Does Weed Hurt Lifting Progress?

Off Topic
23

Wow, thorough reply !

K I guess if we take it to the individual level things can get interesting.

To be clear about the op, I could have asked a better question that would include that I only use the stuff for pain and would tear someone to shreds if they stood between me and the relief it provided.
I use only as needed for pain and by weight were taking a few 1/10 ml of an extract, a gummy, and bout 1/2 a joint worth of flower over a 24 hr period.

Let me just answer this hypothetical question for myself and share the answer.
It will not, can not hurt as much as the opioids required otherwise.
I don’t use enough for it to be considered more than casual use.
I do everything by the book.

Now what would hurt in the gym is being completely unwilling or unable to go because one needs more oxymorphine (Opana) that doesn’t do the job…

So I suppose this should’ve been phrased as a:

“I am xyz bio, this is what I did have to use but stopped how bad do you think MJ is to use. “

Therefore, the substance of the question is if people think MJ, if one MIST be treated for pain, is an alternative that is more gym friendly.

That could be further reduced to chemical effects on testosterone and all the others we care about.

That is very unfortunate. It helps mine a lot, and is the ONLY thing that does, including a laundry list of pharma offerings.
I do not use the delta-8 crap, there have been issues and I don’t trust it.
I do use extracts, but full spectrum not just one chemical.

What I can’t wrap my head around here is you saying “this shit feminizes you.”
Can’t say I feel feminized, feminine, or anything close. Would you please explain your meaning? Thanks - not trying to fight, I wish to understand what you said.

24

Lots of info here:

25

Jay cuttler would smoke before lifting

26

not sure hormonal, but i’ve heard some saying it ramps your e2, but from an emotional perspective
don’t you feel couch-bound, unproductive, submissive, not willing to fight etc. when on weed?
prob same as on alcohol. i use it here and there…but on a frequent basis this will make you a potato.
also if you suffer any chronic pain…(weed for acute is fine IMHO), look in the root causes
there can be a million…but there is a solution to most, not sure what yours is.
i delt with chronic pain which is all history now, so speaking from exp.

27

Not at all.
Not couch bound unless I desire to be and just use that much
Unproductive- I’m actually more productive bc the stuff helps the pain that’s held me back since ‘91.
Submissive - oh hell no

In addition, it’s great for information which I think would indicate it likely hellos recovery. But, I’m about to read the article Chris Shugart linked.

Adios

28

Here’s my overall takeaway from the article, a summation for me:

“ 1. Use of marijuana has little to no benefit for lifters and dieters, but occasional recreational usage is probably not that big of a deal.”

NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL, as in it doesn’t destroy gym results. Of course if you get stoned before lifting that’s going to kill it just like if you guzzle 3 or so beers, IMO.

In my very special and unusual case, my liver has adapted to metabolizing medications and as a result metabolizes cannabis faster than most, plus as a result of years taking them I’m opioid tolerant, so my consumption to just notice it’s in my system may very well knock other people out.

I personally only consume a very little during daylight hours and will open up the throttle in the evenings in order to get to sleep, and to rest over 3.5 hrs, cause I’ll wake up otherwise 100% of the time. I used to take 2mg Xanax + 10mg ambien to just get to sleep and I’m happy to use weed in their place. I figure the stuff grows outta Gods green earth it’s gotta be better than pharma options!
That said, the hash infused gummies I have only contain 10mg of THC and it takes at least 15 before I feel one…I’ll notice less pain and arthritis but no ‘stoned ‘ feeling under 20-25mg, edibles.
I can also honestly say I do NOT hate the side effects! :slight_smile:

29

Anecdotally, I’ve never found cannabis helped for my chronic pain.

Perhaps it helps for very specific subtypes of pain, or for pain within those whose neurobiological makeup responds positively to pot.

I’ve found certain types of acute pain i.e

  • a broken bone.
  • cracked tooth
  • bruised rib
  • getting beaten up/punched/submitted
  • dislocation
    it can help

For acute on chronic pain

  • torn tendons
  • torn muscles
  • torn cartilage
  • sublaxation (repeated)

it makes things worse

For chronic pain

  • nerve compression/entrapment
  • joint degeneration
  • dislocating ribs pinching intercostal nerves
  • ligament tear/strain
  • SI joint irritation

etc

Makes it MUCH worse.

