[quote]SirValeq wrote:
Is there a difference in doing density work for “normal” and eccentric-less (or limited eccentric) exercises? I’m thinking that one could go with more volume on SGHPs or power cleans than on squats or presses. The former are easier to recover from, right?[/quote]
Not necessarily… the olympic lift variations might be less damaging (less inflammation) but they are a lot more metabolically draining and hit the CNS a lot more too.
I have another question regarding CNS fatigue, inspired by your latest article. We’ve learned that wave-ladders are less taxing on the CNS than ramps and both can be used interchangeably.
Now, could you be so kind and write a bit about how different layer methods (clusters, HDL, density, straight sets, complexes, paused rep sets, jumps etc.) impact the CNS? Maybe just write them down in order from least taxing to most?
I’m asking this, because my experience is already showing me that CNS fatigue is far more important for my progress than any kind of muscular or metabolic fatigue and I don’t want to wade through the different methods blind.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]SirValeq wrote:
Is there a difference in doing density work for “normal” and eccentric-less (or limited eccentric) exercises? I’m thinking that one could go with more volume on SGHPs or power cleans than on squats or presses. The former are easier to recover from, right?[/quote]
Not necessarily… the olympic lift variations might be less damaging (less inflammation) but they are a lot more metabolically draining and hit the CNS a lot more too.[/quote]
Christian: Good day, how many giant cluster reps would you aim for in ten minutes for Snatch-Grip Muscle Snatches @ 80-85% 1RM?
FYI: I am unable to drop the barbell where I am currently training at (no bumper plates and I am using a powerlifting bar)… so I am having to muscle the barbell down on every rep.
[quote]Ricochet wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]SirValeq wrote:
Is there a difference in doing density work for “normal” and eccentric-less (or limited eccentric) exercises? I’m thinking that one could go with more volume on SGHPs or power cleans than on squats or presses. The former are easier to recover from, right?[/quote]
Not necessarily… the olympic lift variations might be less damaging (less inflammation) but they are a lot more metabolically draining and hit the CNS a lot more too.[/quote]
Christian: Good day, how many giant cluster reps would you aim for in ten minutes for Snatch-Grip Muscle Snatches @ 80-85% 1RM?
FYI: I am unable to drop the barbell where I am currently training at (no bumper plates and I am using a powerlifting bar)… so I am having to muscle the barbell down on every rep.[/quote]
If you only do singles (sets of one within the cluster)
10-12 would be average, 12-15 would be decent, 15-20 would be good
CT-
What is your opinion on walking up stairs with a weighted vest/backpack? With the same work/rest as farmer’s carries.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
CT-
What is your opinion on walking up stairs with a weighted vest/backpack? With the same work/rest as farmer’s carries.[/quote]
I do it occasionally but i mix a packpack plus dumbells in my hands. Only a weighted vest/backpack lets our upper body in a vacation/rest mode. My understanding is with some muscles working they get over taxed and tired. By involving more muscles by the time they fatigue the whole body has done more work and it might trigger more muscles growth maybe via some hormones response but for the ways/technicalities i am not sure.
Racing up 8 levels of stairs take me 55 sec. but with dumbells doing shoulders presses at the same time it adds about 25 sec.
Just like marathon runners have small muscles by avoiding fatigue we find ways to reach fatigue to stimulate growth. Think about 10 sets of 10 reps or doing 20 reps with a load we can do 10 with or density work shortening the rest time.
EDIT: i appologize for posting, later i realized that it is a CT thread.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
CT-
What is your opinion on walking up stairs with a weighted vest/backpack? With the same work/rest as farmer’s carries.[/quote]
I used weighted stair climbing a lot with firemen. Good cardio, but the vest is not heavy enough to have “loaded carries effect” and it is not targeting any upper body muscles like the loaded carries are. Because of that, do not use it to build muscle (which is why I’m using loaded carries) or even strength-capacity (not enough weight) but merely as a conditioning tool in which case the work to rest ratio needs to be quite a bit higher.
The overhead carry after wave/density was beyond silly today… 30kg
Got 50 seconds first one - 40,40,30,20,25,30,20 !!
Towards the end I was shaking like a leaf trying to hold it overhead… I love it !
