Ecdysterone Informal Test

Anabolica is in fact the best ecdysterone product I have used and yes, BAC is a good place to purchase. I’d like to thank Bill Roberts and John Berardi for their insights into the world of research. I can respect the vast amount of resources that must be committed to a project like this, not to mention putting one’s reputation on the line. Valid points were raised concerning what exactly “beta-ecdysone” is. It’s obvious even the best of the best can’t put a finger on it. Makes you wonder if it was by design. I’ve personally used the same product on numerous occassions (Zebutol) and have had 1.) the best results of my life up until that time and 2.) no results at all. We could be dealing with a “spiked” product here, in the case of ZOE at least. I know for a fact their Hexandrolone put my HDL’s in the cellar and the more astute among you know what this probably means. The Anabolica has always been consistent. Here’s the best I can do: Why don’t we have the ultimate skeptic, John B. (don’t take that in a bad way) order up a couple bottles of Anabolica and use at 25mg, 2X/day (total of 50). Personally, I believe he has the integrity to report some positive attributes if he finds any. Remember, if the results are positive OR negative we’ll all benefit as consumers. It sure beats us bickering amongst ourselves. Let’s turn a negative into a positive. J.B., what do you say?

Is this the same as Anabolica from Maxwell Research? I haven’t succeeded in finding
any web pages with both “BAC” and ecdysterone
in them.

I’d be willing to try this at some later point,
some other trials on other things needing
to be done first.

I’d do it after a steroid cycle for the most
demanding test. If I actually make gains
instead of losses (now, this is setting
the bar very high) then obviously I’d endorse
the product strongly. If not, I’ll also try it in some later inbetween-cycles timeframe and see how it looks in that application (a less demanding test.)

Update: Never mind, I’ve since seen that
what you mean by BAC is the beyond-a-century
website, so that solves the question of where
to obtain the particular ecdysterone that
several of you seem to agree has been effective for you.

i think i like the idea… btw i am gonna buy some from BAC finally… just to brag and all, i first reported on the board of “Anabolica” being available there (a lot cheaper than vitanet or wherever the alternative was).

Well, that sounds like a challenge to me! Ok, here’s the story. Im finishing up a 6 week diet phase this week (friday). Ive dropped ~15lbs (mostly fat and obviously some water). After this phase, Im taking about 4 weeks to cycle back up to a more normal calorie intake and energy expenditure (Ive been cycling calories from about 2500 per day all the way down to 1500 per day for the last 2 weeks and have been doing 2 workouts per day for this time as well). So when I finally get myself back to “normal” in terms of eating and training, I could do the experiment. But it wont be for a while since one of the rules of the experiment is to be “weight-stable” for a while. I will guess that my weight will gradually climb back up 10lbs or so within the next 2 months from diet alone. So it wouldnt be an accurate trial of the ecdysterones since my training and my body will be changing anyway. Once I become wt stable again and get my diet back to normal, I wont be opposed to trying the stuff out for 4 weeks. I could take only ecdysterone (BAC’s stuff) and measure body comp and training stuff. Then I could post my results right here. However, if I know the people on this forum, most people will have lost interest by then (it will be at least 3 months from now before I can post the results). So in the interim, anyone else gonna play guinea pig? Also…one question…wanna pitch in for the bottle for me? Im just a poor grad student, ya know!

Oh yea, one more thing…

Im not all that familiar with the types of ecdysterones…

I find one kind of “Anabolica” by maxwell research is 5mg of 5a-hydroxy laxogenin (which they call ecdysterone and recommend 6 tabs a day for 30mg total per day) (on the vitamin express web site). The price is $45 for 180 tabs. Your recommendations are 10 tabs per day for this product?

On the beyond a century site the have this product description:

“NEW! ECD, 20-Hydroxy Ecdysterone (Aka B-ecdysone, isoinokosterone) minimum 50% by HPLC. Total ecdysterone content over 80%. From an extract of Cyanotis vaga. Highly anabolic, increasing lean mass when used with exercise and a high protein diet. Studies also have reported increases of endurance, work capacity, and VO2 Max in athletes. Dose of actual ECD can vary from 10mg 3x/day up to 5mg per kg of bodyweight divided in 3/day. Many stack with methoxyisoflavone, tribulus, and/or ZMA. See *511 Anabolica. 50 grams, $35.00 Code 538.0”…FOR THIS product it’s apparently $35.00 for 50grams!..But this is what you say DOES NOT work?

And then another on the same site:

“ANABOLICA, aka “Mesobolin”, legendary functional analog of ECD (6-keto) formula, is back in higher potency! Much greater effect than any Suma product, it was a former Soviet favorite. Many studies support it increases the rate of protein synthesis without changing cell structure. 30-50% increase in storage of creatine & glycogen in heart muscle. Increases rate of healing and repair. Will not give a false-positive on steroid tests. High anabolic, low androgenic, zero estrogenic for men & women. Increased size, strength, endurance, & recovery. In Russian experiments youthful people experienced an anabolic effect similar to oral anabolic steroids. Older people should stack with tribulus, androstene, ZMA, or otherwise enhance free testosterone. (See also *538 ECD 180 tablets) $18.00 Code 511.0”…Apparently (according to randy’s posts) this is the same as the anabolica by maxwell I listed earlier but this price is 18.00 for 180 tablets. Problem…they dont say what the dose is nor do they tell me the manufacturer! Why is this anabolica about 1/3 of the price of the other?

