Early Gear Use to Reach Goals

Training
202

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally.

203

What I don’t get is the attitude towards steroids by people who spend hundreds of dollars on kitchen sink supplements that do sweet fuck all really.

So… you’re demonizing someone for using a substance that will help them achieve their goals faster, yet you’re NOT trying to the exact same thing by using all those supplements?

What do you buy them for then, shits and giggles?

204

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
What I don’t get is the attitude towards steroids by people who spend hundreds of dollars on kitchen sink supplements that do sweet fuck all really.

So… you’re demonizing someone for using a substance that will help them achieve their goals faster, yet you’re NOT trying to the exact same thing by using all those supplements?

What do you buy them for then, shits and giggles?[/quote]

Totally agree with u here. The stigma against AAS is pretty pathetic.

205

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally. [/quote]

http://physiqueconsultant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/384237_370817476331124_1058178042_n1.jpg

This guy is 6’2 and is stage ready at abut 188lbs. google jamie alderton

206

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
What I don’t get is the attitude towards steroids by people who spend hundreds of dollars on kitchen sink supplements that do sweet fuck all really.

So… you’re demonizing someone for using a substance that will help them achieve their goals faster, yet you’re NOT trying to the exact same thing by using all those supplements?

What do you buy them for then, shits and giggles?[/quote]

I agree with you on this. The only difference is that when you use gear, you better know what you’re doing. Using OTC supplements takes all the education out of taking something because it is not dangerous if you fuck it up.

Shit, I remember in high school, I had to hide the fact that I was taking creatine because high schoolers are fucking idiots.

207

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
What I don’t get is the attitude towards steroids by people who spend hundreds of dollars on kitchen sink supplements that do sweet fuck all really.

So… you’re demonizing someone for using a substance that will help them achieve their goals faster, yet you’re NOT trying to the exact same thing by using all those supplements?

What do you buy them for then, shits and giggles?[/quote]

I agree with you on this. The only difference is that when you use gear, you better know what you’re doing. Using OTC supplements takes all the education out of taking something because it is not dangerous if you fuck it up.

Shit, I remember in high school, I had to hide the fact that I was taking creatine because high schoolers are fucking idiots. [/quote]

isnt the supplement industry in the U.S un policed? The fda has to prove its dangerous not that it isn’t. So u could be taking any shit. Especially over there.

208

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
I don’t see the huge deal outside the legal risks. The majority of awesome looking people use lol, and it’s not like some simple cycles carry near the legal/health/financial burdens that IFBB pro type cycles do. Regardless, it’s everyone’s individual decision and I’m sure there will be criticisms for everyone on the spectrum of natty to assisted.

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

See Myosin’s conjecture about probable (this is speculation) underreporting of negative effects associated with people who make mistakes.

I mean, let’s not sh** ourselves: this stuff is far more complex than most even in this (relatively well-informed) thread want to admit. As someone who has had to seek TRT due to a head injury I sustained as a teenager, I can tell you that most endocrinologiests do not really appreciate the full effects of manipulating hormones just to establish normalcy, much less to do so in dosages that go far beyond what has been meticulously medically studied.

If you get a bad supply or screw up your injection protocol in certain ways, that can be something that is simply a problem you’re going to have to deal with going forward.

Which is not to say that anyone should or should not do it; instead, my point is simply that to pretend like there are no physiological risks goes beyond silly and into the realm of reckless. When I read Walkway’s posts, at least I see that he understands the choices he’s making, putting aside whether I think he’s old enough to be making those decisions. But if you go on a steroid board, there are some stupid f-ing people screwing around with these things, god forbid that they do something that has consequences for themselves and their families in the longer term.[/quote]
I’m not even an intermediate trainee right now so I can still make gains quickly even though the only supplement I take is a women’s multi lol. When I do start using, like walkaway I’ll be damn sure that I’m willing to make the commitment and deal with the whatever comes with using. It’s funny when people make claims that you must be 30+ years old and have placed top in natural bb competitions lol, but it’s sad and stupid to see young guys messing themselves up. There was a guy my age in the gym who blew up huge before he even hit 20, but doesn’t train at all or look like he lifts now because his elbows are so achy.

209

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally. [/quote]

http://physiqueconsultant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/384237_370817476331124_1058178042_n1.jpg

This guy is 6’2 and is stage ready at abut 188lbs. google jamie alderton[/quote]

Appreciate that man. Had no idea about him. Looks pretty natty to me.

Regardless, it’s still pretty rare, and I guess I wonder if my goals are realistic natty. So inevitably I look at AAS.

But then again, I’m 21, and I’ve yet to ever sip anything alcoholic or smoke anything. So I doubt any type of performance enhancer is WAY in the future lol

210

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally. [/quote]

http://physiqueconsultant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/384237_370817476331124_1058178042_n1.jpg

This guy is 6’2 and is stage ready at abut 188lbs. google jamie alderton[/quote]

Appreciate that man. Had no idea about him. Looks pretty natty to me.

Regardless, it’s still pretty rare, and I guess I wonder if my goals are realistic natty. So inevitably I look at AAS.

But then again, I’m 21, and I’ve yet to ever sip anything alcoholic or smoke anything. So I doubt any type of performance enhancer is WAY in the future lol
[/quote]

Ye he’s natty competes in the Uk natural scene. just won Mr Eurpoe for physique. Normally walks around at about 210 with abs.

211

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
What I don’t get is the attitude towards steroids by people who spend hundreds of dollars on kitchen sink supplements that do sweet fuck all really.

