If what you are saying is true, then why is it that in the strictest of natural competitions, the winners are about the size and leanness of Eugen Sandow? Humans don’t evolve that much in 100 years. Bodybuilding is a drug fueled “sport” and while natural bodybuilding certainly exists, that isn’t the point. At some level you have to realize that people, homo sapiens, whatever–we have limits.
Also going to put out the fact that using steroids briefly and training hard with them can lead to benefits for a long time down the road. This has actually been scientifically backed up. We all know about the guys who are currently “natural” but don’t talk about past discontinued use.
If all of bodybuilding discussion is a redux of “drugs or no drugs?” It gets boring VERY fast.
It is a matter of respect…you’re essentially accusing him of being a pathological liar. Natural bb’ing is one of the biggest parts of this guy’s life, so if he’s using drugs, he’s living a lie. That’s a pretty big claim to publicly make against someone you don’t know. I’m not naive, I know there are plenty of natural pros cheating the system. But I won’t publicly call someone out who hasn’t failed a test
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
It is a matter of respect…you’re essentially accusing him of being a pathological liar. Natural bb’ing is one of the biggest parts of this guy’s life, so if he’s using drugs, he’s living a lie.[/quote]
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I’m not naive
[/quote]
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I know there are plenty of natural pros cheating the system. But I won’t publicly call someone out who hasn’t failed a test[/quote]
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
It is a matter of respect…you’re essentially accusing him of being a pathological liar. Natural bb’ing is one of the biggest parts of this guy’s life, so if he’s using drugs, he’s living a lie. That’s a pretty big claim to publicly make against someone you don’t know. I’m not naive, I know there are plenty of natural pros cheating the system. But I won’t publicly call someone out who hasn’t failed a test [/quote]
That’s fine, and that’s what a lot of the public did regarding baseball. Same with Lance Armstrong. Same as what’s happening in crossfit. Deny deny deny until there’s a smoking gun. I’ve got no problem with that.
I don’t believe professional athletes who use steroids, no matter what their sport, are ‘living a lie’. I don’t think I’m disrespecting anyone by saying that I believe the top athletes in just about every drug tested sport use drugs. I just think it’s a fact of life.
I also don’t consider what I’m doing on this forum to be a ‘call-out’. Nobody of any importance will ever read this or take it seriously. On the other hand, if I called up the drug testing officials of his federation and told him I had personal knowledge of him using drugs, or something like that, it would be a call-out. I’m not doing that. I’m just an outsider, as you already mentioned, who happens to have an opinion on the subject. For me, I don’t need to see a failed drug test or a needle in his arm to be convinced that he’s used steroids. You obviously have standards other than these. To each his own.
I don’t expect many to agree with me, and I understand that. But to me, the difference between using drugs while competing in natural bb’ing and using drugs in the MLB is pretty big. Natural bodybuilding is specifically meant to be drug free, so to me, someone using drugs while competing is really a scumbag. If there was a “Natural” division of professional baseball and then also an untested league, someone using while playing in the specifically natural league would be living a lie
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I don’t expect many to agree with me, and I understand that. But to me, the difference between using drugs while competing in natural bb’ing and using drugs in the MLB is pretty big. Natural bodybuilding is specifically meant to be drug free, so to me, someone using drugs while competing is really a scumbag. If there was a “Natural” division of professional baseball and then also an untested league, someone using while playing in the specifically natural league would be living a lie[/quote]
Tell that to the MLB players who don’t use PEDs. I’m pretty sure they would argue that the MLB IS specifically meant to be drug free. The MLB rule book would certainly indicate this.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
It is a matter of respect…you’re essentially accusing him of being a pathological liar. Natural bb’ing is one of the biggest parts of this guy’s life, so if he’s using drugs, he’s living a lie. That’s a pretty big claim to publicly make against someone you don’t know. I’m not naive, I know there are plenty of natural pros cheating the system. But I won’t publicly call someone out who hasn’t failed a test [/quote]
I think you need a couple pysch courses and a couple good books on the human brain. They is an amazing number of pathological liars. Bbers happen to be a large category of them mainly Becuase they have been forced to be. Hollywood stars. And doctors are also nice and high on that list
The fact you see steriods as a bad thing and using them meaning less respect given for competing speaks yet more volumes to how naive you are. Sorry your dreams are being crushed and your hero isn’t who he said but that is how it is please just move on with your life. <3
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I don’t expect many to agree with me, and I understand that. But to me, the difference between using drugs while competing in natural bb’ing and using drugs in the MLB is pretty big. Natural bodybuilding is specifically meant to be drug free, so to me, someone using drugs while competing is really a scumbag. If there was a “Natural” division of professional baseball and then also an untested league, someone using while playing in the specifically natural league would be living a lie[/quote]
What are you talking about. They are specifically banned meaning you are supposed to be natty in the Olympics NFL NBA ect. Are they. Nope. Who cares. Drugs don’t make them that good. Their genetics do. It’s doesn’t detract from their achievements. They’d still be at the top of their chosen sports and some shmuck who says omg PEDs makes it so they are the best…I can’t even