BTW, for this Beyond a Centry site, why doesnt it say who the manufacturers are for these products?

In addition, mix, you said you used zebutol from zoe. What is this supposed to be? They have an ecdysterone product, but the zebutol is not it and their claim is as follows:

“Zebutol is a concentrated phytochemical derived from a plant called Pfaffia Paniculata. Each tab contains 10mg of the active ingredient Suma Sterol extract. Zebutol is excellent for increasing muscle mass and strength with improved recovery times. Zebutol functions to increase protein synthesis and nitrogen retention while exerting an adaptogenic effect which allows the body to adapt to strenuous exercise and combat fatigue. Many people have reported muscular weight gains between 5 to 15 pounds utilizing a six to eight week cycle of Zebutol.”…the price of this is 100 (10mg) tabs for $70.00

Now, I dont understand the discrepancies between products, prices, etc. When I come up against such ambiguities, it appears to me like companies are trying to hide something. And that reaks of scam to me...

John,

BAC doesn’t have a very well designed web site, but in their paper catalog the Anabolica tabs (the purported “good stuff”) are listed at 5mg each. So, a bottle of 180 would give you .9g for $18.00, quite a bit more expensive than the $35.00 they charge for 50g of the 20-Hydroxy Ecdysterone (the stuff that supposedly “doesn’t work”). There have been enough glowing reports of the Anabolica that I decided to give it a try. Two bottles will be enough for a 4 week experiment at 50mg per day. With as much as I’ve spent on supplements over the years what’s another $36.00?

I could not find any Anabolica and BAC website.

Will Ecdybol by pinnacle be the same efficacious as Anabolica?

The Anabolica from BAC is made by Maxwell Research, is “the one” and yes, I recommend 10 tabs/day. The new ECD product is straight 20-hydroxy and though I haven’t tried this particular product, I find 20HECD to suck compared to Anabolica. Now, as to the cost difference, I don’t know. Could be a number of things. It does illustrate though how confusing it gets with the various kinds of ecdysterones. Zebutol is in fact an ecdysterone based product BUT it is derived from Suma, not cyanotis vaga. Also, I’ve only used Zeb from ZOE Discoveries, not Zoe Labs. Big difference as I understand it. Shaking your head yet? Part of the mystery surrounding this product as you’ll soon see. I want to thank both of you for taking me up on my challenge. Shows me you’re open minded, at least. Thanks again to both Bill/J.B. for at least giving this a chance.

mix, the content of your post is exactly what keeps me sceptical. why, if this stuff was so darn effective, is it so darned hard to get ahold of and to figure out what is what. i’ve seen all sides of this industry and believe me, if these companies or “inventors” really believed in this product, they would be doing this on a grander scale rather than pushing product on poorly designed web sites which are difficult to find and even more difficult to figure out what you are buying when you send your money! who are these companies anyway? (maxwell lab, ZOE whatever). do they have good quality control, etc. i dont know. in addition, why, if the 6 keto versions are so effective, are the bigger companies using the 20 version?

Why are the big companies using straight 20-HECD? I believe the answer is simple: none of them know how to make a quality 6-keto ECD analog. The expertise just isn’t there. And, if this is the case, (I’m speculating here) it just might be that the one’s with the expertise don’t have the venture capital to make a go of it. Who knows? Maybe it’s somebody’s hobby. I believe the main problem with going mainstream is the cost of extraction: highly inefficient extraction procedure being used. Six grams of 96% pure ecdy was obtained from 140kg of lueza seeds which contained 1.4% ecdysterone by weight. Lotta work for a little ecdy. Cyanotis Vaga is cheaper coming in from China, but doesn’t seem to be as good. No surprise EAS is using it, I guess. My thinking is that with only one 6-keto ecdy product available right now, the expertise just isn’t there. A few chemists think it’s “too close”. Can’t be done legally is also a comment I’ve heard. Somebody has done their homework on it though. As recently as 1995 a study showed that ecdysterone (not sure which one) showed significant anabolic effects in elite athletes while increasing their work capacity [Chemical Abstracts 124:261167 Comparative study of the anabolic activity of substances of plant origin: ekdisten, leveton and prime plus). As for ZOE and Maxwell Research, they are no names with labels that would make you laugh. It’s 100% word of mouth with a lot of knockoffs, which is interesting. My personal belief is that every other batch of ZOE stuff is spiked, and they only deal (very quietly) with select outfits like Europa. Remember, the FDA/FTC only fine the big fish. Wish I had more answers for you. I bet a lab test of Anabolica would reveal a lot.

