[quote]Jamesliftsheavy wrote:
Just to play devils advocate CT if this is the case then why do you prefer weighted carry’s at the end of the workout? They are isometric in nature regardless of position, and being employed in a fatigued state. If I were to employ your rationale above it would tell me to do them first to recruit my muscles better in my exercises that follow.
Do you do weighted carry’s first? If not, why don’t you? [/quote]
There is a difference in the type of isometric. Carries are submaximal isometrics whereas ring holds are more of the maximal type (most positions can be held for 6-9 seconds at the most).
Maximal isometrics are used to increase motor-unit recruitment.
When it comes to submaximal isometrics the purpose is very different. Maximal isometrics increase muscle fiber recruitment because of the very high force production. But we donâ??t see that force production in submaximal isometrics. So you do not get any additional fiber recruitment.
Submaximal isometrics are used to get an occlusion effect in the target muscle. Occlusion means that the constant contraction of the muscle prevents blood from entering the muscle. This causes a state of hypoxia (lack of oxygen) which releases a lot of growth factor inside the muscle, both because the lack of oxygen and because metabolic trash like lactate stay trapped in the muscle.
So the best time to do submaximal isometrics is actually at the end of the workout to get the release of growth factors and the hormonal response from the metabolic work to enhance the growth stimulated by the rest of the workout.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
So the best time to do submaximal isometrics is actually at the end of the workout to get the release of growth factors and the hormonal response from the metabolic work to enhance the growth stimulated by the rest of the workout.
[/quote]
Will those benefits vanish if one was to do weighted carries in a separate session later in the day after strength work?
In other words: is it better to do them a few hours later or not do them at all, if given no other choice?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
So the best time to do submaximal isometrics is actually at the end of the workout to get the release of growth factors and the hormonal response from the metabolic work to enhance the growth stimulated by the rest of the workout.
[/quote]
Will those benefits vanish if one was to do weighted carries in a separate session later in the day after strength work?
In other words: is it better to do them a few hours later or not do them at all, if given no other choice?
[/quote]
It’s better to do them then not do them
The benefits wlll still be there. You might get slightly more out of them by doing them at the tail end of a workout, but it wont be that significant
Great, thanks! My gym has barely any space to walk 6 feet with dumbbells without bumping into something/somebody, so the only way for me to implement carries is do-it-yourself stuff at home. Good thing that the Internet is full of guides on how to create your own weights…
[quote]SirValeq wrote:
Great, thanks! My gym has barely any space to walk 6 feet with dumbbells without bumping into something/somebody, so the only way for me to implement carries is do-it-yourself stuff at home. Good thing that the Internet is full of guides on how to create your own weights…[/quote]
You might put water bottles/sand bags in a backpack plus hold a 5 Gallons.
Walking in place or using a step raising your knees high at your gym might be an option.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Submaximal isometrics are used to get an occlusion effect in the target muscle. Occlusion means that the constant contraction of the muscle prevents blood from entering the muscle. This causes a state of hypoxia (lack of oxygen) which releases a lot of growth factor inside the muscle, both because the lack of oxygen and because metabolic trash like lactate stay trapped in the muscle.[/quote]
Thanks for explaining that. Not that I was doubting they worked, but I was confused as to why.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Squat day: yoke walk; put the bar on your shoulders and walk
Deadlift day: DB farmer’s walk
[/quote]
To make these a bit more leg intense, what do you think of occluding with knee wraps first?
From a practical standpoint, I figured I oould yoke a decent amount and carrying all the weight out to my alley would get old. But if I occluded, I could get a similar effect with less weight, maybe even around a similar amount I use for the OH loaded carry (probably a bit more though).
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Squat day: yoke walk; put the bar on your shoulders and walk
Deadlift day: DB farmer’s walk
[/quote]
To make these a bit more leg intense, what do you think of occluding with knee wraps first?
From a practical standpoint, I figured I oould yoke a decent amount and carrying all the weight out to my alley would get old. But if I occluded, I could get a similar effect with less weight, maybe even around a similar amount I use for the OH loaded carry (probably a bit more though).[/quote]
You’d have to occlude at the highest point of the quad possible.
BUT keep in mind that for me, loaded carries are used to build hypertrophy in the whole body. For example a farmer’s walk will build the traps, forearms and mid-upper back, bear hug carries or dumbbell chest carries will build the shoulders, arms and chest, the yoke carry will build the traps and core… so if you occlude the legs you might not need the same time under load to get hypertrophy there BUT the other body parts will be short changed.
my gym is an obstacle course. unlike the cityfitness gym i trained at while i was away.
carries with a bar are not doable.
any suggestions for yoke or overhead?
[quote]domcib wrote:
my gym is an obstacle course. unlike the cityfitness gym i trained at while i was away.
carries with a bar are not doable.
any suggestions for yoke or overhead?[/quote]
The overhead you can do hold two DBs overhead, or one DB with two arms
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
You’d have to occlude at the highest point of the quad possible.
