Earlier in the week I found this podcast featuring Layne Norton and Mike Zourdos, who is the guy that conducted this research study. They talk about DUP pretty extensively and periodization generally. Might be worth a listen for anyone who’s into that kind of thing. I definitely enjoyed it.
[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
Earlier in the week I found this podcast featuring Layne Norton and Mike Zourdos, who is the guy that conducted this research study. They talk about DUP pretty extensively and periodization generally. Might be worth a listen for anyone who’s into that kind of thing. I definitely enjoyed it.
Stream Physique Science Episode 4 - Periodization Training With Dr. Mike Zourdos by Physique Science Radio | Listen online for free on SoundCloud [/quote]
Yes, a very good podcast.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Based on your experience so far (aside from Reed’s boredom), how sustainable do you think this is? Is it something that should really only be visited for a training cycle once a blue moon, or something that can be run more end-to-end?[/quote]
I have been very pleased so far. next week is my last week, and I will do some form of test the following, probably more of a heavy double or triple, and then run the program again, upping my weights by about 10 lbs. Then I have a comp in early Dec, and not sure after that.
This is kind of an odd question but I’m going to run this program as written after wrapping up my current 5/3/1 cycle, and I’m not sure how to schedule my test workout to find my maxes for this program. The last week on this cycle starts monday, and my deload starts the monday after that. So my options are:
- Complete the 5/3/1 week as planned, then test my maxes over the weekend before starting the deload as planned.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week and then hit a max single after my AMRAP set and use that weight as my max.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week by only hitting the prescribed reps (no AMRAP), then work up to a max single for each lift and use that as my max.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week as planned, test my maxes the following monday and cut my deload 1 day short.
I’m not sure which option will give me the most accurate indication of my 1 rep maxes. Any input?
[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
This is kind of an odd question but I’m going to run this program as written after wrapping up my current 5/3/1 cycle, and I’m not sure how to schedule my test workout to find my maxes for this program. The last week on this cycle starts monday, and my deload starts the monday after that. So my options are:
- Complete the 5/3/1 week as planned, then test my maxes over the weekend before starting the deload as planned.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week and then hit a max single after my AMRAP set and use that weight as my max.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week by only hitting the prescribed reps (no AMRAP), then work up to a max single for each lift and use that as my max.
- Complete the 5/3/1 week as planned, test my maxes the following monday and cut my deload 1 day short.
I’m not sure which option will give me the most accurate indication of my 1 rep maxes. Any input? [/quote]
I would do option 3 or 4.
Hi Ecchastang
Do you have public a web-log ?
[quote]Dot Fender wrote:
Hi Ecchastang
Do you have public a web-log ?[/quote]
Not anything current, or about lifting.
Sad, but ty for the reply anyway Ecchastang, it would have been great to see your complete DUP template.
[quote]Dot Fender wrote:
Sad, but ty for the reply anyway Ecchastang, it would have been great to see your complete DUP template.[/quote]
I am posting all my updates on this forum topic for this round.
Anyone knowledgeable on the routine feel like briefly writing out the layout for the 6 weeks and how it could be run (either for everything or just bench if that’s all that’s been tried out here)?
Thats quite an interesting article. Definitely food for thought. Do you feel you have more zest for training because each day is a little different? I may have missed it, but do they mention rest times between sets? I read an article about Bulgarian lifters who rest about a minute for sets of 85% or less and two minutes for sets over. Mind you they were weightlifters.
What did they imply by individually adjust for the hypertrophy phase? Added 5-10 pounds when reps are easily reached?
[quote]HUNTER13 wrote:
What did they imply by individually adjust for the hypertrophy phase? Added 5-10 pounds when reps are easily reached?[/quote]
I have added 5lbs per week on hypertrophy day.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
Ecchastang, I know its still early on but any updates so far? How did you set up your assistance these last two weeks? [/quote]
I learned that the osteochondrosis in my hip can not handle the lower body volume so after week 1, I decided to just run this for bench and stick with my low volume squat and deadlift.
For bench, I kept my assistance work to a minimum, mainly a couple sets of triceps, and moderate volume of rowing variations. I used 335 as my max, but that could have been 5-10 lbs light. Set it up doing Sun hypertrophy, Tues Power, Thurs Strength. So just finished my second week.
Week 1 Sun 5x8 at 250 (first time doing 8 reps in forever)
Tues 5x1 at 270
Thurs 3x6 at 285 (max reps each set)
Week 2 Sun 5x8 at 255
Tues 5x1 at 275
Thurs 6, 5, 5 at 295 (max reps each set)
I have gained about 2 lbs since starting.
[/quote]
Two more weeks in the books.
Week 3 Sun 4x8 at 260
Tues 4x1 at 285
Thurs 3x5 at 300 (max reps each set)
Week 4 Sun 4x8 at 265
Tues 4x1 at 285
Thurs 3x5 at 305 (max reps each set)
Up to bodyweight 158, so 2 more pounds or so.
[/quote]
Week 5 of 6 done.
Sun 3x8 at 270
Tues 3x1 at 300
Thurs 3x5 at 310!!! Max reps each set.