So… you’re demonizing someone for using a substance that will help them achieve their goals faster, yet you’re NOT trying to the exact same thing by using all those supplements?

What do you buy them for then, shits and giggles?[/quote]

I agree with you on this. The only difference is that when you use gear, you better know what you’re doing. Using OTC supplements takes all the education out of taking something because it is not dangerous if you fuck it up.

Shit, I remember in high school, I had to hide the fact that I was taking creatine because high schoolers are fucking idiots. [/quote]

isnt the supplement industry in the U.S un policed? The fda has to prove its dangerous not that it isn’t. So u could be taking any shit. Especially over there.
[/quote]

Yeah, there are not any regulations for supplements. I’m guessing they have to pass health inspections though? Either way, the FDA approves horrible pharmaceutical drugs all the time that get recalled from causing rather unpleasant deaths.

EDIT: In regards to the original topic, I don;t see a problem with using “early”, which in itself is a very vague definition. As long as your diet, training and recovery are on par and you have a decent training age (Multiple years of consistent lifting), I don’t see why one wouldn’t want to do research and learn more about the topic.

A low dose of T will do little/no harm for the benefits you get from it.

212

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally. [/quote]

http://physiqueconsultant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/384237_370817476331124_1058178042_n1.jpg

This guy is 6’2 and is stage ready at abut 188lbs. google jamie alderton[/quote]

Appreciate that man. Had no idea about him. Looks pretty natty to me.

Regardless, it’s still pretty rare, and I guess I wonder if my goals are realistic natty. So inevitably I look at AAS.

But then again, I’m 21, and I’ve yet to ever sip anything alcoholic or smoke anything. So I doubt any type of performance enhancer is WAY in the future lol
[/quote]

you look good Spidey man, you’ll get there. Think about how you’ll look in 5 years.

But seriously, have a drink and a smoke every now and then. Not too much, but do some experiementing. Life’s too short and you’re only young once :slight_smile:

213

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

edit: also for me, height is a factor. I don’t see many tall natural bodybuilders looking very massive[/quote]

Yeah, that’s an issue for me as well. Dude recently put up a pic of being about my height, and weighing, I forgot, 220-230? Looked good, but not AMAZING (no offense to that dude btw, still looked great).

At only 195 lbs now, I already eat 3500 kcal. While that’s not hard, realizing I’d have to be roughly another 50 lbs to look ‘big’ means my caloric needs would also be pretty substantial. And being 240~, even being 6’2", while being relatively lean doesn’t seem like something I see often with Natty BB’ing.

So though I have a lot of natural gains to make before I’d ever ‘top’ out, I wonder how plausible it is that I could even get to an impressive level (for a BB/Physique standards) naturally. [/quote]

http://physiqueconsultant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/384237_370817476331124_1058178042_n1.jpg

This guy is 6’2 and is stage ready at abut 188lbs. google jamie alderton[/quote]

Appreciate that man. Had no idea about him. Looks pretty natty to me.

Regardless, it’s still pretty rare, and I guess I wonder if my goals are realistic natty. So inevitably I look at AAS.

But then again, I’m 21, and I’ve yet to ever sip anything alcoholic or smoke anything. So I doubt any type of performance enhancer is WAY in the future lol
[/quote]

you look good Spidey man, you’ll get there. Think about how you’ll look in 5 years.

But seriously, have a drink and a smoke every now and then. Not too much, but do some experiementing. Life’s too short and you’re only young once :slight_smile:
[/quote]

this is bad advice spidey… my friends who do rec drugs (and have come out of them) warn me to NEVER touch them… (not that i would)

ive never smoked weed, and i havent drank in almost 8 years (never going to drink again)

if you are going to do any “drugs”, do steroids… u will thank me later

u will not regret passing up the “party scene”… they are complete losers, the blight of our generation

214

ehh… I believe the “party” argument is subjective, much like the gear use. It is also all goal dependent (recognizing alcohol consumption may impair gains, as well as quality of life later on).

Now i do not believe anyone above the age of say… 25 should be going out and partying on a regular basis. Thats irresponsible, and I view them as washed up (my opinion). But i dont think telling someone “not to party at all” at the age of 21 is great advice either. If you’re gunna do it, do it when youre young. If you can get away with it and get good grades and meet your physique goals, go for it. youre in college…have fun. I sure as hell am. If it’s not your scene… then dont. Much like choosing gear over not using.

215

[quote]MAK40 wrote:
ehh… I believe the “party” argument is subjective, much like the gear use. It is also all goal dependent (recognizing alcohol consumption may impair gains, as well as quality of life later on). Now i do not believe anyone above the age of say… 25 should be going out and partying on a regular basis. Thats irresponsible, and I view them as washed up (my opinion). But i dont think telling someone “not to party at all” at the age of 21 is great advice either. If you’re gunna do it, do it when youre young. If you can get away with it and get good grades and meet your physique goals, go for it. youre in college…have fun. I sure as hell am. If it’s not your scene… then dont. Much like choosing gear over not using.
[/quote]

misery loves company doesn’t it?

216

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

No one tells me I’m cheating myself when I take an Advil to clear up a headache, no one tells the cancer patient that they didn’t earn their remission because they used chemo.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t steroid used for a beginner be more analogous to using morphine to stop a headache rather than a Tylenol?[/quote]

Nah, nothing so dramatic. It’s on par with popping a Tylenol 3 that you had left over from the time you twisted your ankle, lol.