Do you have an SGHP one by chance ? Considering overhead again… just for fun lol.
Training is never boring with this system 
[quote]Voluminous wrote:
The overhead carry after wave/density was beyond silly today… 30kg
Got 50 seconds first one - 40,40,30,20,25,30,20 !!
Towards the end I was shaking like a leaf trying to hold it overhead… I love it !
Do you have an SGHP one by chance ? Considering overhead again… just for fun lol.
Training is never boring with this system :)[/quote]
You can do the overhead carry again or snatch-grip deadlift walk (walk holding the barbell in the finish positiong of a SG deadlift)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Voluminous wrote:
The overhead carry after wave/density was beyond silly today… 30kg
Got 50 seconds first one - 40,40,30,20,25,30,20 !!
Towards the end I was shaking like a leaf trying to hold it overhead… I love it !
Do you have an SGHP one by chance ? Considering overhead again… just for fun lol.
Training is never boring with this system :)[/quote]
You can do the overhead carry again or snatch-grip deadlift walk (walk holding the barbell in the finish positiong of a SG deadlift)
[/quote]
Great, that sounds like something I may actually get one minute from !
Thanks Christian.
[quote]Voluminous wrote:
Training is never boring with this system :)[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more! I’m working on week 3 of the Layer/Complexes routine, loving the results, and looking forward to each day at the gym! Still, I’ve been tracking this thread since it started and I am just as excited about moving on to this in another 3 weeks or so.
Add in the wave ladders variations to the standard ramp, plus the jump squat activation exercises. It’s a blast!
Thanks CT!
This might be splitting hairs, but if CNS is an issue, would reps of 4-8 have an advantage over 1-5 on the big lifts?
Thx!
[quote]ns182 wrote:
This might be splitting hairs, but if CNS is an issue, would reps of 4-8 have an advantage over 1-5 on the big lifts?
Thx![/quote]
There is a huge difference CNS-wise between sets of 1 and 2, like night and day. Sets of 3 are slightly easier than sets of 2 on the CNS. Sets of 4-5 have no real difference with sets of 3 and above 5 reps you do not get the same type of stimulation so you can’t really compare sets of 6 and sets of 2-3.
So do you think there is an ideal rep range for the easy hard gainer? The article said to stay under 8, but CNS fatigue would suggest avoiding heavy singles…
[quote]ns182 wrote:
So do you think there is an ideal rep range for the easy hard gainer? The article said to stay under 8, but CNS fatigue would suggest avoiding heavy singles…[/quote]
Yeah, 2 to 5 is ideal, with occasional work in the 6-8 range on “smaller” exercises
Coach, I have access to a prowler and can load it up as much as I want. Can I incorporate prowler pushes? If yes, what would be the advice if one has
a) strenght goals
b) hyperthrophy goals
(I have the same easy gainer body type btw)
If so, how many min would you suggest? Thanks so much
I have a minor question that’s a bit of a tangent if anyone has thoughts… Todays conventional deadlift is double bodyweight (~90% 1rm) for 3 but I only feel comfortable with that pull if I drop each rep. For hypertrophy, would the eccentric be worth lowering the weight? Also, would trap bar or snatch grip be better for growth than conventional? Thx!
[quote]ns182 wrote:
I have a minor question that’s a bit of a tangent if anyone has thoughts… Todays conventional deadlift is double bodyweight (~90% 1rm) for 3 but I only feel comfortable with that pull if I drop each rep. For hypertrophy, would the eccentric be worth lowering the weight? Also, would trap bar or snatch grip be better for growth than conventional? Thx![/quote]
The 2nd part was basically answered here: No Trap Bar - Christian Thibaudeau Coaching - Forums - T Nation
Trap/DeadSquat bar is best, then snatch grip deadlift with hips low, then conventional.
Personally, with the snatch-grip dead (which is about 80%ish of my conventional), I lower it the same path I bring it up; no dropping. Whether that’s ideal, I don’t know… it’s just what I’ve done up until now.
I can’t find the answer if it’s been posted, so if not doing as a separate workout (instead being done immediately after the performance-based portion) would the number of carries (5 sets of 1 minute, with 1 minute rest) be lowered?
Based on the recent CT article on loaded carries, I’ve been doing 3 sets immediately after workout.