Hey guys, as a scientist (pharmaceutical and nutraceutical research) and an occassional contributor to the T-mag site, I’ll order BAC Anabolika have a DEXA scan done on myself for body comp, log my training, keep my nutrition intake the same (it hardly ever varies - pop tarts for breakfast, McDs for lunch, Carvel for snacks and Pizza Slut for dinner) - okay only kidding about the meals - but I will post my original data and data over a four and six week period for all to review. Sound fair?

Mixleflick- do you have some sort of finacial interest in Anzabolica? Because the whole thing reads like some sort of bad advertisement for their products. Take the challenge… buy $200 worth of crap…

Doug - Appreciate you stepping up. Please make sure to post your results, good or bad. EAG - Nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. If you want to take another 6-keto ECD other than Anabolica, go right ahead. In fact, I want you to find another one, because I’d love to know about it. Like Randy Lane, I scour the net looking for the good stuff, and their ain’t too much good stuff out there. No financial interest on my part. Was just hoping to pass along something I found that worked.

this is for Mixilflick and Randy L.: A few things: the product I got the most from was ZOE both the purple kool-aid tasting tabs batch, and the liquid version… both gave me a muscle pump feeling before I even hit the gym. Questions are,if they are ‘spiked’ what are they likely spiked with? And, what exactly is 5a-hydroxy laxogenin and how does it differ from the ZOE suma based products?

You could call this the Ecydysterone Challenge!1st Place Winners will get a two day trip(on the back of a flat bed truck) for 2 to Milpitas California, second place will get three days, third place gets a week there, ect.
Seriously,I think the Kilo Sports product is far less expensive and your results would be on interest to their head research man Martin McD. I still think that some form of control is needed, meaning do we all train 4 days a week for 1 hour doing cardio and then weight train all body parts with weights? Do we all consume 2500 calories per day? and what about amounts of Ecy? I currently sprinkle it in my shake like big time? Why because the body will pass 95% of this as waiste. Do we have a group that will not use ecy and mimick this program? Your onto a great challenge idea and besides that Milpitas Ca. is beautiful this time of year. Keep me posted. Peace

I want to say a few things here.
Obviously, I happen to think bug hormones,
ALL OF THEM, are total shit and a waste of
time with any effect being merely placebo
(not that this is such a bad thing though).

It seems like there are three chemical entities being discussed here and this whole thing is starting to stink like shit.

Since I design supplements for a living
(as does Bill to a degree) let me say the
following:

If a company is selling it then it obviously
can be sourced commercially.

This “hard to make” and “it’s so rare and
special” line is nonsensical crap.

Why would it be illegal to make this?
I guarantee you this stuff, any of the
three, can be synthesized and obviously
have.

My take on this is that the companies, ZOE in particular, hype this shit as being 'rare and special' and they prey on people who think their dream body is only one supplement bottle away. By marketing in this slick way, they make their customers feel "special" and "really smart".

I mean, think about it?

You have this “rare” (artificially rare)
substance that is a “Russian secret
non-steroidal anabolic”.

OOOOohhhhh, you are too cool and so hip,
ain’t ya? :slight_smile:

You think you’re too smart and slick for
finding it and man, won’t your friends and
guys in the gym be totally impressed with you
when you get jacked, buff and ripped from this,
they’ll think your on gear and then you’ll
tell them about your “Russian secret potion”.

If this is how you think, if this is
your fantasy and dream, then good luck to you,
I don’t view you as a fellow TMAG’er in the
least.

I pity you actually.

The evidence on bug hormones is so thin and specious, I can't believe we are still discussing them here!

If these things worked half as well as claimed,
don’t you think every PWA/HIV’er would be
clamoring to get this stuff?

Don’t you think drug companies all over the
place would be working on this and it’s
synthetic analogs to patent and sell to the
ever growing AIDS market?

Hello?!? Wake up and come back from
Oz!!!

PWA now routinely use anabolics and GH with
a lot of success.

You don’t think a non-androgenic anabolic
would be a Godsend to them?

There is no good research on bug hormones adding one iota of LM to skeletal muscle.

The Russian studies are poorly designed and
the authors have ulterior motives for sure.

When this research is done in the states, UK,
Australia, Israel or any other country that
subscribes to ICH, Belmont Report, and
Declaration of Helsinki standards, I’ll
be quite interested.

And if such research shows this is a benefical
compound(s) then I will eat crow. Gladly.

But until then, I look at bug hormones,
ALL OF THEM, as the latest/greatest
supplement scam.

Now I am sure they are harmless so if someone wants to waste their money on them, go right ahead (better still, send me the money care of TMAG and I will donate it to the Make-A-Wish Foundation).

The desire to have a “secret substance” is
overwhelming and tempting.

Actually, it is beyond that, it is a pride
thing and pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.

And for your pride, you’re going to get ripped
off and make a lot of unscrupulous people
quite wealthy.

Brock

Tim. I can’t answer your questions honestly without guessing,but I bet mixelflick is working on something for you. I have never tried Zoe ecdy,about a year ago I tried to order some but their web was down.

started using the anabolica last friday. I will post my results over the next couple of weeks.