Drill Baby Drill

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Couple of things here John…

I am not concerned about BP’s profits, I know they will be just fine after all this… Ultimately this isn’t a question of money, money can’t solve a problem with insufficient man power and unpreparedness. BP could throw more money on this problem, but frankly it has nowhere to go since the idiots are still deciding how to stop the leak…

Your dismissiveness is just ridiculous, what do you mean “There is always some massive enviromental desaster blah blah”. The least you could do is acknowledge that this is a serious problem that needs tackling, this problem could be around for many years. If this spill does last until hurricane season then the likely scenario is that the majority of ecosystems, fishing industries, and people in the gulf of Mexico will have been dealt a devastating blow. You make it sound like the spill will just casually disappear on it’s own!

Your volcano comment is just irrelevant and stupid. Please, don’t bring it up again.

Lastly this problem isn’t a symptom of drilling, but it is a symptom of unpreparedness and sloppiness. This problem could have been averted if these idiots had prepared for this contingency, but they haven’t. They could have designed remotely operated underground valves or even a simple housing for the broken lines, but they didn’t. Instead we will be waiting another week for them to figure it out, and be paying for it for another 10 - 20 years.

And please, if you are going to list any more anti environmentalism rhetoric, post a link to support the bullshit. [/quote]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/05/03/subsea-oil-recovery-spill-bp-gulf-mexico/

Looks like BP is on the job.

My problem with environmental disaster bullshit is it is always bullshit, first we where all going to die with global warming then it turned out to be a fraud, now the entire gulf cost is going to be destroyed because of the oil spill, it will be cleaned up some damage will be done, anyone who is affected will get paid by BP so they will be fine.

By the end of the year who is really going to care about this? The environmental nutjobs and thats about it.

I have had it up to hear with this eco nonsense, earth was here before us will be here after us.

Unlike the environmental nutjobs who’s cure for the oil problems are met with the equivalent of finding the fountain of youth I have made a thread showing where else to get oil.

Ill dismiss this because I really don’t care, BP will take care/pay for this problem so at the end of the day why should I care. People far smarter then you or I are on the job.[/quote]

Dude, really?? What constitutes being an “environmental nutjob” to you? What in hell convinced you GW is a guaranteed fraud? People worried about this problem are at least responsible, and definitely not crazy.

You need to take a biology class or something because history is literally full of instances where a small change in the environment produces an incredible effect on ecosystems be it positive or negative. For example the effects of the valdez oil spill are still here… Google the sixth extinction on a scientific database and you will find that the scientific community pretty much agrees that we are going to enter another mass extinction period. But then again maybe it’s too much to hope for that you even believe in science at all.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

82

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
Believe it or not oil seeps into the ocean naturally all the time. More enviromental damage was done with the volcano then this.[/quote]

How are you this dumb?[/quote]

Natural oil leaks equal to 8-80 Exxon Valdez spills

Oil residue in seafloor sediments that comes from natural petroleum seeps off Santa Barbara, Calif., is equivalent to between 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, according to a new study by researchers at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).

Oil content of sediments is highest closest to the seeps and tails off with distance, creating an oil fallout shadow. The amount of oil in the sediments down current from the seeps is the equivalent of approximately 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, the study said.

WHOI marine chemist Chris Reddy said Chris Farwell, the lead author of a paper on the subject and at the time an undergraduate working with UCSB�??�?�¢??s Dave Valentine, �??�?�¢??developed and mapped out our plan for collecting sediment samples from the ocean floor. After conducting the analysis of the samples, we were able to make some spectacular findings.�??�?�¢??

There is an oil spill everyday at Coal Oil Point (COP), the natural seeps off Santa Barbara, where 20-25 tons of oil have leaked from the seafloor each day for the last several hundred thousand years.

Want me to post more links or will you us the “google” next time before calling someone dumb?

[/quote]

I apologize for thinking a concentrated surface based oil spill was different to deep sea oil release.

MY BAD LOLZ[/quote]

It isnt really.

This has economic consequences for fishermen and the like and they should be compensated by BP but for all other purposes oil is oil and it does rise to the surface and creates problems.
[/quote]

Natural distribution is completely different to a concentrated spill. Suggesting otherwise is pretty counter-intuitive. In those quantities and concentrations, oil is not just oil.

83

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
Believe it or not oil seeps into the ocean naturally all the time. More enviromental damage was done with the volcano then this.[/quote]

How are you this dumb?[/quote]

Natural oil leaks equal to 8-80 Exxon Valdez spills

Oil residue in seafloor sediments that comes from natural petroleum seeps off Santa Barbara, Calif., is equivalent to between 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, according to a new study by researchers at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).