The funny thing is, going by the literature available there is scant evidence available in favor of cannabis being used as a painkiller… much less a potent painkiller. Some evidence to suggest it could reduce opiate use after big operations… But you’re generally only on opiates for a week… two weeks MAX if it was a really big op. In Australia now you only get enough for 1-2 days… MAYBE 3 days. So adding weed to that seems unnecessary given how you will never get addicted from 10-15 Percocet

Otherwise, it is effective for cancer related nausea from chemo, maybe certain subtypes of cancer pain.

But there are no large scale trials to my knowledge supporting cannabis use as a first line tool in the arsenal of a pain physician. Yet the issue has been politicized and polarized. American’s are trying SO hard to get rid of opiates that they’re implementing guidelines, policies and recommendations based on little to no substantiative groundwork.

CDC 2016 guidelines actually led to a huge uptick in overdose, addiction and suicide. A group of morons decided to go after chronic pain patients as opposed to going after drug dealers and rehabilitating addicts.

In place of painkillers, there is also scant evidence covering long term use. However the dogma that they “don’t work at all long term”. Actually can’t be substantiated either. There is arguably more evidence available looking at opiates for pain management covering timeframes of 6-18 months available than there is quality data that comes to the conclusion cannabis is effective for pain management. Other largely ineffective modalities being pushed like pot is being pushed to treat pain are

  • SSRI/SNRI drugs, esp duloxetine. Effective for very specific subtypes of pain within patients with very select disorders i,e fibromyalgia. Even then, it usually isn’t particularly effective. While there is a proposed mechanism behind NRI and pain relief, it is interesting as to how the chronic pain disorders duloxetine usually ‘helps’ for are disorders that are frequently said to plausibly have a large overlapping psychiatric component.
  • gabapentin/Lyrica (once again, very specific set of disorders, not very effective even when legitimately indicated, both… but particularly Lyrica tend to be ridden with adverse affects.
  • Trycyclic antidepressants (give me a break)… and tend to be very sedating

What does work for pain (depending on condition)

  • low dose naltrexone
  • ketamine infusion (in hospital)
  • corticosteroids (shots, pills)
  • paracetamol
  • nsaids
  • opiates/opiods
  • nerve blocks

etc

People really need to stop pretending like weed is the holy grail. Maybe it’s the holy grail for YOU… or do you just like getting high? (i’m not talking about you @lamehack) i’m addressing everyone.

Pot might take you away from the pain, but that’s not really a reduction in pain… The truth is, weed isn’t proven to be all that great for chronic pain. It probably makes you care less about pain. Yes I have read about potential pain blunting mechanisms of THC/CBD. Looking at an isolated mechanism in rodent models, in vitro modelling etc. doesn’t necessarily correlate to how a treatment/compound affects a live sample size of… humans…

To further hone in my point, I’ll come back tomorrow and link studies on weed and pain vs other conventional modalities (NSAID, corticosteroids, opiates, nerve blocks etc) and pain relief.

30

based on my personal experience with chronic back pain/sciatic nerve pain, which i battled for a year, I came to a sound conclusion that a lot of chronic pain (and many other chronic health issues) are mainly psychological. mainstream healthcare very slowly starts to pick on this.
this isn’t to say that the same is true for acute pain, cancer related pain etc.
but your body tends to heal all injuries within a specific time-frame.
what I noticed that during my time when I had the sciatic pain, weed made it about 10x worse.
I talked recently to a experienced surgeon which deals with post accident issues, and he agreed.
your general outlook/positivity does seem play a role in this.
my initial research on my back pain filled me with a lot of doom/gloom. go into any backpain forums/talks, and people no matter what they do just can’t get out of this. after having an MRI which discovered a l4/l5 disc degeneration I initially swallowed the idea - my back is just ‘bad’ and I’m fucked.
later on i searched and searched, as the doctor recommended steroid spinal injections - which are completely worthless and counterproductive.
eventually I stumbled upon John Sarno, a deceased now doc, which had good success ‘curing’ patients.
there is so much material in his books, it is hard to summarize it all. but he referenced a danish study where random healthy people, with no pain had back MRI’s. half of them had a lot of issues on the scans, herniations, degenerations but none of them had any sort of pain.
he floated the idea that the pain is purely emotional, due to anger/stress/rage which can stem from any time since the day you have been born. according to Sarno your body will create mild ischemias in different parts of your body to distract you from the negative emotions. it is sort of a substitute, which is considered less dangerous then the emotions.
I picked up on the idea and rejected this whole disc degeneration issue. i started to work out hard, where before i wouldn’t do anything. initially after gym workouts, my pain got much worse. which according to Sarno is a defense mechanism. but eventually you will break it.
it took mi couple of months (4 or so) but eventually the pain left for the most. i had recurrences here and there, but with proper mental techniques i was able to stop the pain sometime within minutes.
as of today, i have absolutely 0 pain. even when taking cialis or weed which always made it worse.
now some could argue that my back eventually healed, but as you know discs do not regenerate. I am convinced that if I went the mainstream route, i would be still in pain, maybe much worse. my story is mirrored by a lot of other people.
what essentially happens that once you acknowledge those emotions and ‘feel’ them, they become a non threat. your body then gives up on the distraction and the pain leaves.
even people who had accidents decades ago can be cured by this. it turns out that long after the acute injury is healed, often times your body will create pain in that area which is sort of a trick.
only about of 10% of people accepted Sarno’s emotional diagnosis, but of those 10% virtually everyone was healed.
I am so thankful for this discovery, as I have absolutely no physical issues today. and I was battling all kind of back sciatic pains every year, and it was getting worse each time. I’m 44 and it all started at the age of 27 or so.
it takes a leap of faith to go this route, as most people will just go the easy route ‘it is my body’
now, I am only speaking about long lasting chronic pain where your body healed. acute is a different story. Sarno lists all kind of health issues which can be cured by this, arthritis, IBS, migraines, back/neck pain, the list goes on.
he even alludes to the idea, that cancers etc are part of this, and back pain is just a mild form of what he calls ‘TMS’

