[quote]sufiandy wrote:
zraw, I think I understand your question a bit more than others here. While I may not personally approve of what they are doing I don’t think there is a problem with it. Is this correct?
Person 1
Goal: Get from A to B
Uses steroids to get there quickly
Person 2
Goal: Get from A to C
Uses steroids to get from A to B, then B to C
Are you basically asking about Person 1 and not Person 2? I’ve heard a few times that steroids will only help you get you to the next level, whatever that may be.[/quote]
[quote]zraw wrote:
If a guy doesnt want to put in the work and time he’d need to in order to reach is goal but has access to a tool that could help him (make him) achieve his goal what is wrong with doing just that?
(This isnt me saying that said guy should)[/quote]
So do you think the guy should? Why or why not?
As I wrote, I don’t give a shit what the guy does, but I certainly wouldn’t advise him to take that path, for reasons already stated.
I can print out a copy of a painting and hang wonderful artwork on my wall. Or I could learn practice and paint (probably not as nice) artwork and hang that up. Both get you from point A to point B, so why would you ever paint? The printer is just a tool…
If we are really talking about just the destination, why not synthol from day 1? Why diet when you can liposuction?
To some of us, the journey means something and missing it is stupid.
Zraw, do you get upset with guys that use synthol or implants or other surgery to look better than you?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I can print out a copy of a painting and hang wonderful artwork on my wall. Or I could learn practice and paint (probably not as nice) artwork and hang that up. Both get you from point A to point B, so why would you ever paint? The printer is just a tool…
If we are really talking about just the destination, why not synthol from day 1? Why diet when you can liposuction?
To some of us, the journey means something and missing it is stupid.
Zraw, do you get upset with guys that use synthol or implants or other surgery to look better than you?[/quote]
I dont get upset at anyone looking better than me… maybe I would if it was my job to do cover modeling but its not
[quote]zraw wrote:
If a guy doesnt want to put in the work and time he’d need to in order to reach is goal but has access to a tool that could help him (make him) achieve his goal what is wrong with doing just that?
(This isnt me saying that said guy should)[/quote]
So do you think the guy should? Why or why not?
As I wrote, I don’t give a shit what the guy does, but I certainly wouldn’t advise him to take that path, for reasons already stated. [/quote]
I honestly didnt read the thread… should he or shouldnt he depends on his short term goals, long term goals, and expectations, imo
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I can print out a copy of a painting and hang wonderful artwork on my wall. Or I could learn practice and paint (probably not as nice) artwork and hang that up. Both get you from point A to point B, so why would you ever paint? The printer is just a tool…
If we are really talking about just the destination, why not synthol from day 1? Why diet when you can liposuction?
To some of us, the journey means something and missing it is stupid.
Zraw, do you get upset with guys that use synthol or implants or other surgery to look better than you?[/quote]
I dont get upset at anyone looking better than me… maybe I would if it was my job to do cover modeling but its not[/quote]
What is your stance on SEO/Surgery/Implants? Do you do any of that?
I don’t give a fuck whether someone uses or doesn’t.
But I don’t respect someone who totally deflates after cleaning house.
It’s expected that you shrink some (or even quite some), but to go from hero to flabby and tiny zero in a matter of few weeks just screams “You’re an idiot and don’t know the first thing about training and nutrition.”
Hence: use, but be honest (kudos to Mr.Walkway) to yourself and be prepared to live with the consequences. In other words: account for your actions.
Having said that, I’d like for a user to have a good foundation regarding strength, training, nutrition and some useful experience with how his body reacts to certain stimuli (<-- obviously, this is a big bag of system parameters and responses necessitating enough personal in-the-trenches knowledge) before he starts using. From what I’ve read, heard and gathered thus far, you don’t know how your body will react to certain drugs (not counting the risk of contaminated U Lab product), so that’s a parameter you can’t control. Why not go into this unknown with validated information about your own body to minimize the risk-reward ratio?
personally I hope they get really bad side effects.
I am tired of working hard only to see a bunch of retards who don’t know the first thing about bb’ing cycle all year long and get the physiques they want.
Every natty hates assisted lifters especially newbie lifters, I don’t care what they say on here to maintain their forum image.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I can print out a copy of a painting and hang wonderful artwork on my wall. Or I could learn practice and paint (probably not as nice) artwork and hang that up. Both get you from point A to point B, so why would you ever paint? The printer is just a tool…
If we are really talking about just the destination, why not synthol from day 1? Why diet when you can liposuction?
To some of us, the journey means something and missing it is stupid.
Zraw, do you get upset with guys that use synthol or implants or other surgery to look better than you?[/quote]
I dont get upset at anyone looking better than me… maybe I would if it was my job to do cover modeling but its not[/quote]
What is your stance on SEO/Surgery/Implants? Do you do any of that?[/quote]
Dont use
Dont care for it
Think if your making a living out of bbing and it could help you improve ur physique not using would be dumb
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I can print out a copy of a painting and hang wonderful artwork on my wall. Or I could learn practice and paint (probably not as nice) artwork and hang that up. Both get you from point A to point B, so why would you ever paint? The printer is just a tool…
If we are really talking about just the destination, why not synthol from day 1? Why diet when you can liposuction?