Oil content of sediments is highest closest to the seeps and tails off with distance, creating an oil fallout shadow. The amount of oil in the sediments down current from the seeps is the equivalent of approximately 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, the study said.

WHOI marine chemist Chris Reddy said Chris Farwell, the lead author of a paper on the subject and at the time an undergraduate working with UCSB�??�??�?�¢??s Dave Valentine, �??�??�?�¢??developed and mapped out our plan for collecting sediment samples from the ocean floor. After conducting the analysis of the samples, we were able to make some spectacular findings.�??�??�?�¢??

There is an oil spill everyday at Coal Oil Point (COP), the natural seeps off Santa Barbara, where 20-25 tons of oil have leaked from the seafloor each day for the last several hundred thousand years.

Want me to post more links or will you us the “google” next time before calling someone dumb?

[/quote]

I apologize for thinking a concentrated surface based oil spill was different to deep sea oil release.

MY BAD LOLZ[/quote]

It isnt really.

This has economic consequences for fishermen and the like and they should be compensated by BP but for all other purposes oil is oil and it does rise to the surface and creates problems.
[/quote]

Natural distribution is completely different to a concentrated spill. Suggesting otherwise is pretty counter-intuitive. In those quantities and concentrations, oil is not just oil.[/quote]

Sounds like compairing rain to a flood.

84

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Dude, really?? What constitutes being an “environmental nutjob” to you? What in hell convinced you GW is a guaranteed fraud? People worried about this problem are at least responsible, and definitely not crazy.

You need to take a biology class or something because history is literally full of instances where a small change in the environment produces an incredible effect on ecosystems be it positive or negative. For example the effects of the valdez oil spill are still here… Google the sixth extinction on a scientific database and you will find that the scientific community pretty much agrees that we are going to enter another mass extinction period. But then again maybe it’s too much to hope for that you even believe in science at all.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html[/quote]

first with GW, it seems every week another “scientist” is getting called out on a lie he made. I don’t consider people on the government payroll to be scientists at all so I really could care less what they say, they will say whatever scare mongering bullshit to get funding.

You know animals have died for a long long time, you will forgive me if I don’t shed a tear when a species go extinct. What is it 90% of all species have gone extinct? Thats a lot of fucking animals.

I worry about things that actually matter, I don’t go chasing the fountain of youth and I don’t start crying when animals die. And thats not a very smart thing to say, if I disagree with your “science” then I don’t believe in science at all, you know how many “scientist” have been wrong over the years, or do you just think we knew everything the second we where created/evolved?

85

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
Believe it or not oil seeps into the ocean naturally all the time. More enviromental damage was done with the volcano then this.[/quote]

How are you this dumb?[/quote]

Natural oil leaks equal to 8-80 Exxon Valdez spills

Oil residue in seafloor sediments that comes from natural petroleum seeps off Santa Barbara, Calif., is equivalent to between 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, according to a new study by researchers at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).

Oil content of sediments is highest closest to the seeps and tails off with distance, creating an oil fallout shadow. The amount of oil in the sediments down current from the seeps is the equivalent of approximately 8 to 80 Exxon Valdez oil spills, the study said.

WHOI marine chemist Chris Reddy said Chris Farwell, the lead author of a paper on the subject and at the time an undergraduate working with UCSB�??�??�??�?�¢??s Dave Valentine, �??�??�??�?�¢??developed and mapped out our plan for collecting sediment samples from the ocean floor. After conducting the analysis of the samples, we were able to make some spectacular findings.�??�??�??�?�¢??

There is an oil spill everyday at Coal Oil Point (COP), the natural seeps off Santa Barbara, where 20-25 tons of oil have leaked from the seafloor each day for the last several hundred thousand years.

Want me to post more links or will you us the “google” next time before calling someone dumb?

[/quote]

I apologize for thinking a concentrated surface based oil spill was different to deep sea oil release.

MY BAD LOLZ[/quote]

It isnt really.

This has economic consequences for fishermen and the like and they should be compensated by BP but for all other purposes oil is oil and it does rise to the surface and creates problems.
[/quote]

Natural distribution is completely different to a concentrated spill. Suggesting otherwise is pretty counter-intuitive. In those quantities and concentrations, oil is not just oil.[/quote]

Sounds like compairing rain to a flood.
[/quote]

I would pretty much say it’s like comparing germ warfare to normal viral and bacterial spread.