BUT keep in mind that for me, loaded carries are used to build hypertrophy in the whole body. For example a farmer’s walk will build the traps, forearms and mid-upper back, bear hug carries or dumbbell chest carries will build the shoulders, arms and chest, the yoke carry will build the traps and core… so if you occlude the legs you might not need the same time under load to get hypertrophy there BUT the other body parts will be short changed.[/quote]
Thanks for the reply, makes sense. I need more upperbody work anyway so I guess I won’t be wrapping.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Squat day: yoke walk; put the bar on your shoulders and walk
Deadlift day: DB farmer’s walk
[/quote]
To make these a bit more leg intense, what do you think of occluding with knee wraps first?
From a practical standpoint, I figured I oould yoke a decent amount and carrying all the weight out to my alley would get old. But if I occluded, I could get a similar effect with less weight, maybe even around a similar amount I use for the OH loaded carry (probably a bit more though).[/quote]
You’d have to occlude at the highest point of the quad possible.
BUT keep in mind that for me, loaded carries are used to build hypertrophy in the whole body. For example a farmer’s walk will build the traps, forearms and mid-upper back, bear hug carries or dumbbell chest carries will build the shoulders, arms and chest, the yoke carry will build the traps and core… so if you occlude the legs you might not need the same time under load to get hypertrophy there BUT the other body parts will be short changed.[/quote]
Let’s say I was going to do a loaded carry with a barbell on my back (yoke walk?). If I set up an empty squat rack in each end of the hall, that would allow me to simply rack the bar, go under it from the other side, get it back on my back and continue the walk back down the hall - rather than having to turn 180 degrees with a heavy barbell on my back. Would I spoil the occlusion effect this way by removing the load for a couple of seconds when I switch direction? (Or am I majoring in the minors right now…)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Squat day: yoke walk; put the bar on your shoulders and walk
Deadlift day: DB farmer’s walk
[/quote]
To make these a bit more leg intense, what do you think of occluding with knee wraps first?
From a practical standpoint, I figured I oould yoke a decent amount and carrying all the weight out to my alley would get old. But if I occluded, I could get a similar effect with less weight, maybe even around a similar amount I use for the OH loaded carry (probably a bit more though).[/quote]
You’d have to occlude at the highest point of the quad possible.
BUT keep in mind that for me, loaded carries are used to build hypertrophy in the whole body. For example a farmer’s walk will build the traps, forearms and mid-upper back, bear hug carries or dumbbell chest carries will build the shoulders, arms and chest, the yoke carry will build the traps and core… so if you occlude the legs you might not need the same time under load to get hypertrophy there BUT the other body parts will be short changed.[/quote]
Let’s say I was going to do a loaded carry with a barbell on my back (yoke walk?). If I set up an empty squat rack in each end of the hall, that would allow me to simply rack the bar, go under it from the other side, get it back on my back and continue the walk back down the hall - rather than having to turn 180 degrees with a heavy barbell on my back. Would I spoil the occlusion effect this way by removing the load for a couple of seconds when I switch direction? (Or am I majoring in the minors right now…)
[/quote]
If you can do that, it’s perfectly fine, don’t worry about it.
Bue: That is exactly how I perform my Overhead Barbell Walks (aka Atlas Walks). I walk up to the rack, drop the barbell down to behind my neck, rack it, turn around, push press it up, and walk again, repeat.
Did the ramp - density - carries setup today, plus 4 sets of ring dips and some abs work at the end. Took 45 min total (so about 35 without dips and abs).
Did slight incline bench from pins (after playing around with and without pins I decided to go with one day slight incline from pins and one day regular bench for a while). Reached a solid 100kg x3 with no grinding.
I definitely liked density work. Did 80kg 5x5 in 5 minutes. On the first set I had 2 left in the tank, on the last the 6th rep would have been a grinder. So I think I approached this right. Next week I’ll be ramping up to a 2RM (this week was 3RM), so I imagine I’ll do a similar number of reps with slightly more weight.
Was quite humbled by the carries - did the KB squeeze variation, 5 sets of 1 min with 1 min breaks. Started conservatively with a 14kg DB and by the end of the last set I had a lot of trouble holding it, even though I expected to go up in weight quickly. The next KB up is 18kg so next time I’m going to do 4 sets with 14kg and up to 18kg for the last one and see how it feels. I think due to the light weight I didn’t get as much of a metabolic hit. I expect a lot more of that on the overhead snatch grip carries (snatch and sghp day) and farmer’s walks (trap bar day).
I was quite surprised that the carries didn’t negatively affect my performance on the dips. In fact I got 1 more rep than last time, getting 10,10,10 and 8 reps across the 4 sets. I think once I hit 4x10 I’ll start focusing more on the stretch at the bottom, then work up to 4x12 and eventually 3x15. Then I might throw in a loaded vest.
Feeling very good, definitely not smashed.
Very good pump at the end.
Looking forward to seeing how this works over the next few weeks but so far I’m pleased. Good performance throughout the session and I don’t need a couple of hours to recover enough to work.
Is there a difference in doing density work for “normal” and eccentric-less (or limited eccentric) exercises? I’m thinking that one could go with more volume on SGHPs or power cleans than on squats or presses. The former are easier to recover from, right?