To some of us, the journey means something and missing it is stupid.
Zraw, do you get upset with guys that use synthol or implants or other surgery to look better than you?[/quote]
Are steroid users “missing the journey”? I feel like this is a huge misconception. I’ll echo what others have mentioned. Serious bodybuilders who use are still reaping all the benefits of the journey. They just happen to get better results to go along with it. If 2 trainees train hard every day, eat right, etc, but one is natty and one isn’t, what’s the difference in the journey? Results and that’s it.
FTR, the only reason I don’t use is the legality factor. As hard as it is to get caught, I still can’t bring myself to take that risk. And money too I guess, but that’s secondary.
As to ZRAW’s original question. My opinion is that if a person’s done the proper research and knows how to safely use AAS, they should go for it. What I often see on message boards (like ones here) is poor education. That’s when I think young guys/ new trainees should tap the brakes. They post ridiculous protocols, no PCT, really weird amounts/combinations, etc. This, in my opinion, is where the bigger problem lies.
[quote]zraw wrote:
What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really “earn” your body? Is that.the prpblem?[/quote]
From the OP, just so we’re all on the same page. [/quote]
I believe that anybody needs about 2 years in order to learn the basics on nutrition,training and steroids. So, the first two years of his training he should just experiment with training methods and nutrition, while learning as much as he can on steroids. Then, whenever he feels he is ready, he can jump on the juice, just so his money does not go down the toilet.
But, if someone wants to start steroids since day one in the gym, it is none of my business, but I sure as hell won’t help him, because if anything goes wrong, he is going to blame me. Besides that, he is going to always going to ask me anything that comes to mind about this or that, since he has done no reserch on his own.[/quote]
I think this ^ sums it up nicely
Zraw, I would be interested to know your personal opinion on the point in question and if this was the case for you?
[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
personally I hope they get really bad side effects.
I am tired of working hard only to see a bunch of retards who don’t know the first thing about bb’ing cycle all year long and get the physiques they want.
Every natty hates assisted lifters especially newbie lifters, I don’t care what they say on here to maintain their forum image. [/quote]
^this is false. and you’re jealous. ‘Every natty hates assisted lifters?’ No man, they don’t. You’re projecting your own feelings on other people because you can’t imagine that other people are different from you. I truly don’t care how other people get to their goals. It’s none of my business if some other dude in the gym is using. I couldn’t give less of a fuck about it.
Forum image is nothing. Forum thirst is everything. Obey your forum thirst.
If I drive 2000 miles to get there and you find a shortcut and only have to drive 200 miles, you had to miss something.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s a good analogy. Again, both trainees in my scenario are doing the same shit in the gym. To me, it’s more like the difference between driving that 2000 miles in a ford escort versus doing it in a BMW convertible. Same distance traveled (same time put into training), but you’re getting more out of the ride in the BMW.
If I drive 2000 miles to get there and you find a shortcut and only have to drive 200 miles, you had to miss something.[/quote]
This analogy is invalid: the 200 miles shortcut could be much steeper, pose more risks and provide other obstacles and experiences not present on the 2000 mile track and thus easily missed, too.
If I drive 2000 miles to get there and you find a shortcut and only have to drive 200 miles, you had to miss something.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s a good analogy. Again, both trainees in my scenario are doing the same shit in the gym. To me, it’s more like the difference between driving that 2000 miles in a ford escort versus doing it in a BMW convertible. Same distance traveled (same time put into training), but you’re getting more out of the ride in the BMW.[/quote]
Your analogy doesn’t hold. you have the same body at the start and end.
You could compare it to driving faster, but you still miss shit.
If I drive 2000 miles to get there and you find a shortcut and only have to drive 200 miles, you had to miss something.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s a good analogy. Again, both trainees in my scenario are doing the same shit in the gym. To me, it’s more like the difference between driving that 2000 miles in a ford escort versus doing it in a BMW convertible. Same distance traveled (same time put into training), but you’re getting more out of the ride in the BMW.[/quote]
Your analogy doesn’t hold. you have the same body at the start and end.
You could compare it to driving faster, but you still miss shit. [/quote]
I thought about the driving faster analogy too, lol. I kinda don’t hate that one. Driving fast is an experience in and of itself, and there are plenty of people who dig that more than driving slow and ‘taking it all in’ or whatever. So it ends up being a personal preference for what you want to experience.
But I still want my analogy to work, so I’ll change it a lil bit. How about using examples of a stock 3 series BMW versus a modified M3? You’ve juiced up (see what I did there) the base model, but it’s still the same car essentially… you’ve just done some things to it to improve the driving experience. Is that better?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
But I still want my analogy to work, so I’ll change it a lil bit. How about using examples of a stock 3 series BMW versus a modified M3? You’ve juiced up (see what I did there) the base model, but it’s still the same car essentially… you’ve just done some things to it to improve the driving experience. Is that better?[/quote]
[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
Every natty hates assisted lifters especially newbie lifters, I don’t care what they say on here to maintain their forum image. [/quote]
I’m glad I wasn’t eating or drinking anything while reading this post