[quote]JayPierce wrote:
To elaborate on what I was having trouble conveying earlier:
Use a weight that you can’t row from a dead stop. Use some leg drive or body english to get the weight moving. Try to hold the weight in the top position (you shouldn’t be able to, though). Then on the eccentric, again try to stop the weight from pulling your shoulder blades forward… try to dead-stop it with the scaps retracted.
If you ramp your sets, use strict form as much as you can (the first few sets), then graduate toward the ‘sloppy’ form above. You’ll get the best of both worlds. I tend to use strict rows as a warm-up (along with face pulls) then hammer as much weight as possible for low reps without sacrificing my spine, and without raising up out of the rowing position.[/quote]
I’d second this. Working the muscle in different ways ie. slow, strict reps, rest pauses, negatives and explosive reps is probably the best way, then after having tried all the different methods you should be able to find out which one works best for you. I find holding the contraction at the top of the rep with seated low rows really hits my rombhoids but we’re all differnt.
@ebomb, my 1 rep max for deadlift is hovering around 485 right now, although I will admit I really don’t do deadlifts that often. I rack pull with much greater frequency just for the whole retraction/upper back stabilization bit. I’m going really heavy on the rack pulls, up to 545 if I’m feeling up to it.
To everyone else, the advice is really appreciated, i’ll take it all into account and change it around.
dante has a protocol he uses for guys that have trouble building thickness. if i remember correctly, set up on a chest supported row. do a rep, hold the contraction for 3 seconds, do a half rep and hold the contraction for 3 seconds. that counts as 1 rep. apparently it does the trick.
[quote]DaBeard wrote:
I also don’t add weight unless I know form is still perfect, when it comes to back I never sacrifice form.
[/quote]
Hate to say it, but this might be your problem. Try getting a little ‘loose’ with your form and throw some extra weight on the bar. Don’t let the weight snatch you down at the bottom, but a little momentum and ‘bounce’ can be a good thing.
I’ll try to think of a better way to explain and maybe post some vids later. It’s go time.[/quote]
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.
I think i’ll try to incorporate heavy with looser form and stay strict with form when i’m working on the “feel” of the muscle. I got so much more response than I anticipated, thanks all.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.[/quote]
I definitely think that manhandling big weight is the way to build slabs. There are a ton of huge men out there who “learned the value of perfect form” later in their careers, but very few who used perfect form from the very beginning.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.[/quote]
I definitely think that manhandling big weight is the way to build slabs. There are a ton of huge men out there who “learned the value of perfect form” later in their careers, but very few who used perfect form from the very beginning.
[/quote]
[photo]32882[/photo]
excuse the post but I haven’t seen my back well before…but mine was initially built just trying to get the weight moving with “decent” form. I am sure form nazis would have called me out plenty of times…but they’re still smaller.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.[/quote]
I definitely think that manhandling big weight is the way to build slabs. There are a ton of huge men out there who “learned the value of perfect form” later in their careers, but very few who used perfect form from the very beginning.
[/quote]
[photo]32882[/photo]
excuse the post but I haven’t seen my back well before…but mine was initially built just trying to get the weight moving with “decent” form. I am sure form nazis would have called me out plenty of times…but they’re still smaller.[/quote]
Backs looking awesome. I guess loose form does work :-P.
I don’t think you can build a big back without utilizing a good deal of movements with looser form…but OP seems to get that now.
The only reason I started using strict form in the first place because I initially wasn’t so strict and realized that mid back wasn’t getting thick. I realized I could be pretty sloppy and lats would just grow nicely, that was the only reason. I will be changing my game plan now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.[/quote]
I definitely think that manhandling big weight is the way to build slabs. There are a ton of huge men out there who “learned the value of perfect form” later in their careers, but very few who used perfect form from the very beginning.
[/quote]
[photo]32882[/photo]
excuse the post but I haven’t seen my back well before…but mine was initially built just trying to get the weight moving with “decent” form. I am sure form nazis would have called me out plenty of times…but they’re still smaller.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just now working on “perfect form”…but that is mostly because I am dropping weight and still using weights that are significantly heavy. Much looser form is what got to those weights in the first place…within reason.[/quote]
I definitely think that manhandling big weight is the way to build slabs. There are a ton of huge men out there who “learned the value of perfect form” later in their careers, but very few who used perfect form from the very beginning.
[/quote]
[photo]32882[/photo]
excuse the post but I haven’t seen my back well before…but mine was initially built just trying to get the weight moving with “decent” form. I am sure form nazis would have called me out plenty of times…but they’re still smaller.[/quote]
Dude, how big are your arms? Your back fucking dwarfs them!