86

[quote]pushharder wrote:
An $86 a barrel price is not “down” for oil that reasonably should be selling for ~$20.[/quote]

Why reasonably at $20? Where are you assuming the huge amount of cheap to extract oil comes from?

87

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Irish,

What good does the oil do if it stays in the ground ?[/quote]

It doesn’t increase CO2 levels in the atmosphere. It doesn’t get spilt and destroy ecosystems. In fact it does a lot of good by not being out of the ground!

88

[quote]John S. wrote:

Accidents happen, the companies will learn from it and the problem will be avoided.

By the end of next month this spill will be cleaned up and by the end of june everyone will have forgoten about it.[/quote]

It takes over a decade for an area affected by oil spills to even start to show serious recovery.

You might have forgotten about it but that’s mainly because you care about very little apart from yourself.

89

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Dude, really?? What constitutes being an “environmental nutjob” to you? What in hell convinced you GW is a guaranteed fraud? People worried about this problem are at least responsible, and definitely not crazy.

You need to take a biology class or something because history is literally full of instances where a small change in the environment produces an incredible effect on ecosystems be it positive or negative. For example the effects of the valdez oil spill are still here… Google the sixth extinction on a scientific database and you will find that the scientific community pretty much agrees that we are going to enter another mass extinction period. But then again maybe it’s too much to hope for that you even believe in science at all.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html[/quote]

first with GW, it seems every week another “scientist” is getting called out on a lie he made. I don’t consider people on the government payroll to be scientists at all so I really could care less what they say, they will say whatever scare mongering bullshit to get funding.

You know animals have died for a long long time, you will forgive me if I don’t shed a tear when a species go extinct. What is it 90% of all species have gone extinct? Thats a lot of fucking animals.

I worry about things that actually matter, I don’t go chasing the fountain of youth and I don’t start crying when animals die. And thats not a very smart thing to say, if I disagree with your “science” then I don’t believe in science at all, you know how many “scientist” have been wrong over the years, or do you just think we knew everything the second we where created/evolved?[/quote]

Right, who can trust the greedy scientists these days, it’s so much smarter to completely dismiss all their theories because of a few minor inconsistencies… Come on dude, you’re ignoring better judgement and you should know it. Theirs enough data on GW to make any reasonable person a little bit cautious at this point.

You do know that the government gives grants and funding to people whose research has the potential to give back to the community right? That’s uhh, pretty much how most scientific work gets funded. So the majority of the nations scientists “are on the government payroll” as you say. I’m so sick of hearing this inane anti GW bullshit.

And who the hell put you in charge of deciding what “actually matters” in this world anyway? I enjoy and protect the environment I live in and I’m proud of it. Your arguments are either from ignorance or arrogance, it’s basically 50-50. I’m going to leave you with that, you need to pull your head out of your ass and use it for once.

90

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Right, who can trust the greedy scientists these days, it’s so much smarter to completely dismiss all their theories because of a few minor inconsistencies… Come on dude, you’re ignoring better judgement and you should know it. Theirs enough data on GW to make any reasonable person a little bit cautious at this point.

You do know that the government gives grants and funding to people whose research has the potential to give back to the community right? That’s uhh, pretty much how most scientific work gets funded. So the majority of the nations scientists “are on the government payroll” as you say. I’m so sick of hearing this inane anti GW bullshit.

And who the hell put you in charge of deciding what “actually matters” in this world anyway? I enjoy and protect the environment I live in and I’m proud of it. Your arguments are either from ignorance or arrogance, it’s basically 50-50. I’m going to leave you with that, you need to pull your head out of your ass and use it for once.[/quote]

A few inconsitancies? the entire hocky stick graph was a fraud.

Who gives you the right to decide what is important or not? If you want to give your money to fund GW research that is fine, just don’t go looking to me to pay for it.

You will reject all proof that it is wrong because your arrogance and need to be a world changer has blinded you into thinking you are doing something important.

91

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Couple of things here John…

I am not concerned about BP’s profits, I know they will be just fine after all this… Ultimately this isn’t a question of money, money can’t solve a problem with insufficient man power and unpreparedness. BP could throw more money on this problem, but frankly it has nowhere to go since the idiots are still deciding how to stop the leak…

Your dismissiveness is just ridiculous, what do you mean “There is always some massive enviromental desaster blah blah”. The least you could do is acknowledge that this is a serious problem that needs tackling, this problem could be around for many years. If this spill does last until hurricane season then the likely scenario is that the majority of ecosystems, fishing industries, and people in the gulf of Mexico will have been dealt a devastating blow. You make it sound like the spill will just casually disappear on it’s own!

