[quote]pflifter wrote:
If you are an athlete and need to build some conditioning into these recommendations where would you work it in and what frequency?[/quote]
It depends of your sport
I tried the kettlebell squeeze press carry today and it pumped my arms and my chest like crazy. I only used a 60 lb kettlebell too. It was more challenging than the bear hug with 2 45s. I gripped the sides of the kettlebell with a full palm grip and did not touch the handles.
Thank you CT.
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
I tried the kettlebell squeeze press carry today and it pumped my arms and my chest like crazy. I only used a 60 lb kettlebell too. It was more challenging than the bear hug with 2 45s. I gripped the sides of the kettlebell with a full palm grip and did not touch the handles.
Thank you CT.[/quote]
Good to hear. I believe that carries, when properly use are the missing link hypertrophy-wise for someone only using big basic lifts.
Thank you. I like this ramp/back off density work pattern. Trying to cluster or HDL continous clean and press is logisticially difficult!
Do you view bench press variations as necessary for physique development? Seems like you and various athletes are improving performance/joint health by avoiding it.
Just wanted to ask from physique perspective, with memories of ibodbuilder days where pressing was king. Maybe various vertical presses and dips combined with DB carries and ring flyes?
@CT - you recommend farmers walk for TBDL days. usually i ramp without wrist straps until grip becomes a limiting factor (~405lbs for me personally). after which point, i continue to use them for the remainder of my layering session. would you recommend using the straps to do the farmers walks after the TBDL or lower the weight to something i can handle gripping for the 1 minute rounds?
[quote]J Moose wrote:
@CT - you recommend farmers walk for TBDL days. usually i ramp without wrist straps until grip becomes a limiting factor (~405lbs for me personally). after which point, i continue to use them for the remainder of my layering session. would you recommend using the straps to do the farmers walks after the TBDL or lower the weight to something i can handle gripping for the 1 minute rounds?[/quote]
Really it depends… I’ll say a blasphemy by saying that it’s fine to do farmer’s walk with straps if hypertrophy is your most important goal. If it allows you to use 50 or so more pounds, it’s worth it since it will overload the muscles more.
Now, if you are an athlete in a sports where grip strength is important I would obviously recommend against using straps.
How would you incorporate carries into a session if only one session per day is done? Would doing:
- Ramp
- Clusters
- HDL
- Carries
be a bit too much in a hypertrophy focused cycle?
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Thank you. I like this ramp/back off density work pattern. Trying to cluster or HDL continous clean and press is logisticially difficult!
Do you view bench press variations as necessary for physique development? Seems like you and various athletes are improving performance/joint health by avoiding it.
Just wanted to ask from physique perspective, with memories of ibodbuilder days where pressing was king. Maybe various vertical presses and dips combined with DB carries and ring flyes?
[/quote]
Vince Gironda, the first bodybuilding guru and trainer of the first Mr.Olympia was against the bench press and he built some great physiques using dips as the primary pressing movement. So it is certainly possible to do it.
I personally like the bench press, just because I’m not doing it right now doesn’t mean that I don’t like it. To maximize olympic lifting performance I must actually lose some chest mass which is why I avoid horizontal pressing.
PERSONALLY (and with my clients) if I were preparing for a physique contest (bodybuilding or physique) I would have the bench press as one of my main movements. But it is possible to build a complete physique without it. Especially in your case since chest seems to be a strong point.
Dips and ring drips are fantastic exercises and give a very good look to the chest. But I personally do not like ring flies, I find them really hard on the elbow and shoulder joints for what they give you.
[quote]BiP wrote:
How would you incorporate carries into a session if only one session per day is done? Would doing:
- Ramp
- Clusters
- HDL
- Carries
be a bit too much in a hypertrophy focused cycle?[/quote]
Carries fill the hypertrophy gap… so I would actually recommend dropping the HDL section if doing carries. But even better is the answer I gave Sigil about doing a ramp, then density work (I give several examples), then you would do carries.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]BiP wrote:
How would you incorporate carries into a session if only one session per day is done? Would doing:
- Ramp
- Clusters
- HDL
- Carries
be a bit too much in a hypertrophy focused cycle?[/quote]
Carries fill the hypertrophy gap… so I would actually recommend dropping the HDL section if doing carries. But even better is the answer I gave Sigil about doing a ramp, then density work (I give several examples), then you would do carries.[/quote]
Thanks, I’ll give the ramp-density-carries version a try. I definitely like the idea of the added metabolic effect from the carries.