[quote]DaBeard wrote:
I will admit I really don’t do deadlifts that often. I rack pull with much greater frequency just for the whole retraction/upper back stabilization bit. I’m going really heavy on the rack pulls, up to 545 if I’m feeling up to it.
[/quote]
Take these exercises:
Rack pull 2" below knees
Krok Row
Floor deadlift
Train your back twice a week using ONE of these exercises every workout. Do it first in your back session. Train in a medium rep range (8-15 reps). Train to failure. If you can get the required rep range for the workout, add 10 lbs the next week until you are failing at the prescribed rep range, then add weight as you can every workout. Sto with the “perfect form” shit. Get violent with the weights. Focus on progression. Do whatever you want to for the rest of your back work on those days. There is no way your back won’t blow up like a balloon in 6 months.[/quote]
x 2 on this big time.
If you progress weekly on these three exercises, there is no way you won’t gain thickness.
[quote]DaBeard wrote:
I will admit I really don’t do deadlifts that often. I rack pull with much greater frequency just for the whole retraction/upper back stabilization bit. I’m going really heavy on the rack pulls, up to 545 if I’m feeling up to it.
[/quote]
Take these exercises:
Rack pull 2" below knees
Krok Row
Floor deadlift
Train your back twice a week using ONE of these exercises every workout. Do it first in your back session. Train in a medium rep range (8-15 reps). Train to failure. If you can get the required rep range for the workout, add 10 lbs the next week until you are failing at the prescribed rep range, then add weight as you can every workout. Sto with the “perfect form” shit. Get violent with the weights. Focus on progression. Do whatever you want to for the rest of your back work on those days. There is no way your back won’t blow up like a balloon in 6 months.[/quote]
x 2 on this big time.
If you progress weekly on these three exercises, there is no way you won’t gain thickness. [/quote]
?
You could say the same about:
T-bar rows
heavy lat pull downs
heavy dumbbell or barbell rows
One thing I have found to be more important than anything is consistency and increasing the weight used along with getting to the point where you can hold that heavier weight briefly at peak contraction.
You guys will have to excuse me for not jumping on the rack pull bandwagon seeing as I just don’t see the huge backs on most of the people ranting about it (aside from Modok of course).
[quote]DaBeard wrote:
I will admit I really don’t do deadlifts that often. I rack pull with much greater frequency just for the whole retraction/upper back stabilization bit. I’m going really heavy on the rack pulls, up to 545 if I’m feeling up to it.
[/quote]
Take these exercises:
Rack pull 2" below knees
Krok Row
Floor deadlift
Train your back twice a week using ONE of these exercises every workout. Do it first in your back session. Train in a medium rep range (8-15 reps). Train to failure. If you can get the required rep range for the workout, add 10 lbs the next week until you are failing at the prescribed rep range, then add weight as you can every workout. Sto with the “perfect form” shit. Get violent with the weights. Focus on progression. Do whatever you want to for the rest of your back work on those days. There is no way your back won’t blow up like a balloon in 6 months.[/quote]
x 2 on this big time.
If you progress weekly on these three exercises, there is no way you won’t gain thickness. [/quote]
?
You could say the same about:
T-bar rows
heavy lat pull downs
heavy dumbbell or barbell rows
One thing I have found to be more important than anything is consistency and increasing the weight used along with getting to the point where you can hold that heavier weight briefly at peak contraction.
You guys will have to excuse me for not jumping on the rack pull bandwagon seeing as I just don’t see the huge backs on most of the people ranting about it (aside from Modok of course). [/quote]
These exercises are also fantastic…I think what Modok was getting at was just doing one of these compound exercises weekly and improving on them…these would certainly work too.
Lately I’ve been enjoying doing ultra wide neutral grip seated rows with the bar where the handles are spaced like 3+ feet apart. It’s impossible to let lats take over on it, pretty much all upper back. This seems like an exercise that would be especially good for someone in OP’s position with weak upper back development compared to lats. It should help a lot with developing mind muscle connection to the mid traps/rhomboids, making the subsequent upper back exercise/s more effective.
Don’t get me wrong, it is great that you posted a video. However, personal experience means way more to me than words and name drops. That tends to keep the 120lber’s from acting like they know more than guys with lats as big as their entire bodies.
@Modok: I will definitely begin to use your advice @KingBeef: I feel like a douche for never trying that bar, it will gauranteed take most of the lats out of the equation.