31

Here’s a case for ya.
Post thermal 4th degree burn in 1991< ninety one<
,doctors tried everything from Morin to oxymorphone, three spinal cord stim implants+ a morphind pump - nothing helped the RSD from a fourth degree burn. I discovered RSO two years ago and between it and some gummies things are better controlled than they ever were with opioids, morphine , Percocet, ms-contin, OxyContin, everything in between, plus a range of fibromyalgia and anti-seizure medicines, anti-anxiety meds and SSRI’s.
Perhaps it’s not great for each individual but if it helped all I have. I’m certain cannabis has anti-inflammatory properties, and can soothe an array of other symptoms.
Maybe it won’t help all who try but it has sure helped this man.

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32

Some cannabinoids within cannabis have anti inflammatory properties

However aside from that, the distinct mechanisms by which cannabis work on that relieve pain have yet to be determined.

Cannabis does relieve pain… depending on what is causing the discomfort

Stomach pain and nausea from chemo? Great!

Broke a bone, had surgery and want to take less oxy? Probably works to help decrease opiate intake

Have chronic pain from marfans syndrome or something? I doubt weed helps…

Unless you have a unique predisposition to certain types of mental illness… got nothing to lose from TRYING it for pain

I personally found it’s better for recreational use. Does nothing for my pain. Only time I’ve found it helped for pain is when i’ve had operations that involve cutting into bone/having metalwork put in.

I believe it helps you, there are too many patient testimonies from people claiming that it helps for me to dismiss cannabis as a potential therapeutic modality for the treatment of chronic pain.

There are people with my condition who claim it helps them!

I’m sorry you’ve had to go through such an ordeal. I’m glad you’ve found relief

I wasn’t trying to denounce cannabis as medicinal in its entirety. However the claims “cannabis is the holy grail for conditions A through Z, for all subtypes of pain” etc.

There’s just no evidence to back it up. As someone with ehlers danlos syndrome… I wish it worked! I’ve smoked my fair share, ESPECIALLY towards the end of high school!

Once smoked cannabis laced with PCP (unwillingly), I was seventeen… one of the main reasons as to why I’m a proponent for legalisation. Lacing pot is rare, but where I live it’s not unheard of (albeit still rare) for cannabis to be laced with crystal meth.

I have family members who have smoked joints that were laced with opium (cough including myself once cough cough). I’ve also heard of cannabis being laced with spice (synthetic cannabis, this stuff can actually kill) etc.

Pot is far more benign relative to meth, synthetic cannabis… opium itself isn’t particuarly potent, opium is the latex from papaver somniferum. Opium is around 10% morphine by dry weight, also contains codeine, oripavine, thebaine (the latter two are quote toxic if ingested to any reasonable degree).

I’m about to go on a tangent.