Bodyweight 157.8[/quote]
wrapped up the last week of the program tonight.
Sun 3x8 at 275
Tues 3x1 at 300
Thurs 5, 4, 4 at 315! (max reps each set and a new 4 and 5 rep max!)
Bodyweight 158.8
7 weeks ago, I did 315x3 to figure out where I was at and calculate my max for the program. I would say I have increased my max by at least 20 lbs or more. Plus my work capacity has improved greatly.
What are you going to do next? And also looking for some applicable feedback.
I know he works out greater intensity/frequency programs that mix ratios of volume/power/strength in higher amounts depending on the phase (hypertrophy vs intensity) you are in and the desired application (bodybuilding vs powerlifting specific.) This template is considered a 1:1:1 ratio, but he does run 2:1:1 ratios or even more skewed ratios towards specific goals.
Curious how after you went through this, and if you felt you could add an additional strength day, where do you feel it would be most beneficial for you to add it in?
I don’t run this and don’t plan to, but I definitely find it intriguing and yet from all the Q@A’s and videos, there is not much info out there about how he progresses this over an extended period of training an athlete towards their focus.
Ecchastang:
Increasing your bench by at least 20 lbs over 7 weeks is awesome. The results seem similar to Smolov Jr. but I’m guessing that more of the gains will stick because of the longer amount of time spent doing the program. Please keep us updated over the next couple months if your bench strength remains the same.
In comparison with Smolov Jr., which also uses a DUP scheme, there are some notable similarities and differences. The differences of course being the volume condensed into a shorter time frame and the lack of a power day. This makes me think that the power component of the program isn’t that important. In reference to Rhea’s study, the DUP routine for that study also didn’t have a power component and worked well. It seems like the power day could be replaced by a workout with volume and intensity in between the first and last training day of each week. Do you feel like that power day was key to your success or the main volume/strength days?
The reason why I say this is because when looking at both programs, you can see that the difficulty of a set from each day within a training week looks to be about the same - add 10-15 lbs for each rep removed or vice versa. In Smolov you do this across 4 days whereas this program you do it over 2 days (not including power day). Somehow that final heavy day primes you for the first day of the next week because the decrease in intensity more than compensates for the increase in work volume. This seems to be the key in DUP where volume is kept constant while manipulating intensity and then the following week a drop in intensity allows for a jump in volume. It embodies the general strength training progression of using volume to build strength, strength to build volume, and so on but in a matter of days instead of weeks and months. It’s a pretty interesting concept and I think the pioneers of this method were geniuses.
[quote]BacktotheBar wrote:
Curious how after you went through this, and if you felt you could add an additional strength day, where do you feel it would be most beneficial for you to add it in?
[/quote]
As mentioned in my post above, I think you can swap out the power day for moderate strength/hypertrophy work (something in between the first and last day). I’m really curious how long this program can be sustained for too because it’s almost like a thinned out version of Smolov Jr. My guess is that it is still taxing near the end because of the high intensities so you might have to spend a couple weeks working with less intensities before running the program back. I’m also waiting to hear what Ecchastang plans to do next.
Edit: Actually what I mentioned above might lead to overtraining. If the power day and strength day were combined it would pretty much be a high volume day (including all warmup work) which would be about the same volume as the first training day of the week. So Ecchastang is effectively doing 2 high volume training session per week which comes out to 12 high volume training sessions in a training cycle. Smolov Jr. also has 12 high volume training sessions in a training cycle. Based on these two programs you can probably make a 3x per week, 4 week long training cycle and strategically manipulate volume and intensity to make it work.
@ lift206:
I do see the comparison between smolov and DUP, but I don’t think I could recover as quickly on smolov Jr , personally. Also, I feel like the gains I achieved will stick and continue to go up. I have never done smolov Jr, but I have read and heard of people losing the gains when they don’t stay with such high volume. As to the “power” day, I felt it was more of a recovery day between hypertrophy and strength. Coming from 5/3/1, I liked AMRAP on the strength day. The other thing I would point out with Smolov Jr vs this particular DUP plan, Smolov jr seems to work best with intermediate to low-advanced lifters. I am far from great but my bench numbers at my bodyweight fall closer to elite level, and at that level, most people would take a 5 lb increase every 6 weeks. I have yet to read about someone already at a pretty good level getting huge gains from Smolov Jr.
As to what next, I plan on going for a heavy double or triple next Thursday, and then starting over with a new calculated max.
Nice! I’ll definitely keep following your progress.
With Smolov, people can make a 20 lb PR over their actual max but they don’t play it conservatively and increase their training max by a lesser amount to account for a non-peaking improvement, e.g., 5-10 lbs instead of 20 lbs added to training max. I learned from personal experience. IMO (as a weak bencher so you don’t have to take my advice), I would suggest to err on the light side just like you did before.
After running the 6 week program, I rested the past week and then tonight benched 340 lbs for a double. That is a 10 lb all time double PR, and probably 20 lbs more than I could have done right before running the program. Starting weight 155.4, ending weight 158.8 Starting again Sunday at 15 lbs heavier.