Your volcano comment is just irrelevant and stupid. Please, don’t bring it up again.

Lastly this problem isn’t a symptom of drilling, but it is a symptom of unpreparedness and sloppiness. This problem could have been averted if these idiots had prepared for this contingency, but they haven’t. They could have designed remotely operated underground valves or even a simple housing for the broken lines, but they didn’t. Instead we will be waiting another week for them to figure it out, and be paying for it for another 10 - 20 years.

And please, if you are going to list any more anti environmentalism rhetoric, post a link to support the bullshit. [/quote]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/05/03/subsea-oil-recovery-spill-bp-gulf-mexico/

Looks like BP is on the job.

My problem with environmental disaster bullshit is it is always bullshit, first we where all going to die with global warming then it turned out to be a fraud, now the entire gulf cost is going to be destroyed because of the oil spill, it will be cleaned up some damage will be done, anyone who is affected will get paid by BP so they will be fine.

By the end of the year who is really going to care about this? The environmental nutjobs and thats about it.

I have had it up to hear with this eco nonsense, earth was here before us will be here after us.

Unlike the environmental nutjobs who’s cure for the oil problems are met with the equivalent of finding the fountain of youth I have made a thread showing where else to get oil.

Ill dismiss this because I really don’t care, BP will take care/pay for this problem so at the end of the day why should I care. People far smarter then you or I are on the job.[/quote]

I guess I’m an enviro-nut job because I do “care” about this whole thing.

I hate to see coastal and ocean critters that have to suffer and die because of human mistakes/carelessness. I hate to see the fishing industry struggle because of human mistakes/ carelessness.

It’s interesting that people will dismiss this disaster, which is exactly what it is, and think it will be forgotten in a week.

92

[quote]Dustin wrote:

I guess I’m an enviro-nut job because I do “care” about this whole thing.

I hate to see coastal and ocean critters that have to suffer and die because of human mistakes/carelessness. I hate to see the fishing industry struggle because of human mistakes/ carelessness.

It’s interesting that people will dismiss this disaster, which is exactly what it is, and think it will be forgotten in a week.

[/quote]

At the end of the year is this really going to be on your mind?

93

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

I guess I’m an enviro-nut job because I do “care” about this whole thing.

I hate to see coastal and ocean critters that have to suffer and die because of human mistakes/carelessness. I hate to see the fishing industry struggle because of human mistakes/ carelessness.

It’s interesting that people will dismiss this disaster, which is exactly what it is, and think it will be forgotten in a week.

[/quote]

At the end of the year is this really going to be on your mind?[/quote]

Probably not, but I’m not sure what that has to do with being concerned about this accident.

And please explain what constitutes an enviro nut-job.

94

[quote]Dustin wrote:

Probably not, but I’m not sure what that has to do with being concerned about this accident.

And please explain what constitutes an enviro nut-job.

[/quote]

Its fine to be concerned about the accident, but BP has already capped one of the 3 leaks and will have the other 2 done by the end of the week. Then they will spend a month or so cleaning up and everything will be fine.

An enviro nut-job is a tree hugger.

It is someone who will use this as a way to stop offshore drilling(welcoming in the age of $10 a gallon of gas). Its one who thinks that man is causing global warming(its cooling) and only turning into a totalitarian state will save us.

95

So John,are you now more,less or equally concerned now that it doesn’t look like the leak will be capped any time soon?Are you still believing the BP bullshit?I’m just wondering when this moves from ‘accident’ to ‘disaster’.

96

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
So John,are you now more,less or equally concerned now that it doesn’t look like the leak will be capped any time soon?Are you still believing the BP bullshit?I’m just wondering when this moves from ‘accident’ to ‘disaster’.[/quote]

I am not really concerned at all, BP is still going to pay for it. I can tell you this after this accident they will be investing a lot of money into safer drilling so this doesn’t happen again.