Papaver somniferum and papaver segiterum are arguably the only two species that contain a significant amount of usable psychoactive alkaloids right from harvest

Papaver bracteatum can be harvested by pharmaceutical companies due to high concentrations of thebaine which is in turn used to make numerous semi synthetic pain meds like buprenorphine, hydromorphone, hydrocodone etc

My knowledge here has nothing to do with an interest in taking drugs as some might infer. I just find science interesting

This includes plants. The poppy i’m growing is called Meconopsis betonicifolia (himalayan blue poppy).

It’s a flower of the Papaveraceae family (around 775 different species of flowers fall into here). Here’s the kicker… they’re worth quite a lot of money if you can grow them successfully.

They generally thrive in cool, mois environments with only partial exposure to sunlight. They grow to around 60cm tall (almost 2 feet)… they take 450-500 days to mature, after which they flower for a few days

Why grow these if they only flower for a few days?

They are beautiful flowers… but… if you can manage to keep one alive for 400-450 days or so, look at how much each INDIVIDUAL plant goes for!

There are certain types of quadiciforms that take decades if not 100+ years to grow peoperly and they fetch thousands. But a himalayan blue poppy is a 1-2 year investment. You can grow THOUSANDS at a time with only minimal space requirements.

There’s more of a market for them relative to many quadiciforms/other rare plants. Just food for thought

Other plants/fungi/whatever that are suprisingly easy to grow and potentially profitable (provided you are willing to put in work are)

Oyster mushroom
Ginseng
San pedro cacti (may be illegal depending on where you live… and know people probably aren’t buying them because they look pretty)
Cycads are also insanely profitable long term if you can find a market. But also very laborous endeavour to grow and maintain.

A lot of slow growing cacti sell for $$$ too. But it’s a decade + long investment. Still… not hard to set up a tray full of tiny, slow growing cacti that hardly need watering…

If I can grow my himalayan blue poppies in AUSTRALIA I’ll be very impressed. Will be very difficult to keep them alive on 110+ F days

33

Yeah. A friend of mine was an anesthesiologist and among other things, ran a pain clinic.

His go to when it came to outlook is “Pain is unavoidable, but suffering is optional.” which I’ve also heard used in other context.

Some people feel anguish and a diminished sense of being due to pain. It becomes existential.

34

You can go pick these by the pound around here. In fact, if you find a nice fallen beech or ashe tree, the entire thing will be covered at certain times of the year.

Ive eaten them a few times. They’re good, but im usually after others when I run into them, so they’re incidental.

Whats the going story with them as far as medicinal value?

35

You go mushroom picking?

That’s risky, I really wouldn’t

For instance… say you are looking for the elm oyster Hypsizygus ulmarius

And instead you pick the Clitocybe Dealbata. Looks almost identical to elm mushroom. But it’s poisonous.

I’m using an example that is relevant to you as both of these mushrooms grow in North America.

It’s common for young people to grow mushroom picking around my university (if you catch my drift) because those types of mushrooms grow in Australia. There have been a number of high profile cases here that have led to state and federal level politicians amongst medical boards, mycologists and more warning young people of the dangers associated with foraging for mushrooms

Young person is looking for magic mushrooms… they consume a death cap

Older people going out to pick edible, non psychoactive mushrooms for fun? They wind up consuming poisonous look a likes.

Not saying it’s likely to happen, but the subtle differences present between a mushroom that is good for you… and a mushroom that will leave you tachycardic, feverish, puking your guts out, involuntarily twitching and jerking makes mushroom picking a dangerous hobby

If I recall, you are very knowledgable within the field of mycology. I once sent you a picture of a GIANT mushroom on the farmland I live on and you were able to identify it through a picture. That was very impresive considering I don’t believe it was an edible mushroom… just a random, odd looking, puffy mushroom that I spent hours poking and prodding at for fun.

I’m currently growing cordycepts mushrooms from scratch (PF tek method) and I have liquid culture for oyster mushrooms. I THINK liquid culture is similar to a spore syringe. Correct me if i’m wrong

I was hoping to simply innocuoate my sterilised jars full of substrate with the liquid culture.

Ya, so oyster mushrooms (there are numerous different types) were used in the context of traditional chinese medicine. Prescribed for strengthening circulation, relaxing muscles and joints, improving kidney function. This was thousands of years ago before modern medical treatment modalities were available. I will get into this later today when I have time

I have to go now. Will respond in depth soon.

What we know NOW… oyster mushrooms definately have benefits… aside from strengthening immune system

Biggest health benefit imo… a secondary metabolite of oyster mushrooms (Pleurotus ostreatus) is monacolin K… otherwise known as lovastatn.