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Moji looks good but doesn’t give anything that makes me think he HAS to be using. Totally could be, but he’s a manlet I think and not that heavy, seems like he’s just genetically has some good Quads which makes him stand out against most natties who get ‘stringy’ in the wheels. [/quote]
Really? What, exactly, would he have to look like for you to say he HAS to be using? You guys are starting to sound like Professor X around here. THERE IS NO NATURAL LIMIT YOU GUYZ!!![/quote]
C’mon dude. Taking a on staged posed picture that’s freaking IG filtered? I’m with you, I don’t believe Doug is a lifetime natty, but the Moji dude looks like a short, lighter guy with great structure (obviously lots of hard work too)
both these videos are of him, and IMO a video is much more telling of someone’s size than a picture standing by themselves flexing in the best condition of their lives. He’s obviously very developed but the videos don’t scream ‘enhanced’ to me.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
both these videos are of him, and IMO a video is much more telling of someone’s size than a picture standing by themselves flexing in the best condition of their lives. He’s obviously very developed but the videos don’t scream ‘enhanced’ to me. [/quote]
Could be he’s just backed off of the juice in those though.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
Believe it or not, Doug won the overall today at the Gaspari Pro! Took the heavyweight class and then beat Moji Oluwa, who easily brought his all time best, in the overall. [/quote]
why wouldn’t we believe it? he looks fantastic [/quote]
Haha I know, was joking with the believe it or not part[/quote]
That RDB pic that was posted on the first page…i dont think ive ever seen shoulders that striated.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
both these videos are of him, and IMO a video is much more telling of someone’s size than a picture standing by themselves flexing in the best condition of their lives. He’s obviously very developed but the videos don’t scream ‘enhanced’ to me. [/quote]
Could be he’s just backed off of the juice in those though.[/quote]
I mean maybe? But he’s what, 5’6" 165-170? That falls into that natty range, right? I mean I guess I could be completely naive, but I mean IMO Miller is a league ahead of this dude. Idk, I don’t care either way really, but I feel for every naive natty dreamer, there are Jason Blaha followers who would say Jskrabsc on here’s physique is unattainable natty. I just feel the Moji dude COULD be using, but it doesn’t seem like it’s a must.
i think doug miller has an amazing physique. But in contest shape he 190 at 5’9, so i’d be almost positive he’s not natural. Still an amazing physique though
Upmost respect for all these guys. I know for a fact I could kill myself with PED doses and live in the gym eat a perfect diet and still wouldn’t be half of what these guys achieve. Much respect. PEDs don’t make it easy. They don’t make up for lazy or inconsistency or least of all poor genetics. They will only make what you bring to the table better. They are a tool just like the weights or next new amazing pwo drink.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Moji looks good but doesn’t give anything that makes me think he HAS to be using. Totally could be, but he’s a manlet I think and not that heavy, seems like he’s just genetically has some good Quads which makes him stand out against most natties who get ‘stringy’ in the wheels. [/quote]
Really? What, exactly, would he have to look like for you to say he HAS to be using? You guys are starting to sound like Professor X around here. THERE IS NO NATURAL LIMIT YOU GUYZ!!![/quote]
C’mon dude. Taking a on staged posed picture that’s freaking IG filtered? I’m with you, I don’t believe Doug is a lifetime natty, but the Moji dude looks like a short, lighter guy with great structure (obviously lots of hard work too)
both these videos are of him, and IMO a video is much more telling of someone’s size than a picture standing by themselves flexing in the best condition of their lives. He’s obviously very developed but the videos don’t scream ‘enhanced’ to me. [/quote]
I saw the same picture unfiltered, it looks just as awesome. Really though a basic google image search comes up with zillions of pictures that make me think he’s not natural. I just picked 1.
I don’t care what he looks like in those videos. If I’m trying to decide if someone is juicing, why wouldn’t I want to see what he looks like at his absolute best (contest condition)? A lot of dudes grow into shows with the help of anabolics. That could be the case here.
This is getting a bit ridiculous. I know Doug pretty well. I also know that between his last show (I believe 2009 or 2010 in which he apparently competed at 192, and this show, in which he competed at 196, he put on a grand total of 4 lbs LBM. That’s one pound per year.
So while I can’t speak to whether he “used” something prior to 2010 because I didn’t know him then, I am confident that he’s been natural for a long, long time. And there is no one who trains harder. Having seen pics of him as a kid, I also know that he is a genetic freak.
Combine genetic freak, incredibly disciplined diet (as in obsessively perfect 24-7), insane workout intensity (check out some of the vids on youtube if you don’t believe me), smart supplementation (check out Core Nutritionals) and something like a training age of 18 years and this is what you get.
And if you can’t tell the difference between pictures of Doug and pictures of Jay Cutler (who I believe is a similar height but competes at something like 240), I’m not sure what I can say to you.
So I get the questions, because people have to raise this every time a natty guy looks ridiculous, but some of these guys are able to put it all together. Brian Whitacre is another example of this, albeit a slightly smaller version. It takes incredible self-discipline, a ton of natural ability, and hard, hard, work.
But it gets a little rich when internet geniuses claim certainty about people who they’ve never met and know very little about. I’m not even sure what the point is, other than to troll…