97

I met a geophysicist the other day and he told me how when they drill to a certain depth, they go thru a methane slurry(~500m, ~2 degrees celcius) to get at the oil/gas(~1500m), and the methane slurry(methane hydrate aka fire ice) is very volatile, and the heat of the drill acts as a catalyst on the methane hydrate.

http://solveclimate.com/blog/20100519/did-deepwater-methane-hydrates-cause-bp-gulf-explosion

98

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
So John,are you now more,less or equally concerned now that it doesn’t look like the leak will be capped any time soon?Are you still believing the BP bullshit?I’m just wondering when this moves from ‘accident’ to ‘disaster’.[/quote]

I am not really concerned at all, BP is still going to pay for it. I can tell you this after this accident they will be investing a lot of money into safer drilling so this doesn’t happen again.[/quote]

The amount BP pay or don’t pay,and how that tallies up against the actual short and long term costs of the whole incident remains to be seen.Going by their current and ongoing blatant lying in regards to the actual amounts of oil leaking,their recovery rates ,etc,it doesn’t really instill confidence in the company.Personally I think you’re going to see far more litigation to avoid as much of the costs as possible rather than actual payment.It also doesn’t make any claims by you as regards to how they will be investing a ‘lot of money’ into safer drilling very credible.Why would they?They have the ‘it was an accident’ defense,and like you rightly said,peoples memories are short.Unless you happen to be one of the poor schmucks whose business and livelihood gets destroyed.

Unless of course the Federal Government turns the screws on them.

Do you think the Feds should,if BP do not play ball?

And what do the rest of you think?

99

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
So John,are you now more,less or equally concerned now that it doesn’t look like the leak will be capped any time soon?Are you still believing the BP bullshit?I’m just wondering when this moves from ‘accident’ to ‘disaster’.[/quote]

I am not really concerned at all, BP is still going to pay for it. I can tell you this after this accident they will be investing a lot of money into safer drilling so this doesn’t happen again.[/quote]

The amount BP pay or don’t pay,and how that tallies up against the actual short and long term costs of the whole incident remains to be seen.Going by their current and ongoing blatant lying in regards to the actual amounts of oil leaking,their recovery rates ,etc,it doesn’t really instill confidence in the company.Personally I think you’re going to see far more litigation to avoid as much of the costs as possible rather than actual payment.It also doesn’t make any claims by you as regards to how they will be investing a ‘lot of money’ into safer drilling very credible.Why would they?They have the ‘it was an accident’ defense,and like you rightly said,peoples memories are short.Unless you happen to be one of the poor schmucks whose business and livelihood gets destroyed.

Unless of course the Federal Government turns the screws on them.

Do you think the Feds should,if BP do not play ball?

And what do the rest of you think?[/quote]

The feds should stay out of this, BP is going to direct money into safer drilling because they don’t want to lose this much money ever again. This is a do or die moment for them. If the costs become so great then they will have to sell there company to pay for it. That will cause every other oil company to start safer practicies due to the profit motive.

100

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
So John,are you now more,less or equally concerned now that it doesn’t look like the leak will be capped any time soon?Are you still believing the BP bullshit?I’m just wondering when this moves from ‘accident’ to ‘disaster’.[/quote]

I am not really concerned at all, BP is still going to pay for it. I can tell you this after this accident they will be investing a lot of money into safer drilling so this doesn’t happen again.[/quote]

The amount BP pay or don’t pay,and how that tallies up against the actual short and long term costs of the whole incident remains to be seen.Going by their current and ongoing blatant lying in regards to the actual amounts of oil leaking,their recovery rates ,etc,it doesn’t really instill confidence in the company.Personally I think you’re going to see far more litigation to avoid as much of the costs as possible rather than actual payment.It also doesn’t make any claims by you as regards to how they will be investing a ‘lot of money’ into safer drilling very credible.Why would they?They have the ‘it was an accident’ defense,and like you rightly said,peoples memories are short.Unless you happen to be one of the poor schmucks whose business and livelihood gets destroyed.

Unless of course the Federal Government turns the screws on them.

Do you think the Feds should,if BP do not play ball?

And what do the rest of you think?[/quote]

The feds should stay out of this, BP is going to direct money into safer drilling because they don’t want to lose this much money ever again. This is a do or die moment for them. If the costs become so great then they will have to sell there company to pay for it. That will cause every other oil company to start safer practicies due to the profit motive.[/quote]

That sounds more than a little naive to me.Correct me if I’m wrong,but isn’t there a legal cap to the limit BP have to pay?I know they have said they will pay over that,but how much when they have no legal obligation to do so?You’re deluding yourself if you think BP will push themselves into bankruptcy over this.Who is going to make them pay?If the Feds don’t do it,who will?
You predicate that safer drilling practices will come out of a result (BP going belly up over this) that just isn’t going to happen.