Not a treatment for familial hypercholesterolemia… you need decent doses of statins. But look at studies published and you’ll notice intake of just a regular dose of oyster mushrooms leads to a statistically significant drop in triglycerides and a large drop in oxidised LDL

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36

Pfft. Noob. Not even close.
Thats like mistaking a jack-o-lantern for a chanterelle.

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These are the local variety. Those were actually really good now that I’m thinking about it.

Can’t have a conversation about shrooms without this:

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A nice slice of Maitake & steak!

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That’s EXACTLY how rare I like my steak!

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38

Wow that’s an intense post!
Thx for the time in reply

Here’s an amazing thing that happened.
Some folks prayed for me - laid on hands - it stopped hurting that very hour.

Now I need to tell every crowd and individual the story where possible.
I’m going to do another post right here to cover it right after I hit “reply”

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39

This excerpt from a document composed for church regarding why I no longer need anything for the Reflex synthetic Dystrophy pain in my hand that had hurt since July 91–>

“
But then, a miracle happened.

Yesterday, 5/15/2023, I again went to the Church of xyz -Catholic Church Healing Prayers group for prayer.
Somehow while praying for me, a lady I barely knew, so help me God, called out to God for me in prayer with no way of knowing, a list of the specific needs I have prayed for over three years. …

I had not asked for actual healing of my hand for a very long time - years – instead I prayed for the strength to endure it and for decreased pain which, thank God and thank all the prayer warriors at St H and Incarnation, plus others, I now have very decreased pain, as in NONE remaining of the nerve damage pain, only arthritis that would be there anyway.

I did ask them to pray for my actual hand. I was very hesitant, but I asked. During the prayer, I found myself holding a new college grad, “Becca’s”, hand with my bad one, something I’d rarely allow, and they prayed for it intensely for what I would estimate was ten minutes.

WHILE they were praying I was somehow, amazingly, able to move my fingers and hand without the typical popping, cracking, and pain in the joints that had been the case for no less than 20 years. By the time the prayers were finished, it was soon much better. Becca said when I grabbed her hand it got very hot to her touch. I, however, did not feel that. I later discovered her entire body had gotten very hot during the prayer.
Like every day forever, my pain level had been no less than a 4 of 10, sometimes soaring to 9+. By the time “amen” was said, it was at 1 and remains so 16 hours later. How amazing is that?!!

I am honestly awestruck. I of course had faith in God’s ability to heal, but to experience it has taken a minute to sink in. Wow!

My Lord ya all,

Here is the summary: My hand has been healed! I can move my fingers better, my wrist doesn’t snap, crackle, or pop when rolled, and I can touch things with what has been a hypersensitive palm for 32 years, 8 months, 14 days, 20 hours. But THE biggest thing is, the pain level remains at 1. I am so very happy to be able to say that! Hallelujah Praise Jesus Lord God Almighty!

I can only thank God
“

In addition to all that my grip has now returned.
I’m tearing out a wall on our second floor to restore an original loft bedroom and today just for kicks and to know, I put that fist right through it :slight_smile:
I’m so effin happy!

40

Is it actually called the church of xyz? A church decided to name itself after the last three letters of the alphabet?

41

Holy shit, reflex sympathetic dystrophy… I didn’t realize that’s another term for CRPS (chronic regional pain syndrome)… that’s considered to be one of the most painful conditions in the world

Like it’s actually considered than amputation and childbirth according to the mcgill pain scale

It should be noted CRPS can go into remission and/or go away spontaneously in some people. 2-3% of cases are considered “relapsing-remitting”.

But if it has gone away… great… I personally doubt it was the prayer, more likely a coincidence. Whatever the case, I’m happy for you… CRPS/RSD is accurately described as “hell on earth”

It should be noted. Cannabis does help with pain for CRPS. In your particular case, it makes a lot of sense as to why it helped as cannabis is known to be very helpful for pain associated with CRPS

if the pain ever comes back, a ketamine infusion (sub-anesthetic dose) can also help with this type of pain

Spinal cord stimulators can also help, but requires an operation… If the pain has completely gone away, there’s a good chance it never comes back. The disease eventually goes away for 30% who acquire CRPS, but while you’ve got it… it’s apparently the worst of the worst of the worst in terms of pain severity.

My heart goes out to you… I’m so, so, so, so sorry you’ve had to go through this

42

@heretolog
Cute joke.
No, it is called “The Church (undisclosed details) Catholic Church”