@CT is it common for people to improve their shoulder health from carries? I am finding my shoulders feel healthier as a result of carries.
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
@CT is it common for people to improve their shoulder health from carries? I am finding my shoulders feel healthier as a result of carries.[/quote]
Obviously since they involve a lot of the muscles involved in stabilizing and moving the scapula.
Another quick question coach:
Is there a need to periodize carries and density work? For example:
Week 1:
Ramp 3RM
Density as in the post above
Carries 5 sets 1min each
Week 2:
Ramp 2RM
Density as in the post above
Carries 5 sets 1min each
Week 3:
Ramp 1RM
Density as in the post above
Carries 5 sets 1min each
Week 4:
Ramp 1RM
Density for 2/3 duration or total reps, but going for higher density than before
Carries 3 sets 1 min each
Then repeat the cycle with a different density approach.
Or perhaps even going 3 sets, 4 sets, 5 sets, 3 sets for carries?
CT-
What would you recommend for progression in the carries?
Do you favor increasing the weight and keeping the time the same, or increasing the length of time first before increasing weight?
CT,
Could I incorporate loaded carries to Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 Boring But Big? Or would that detract from my training?
@blanka, Jim gives some advice in this article,
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/blood_and_chalk_volume_10&cr=
CT- any general recommendations for someone who enjoys including ring work and fits the profile of an easy hard gainer, with regard to frequency and “sets” etc
I am focused on performance and also do carries.
Thanks for any advice
Curious if you’re doing ring work for sports/joint-health or aesthetics. I share your interest in it (more like I was obsessed) and have done entire upper body workouts off rings and bodyweight.
My observations, maybe CT can confirm:
- Ring training is fun. I did various holds, dynamic exercises daily but after a week things got “stale”.
- Improved athleticism and upper body mobility. Just felt more flexible, “compact”, agile and badass BUT I acutally found my muscles getting smaller. Sure while doing iron cross my upper body looked amazingly shredded but when “unpumped” I started looking like a lean swimmer (no fullness).
- When done excessively AFTER CT"s layer program, joint issues came up in a few days and I want to say “overtraining”: muscles weren’t growing and I felt like I was doing excessive volume.
- For pure aesthetics, barbell ramping up / back off density work ala “layer” is king. But I did so much ring work which definitely helped upper body (paritcularly lat width and biceps, maybe upper pec?) so I can’t say 100% which method is superior for aesthetics…
The problem with rings, and it’s the same thing with all isometric exercises, is that people do WAY too much of them. Keep in mind that I’m talking about ring holds here (front and back levers, L-sit, german hang, iron cross work, etc.) not regular movements done on rings (chins, rows, push-ups, etc.).
The purpose of holds/isometrics is to increase muscle fiber recruitment. NOT to fatigue those fibers. When done over time this will increase your neural efficiency at recruiting more fibers and you will integrate them in regular lifting movements, making them more effective.
An acutely, doing a few holds can turn on more fibers and they stay sensitized to being recruited for a certain period of time, so doing strength work right after a few holds will also enhance your results.
BUT if you do so much holding that the muscles are tired and your performance on the lifting exercises is negatively affected then you are doing a lot more harm than good.
And doing holds at the end of the session is a bad idea because you would basically be using a hammer to paint the house (using holds to fatigue the muscles, not improve recruitment).
The smart way to use holds is at the beginning of a workout to prime more muscle fibers. But you need a very low volume to get the effect, and doing more volume will not give you more results and will easily hurt your gains instead of helping.
Just to play devils advocate CT if this is the case then why do you prefer weighted carry’s at the end of the workout? They are isometric in nature regardless of position, and being employed in a fatigued state. If I were to employ your rationale above it would tell me to do them first to recruit my muscles better in my exercises that follow.
Do you do weighted carry’s first? If not, why don’t you?