Does It Make Sense for Me to Try TRT?

Hi,

I’m 30 years old. I recently had labs done with the following results:

Testosterone: 642 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 17 ng/dl
Estradiol: 23.2 ng/l

It wouldn’t surprise me if my test is usually higher. I had the test done in the morning, but after a heavy workout the night before and I had been losing some weight.

I’m gotten reasonably strong without PEDs. I’ve squatted in the 500s for 5s, pulled 650, pressed 225 and benched 315, all at 6’0, 210-225lbs.

My interest in TRT is not for aesthetics or gym performance. I’ve had low libido for years, very very rarely have morning erections. I also suffer from debilitating anxiety and panic attacks. I’m hoping that TRT could be helpful.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice? I found a reputable clinic and booked a consultation, but I’d like to be more informed before going in.

Has TRT helped anyone with anxiety, even with a “normal” test measurement?

EDIT: Also, if it’s relevant, my T3 and T4 are on the very high end of the reference ranges at 3.9 ng/l and 1.8 ng/dl respectively.

Normal T levels… seeking TRT? Do people without cancer take chemo therapy? I know, not the same, but I am trying to make a point. You’re young, strong, and for all intents and purposes do not seem to have normal TRT alleviating symptoms.

Anxiety… seek a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Edit: For what its worth TRT did nothing for my anxiety. SSRIs work great for me though.

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Umm no, it doesn’t make sense for you to go on TRT. To clarify, no one should be ‘trying TRT’ either.

BUT if looking at it for a sports performance perspective, you’re an animal with solid test levels. While I wouldn’t want to risk throwing that away for something that may not improve your quality of life, I wouldn’t shame you for jumping on “Sports TRT”.

Addressing this could help you a good bit.

TRT to help reduce anxiety? Sure, it helped me a bit. It’s an off label use for it though - I mean you could just as easily take up drinking to reduce anxiety. Just saying.

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I tried that. The wife did not agree :rofl:

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Normal T levels… seeking TRT?

What initially motivated me to look into it is that “normal” is completely arbitrary and based on reference ranges that continue to drop. Maybe there is some environmental factor dropping my T from 1.2k to 600. I don’t know. What’s important is if there is a possibility to feel better on TRT, without incurring a bunch of side effects.

For what its worth TRT did nothing for my anxiety. SSRIs work great for me though.

You’re on TRT so it’s probably not relevant. But for someone who is not on TRT – why would taking a poorly understood medication that kills libido be helpful to someone with low libido? I’d rather just be anxious forever than take SSRIs.

Addressing this could help you a good bit.

How can it be addressed aside from cutting my thyroid out?

I should stress that I don’t expect TRT to cure my problems… but if it helps my anxiety by 25%, that would be great.

And you don’t know what side effects you will incur until you get on it. Some of those side effects never go away, and considering you’ve got pretty impressive test levels - I really don’t see the risk/reward paying out the way you want it to.

Thyroid meds. I’m not knowledgeable about them as I haven’t needed them, but they exist and are presribe-able.

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No its not. You are not in the grey area at all. Your T levels fluctuate constantly so your drop could be timing from lab pulls etc. You have much to learn before spouting back with nonsense.

No, of course my history and personal experience is irrelevant to you. So if everybody’s experience is irrelevant why ask on a forum? The point is, my experience was that I had anxiety before TRT and, like you, had hoped TRT would fix that amongst other things. It did not. The difference between us is that you have double the TT/FT levels I had.

TRT is not a drug to treat the main symptom of anxiety. In fact too much T can actually cause or make it worse for some guys. You have a lot to learn, soak up the info. ExcelMale has a lot more stickies than this site for basic knowledge… which you need.

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I thought that way too until it got really bad. If it is bad enough there is no way you would be saying this. I am glad it is not too bad for you. Some things are way worse than low libido.

5 mg/day escitalopram here. Really helped me. Learned the hard way.

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No its not. You are not in the grey area at all.

But this is assuming the reference ranges are an accurate representation of optimal testosterone levels.

You have much to learn before spouting back with nonsense.

Yes, I know very little about hormones, but your replies do not make complete sense to me.I will look at ExcelMale to see if I can learn more. From the little I have researched, there are some doctors (Dr. Nichols, Dr. Wittmer) who advocate TRT based on symptoms and argue that a normal measured value doesn’t mean much.

I thought that way too until it got really bad. If it is bad enough there is no way you would be saying this. I am glad it is not too bad for you. Some things are way worse than low libido.

I don’t know. I’ve had many panic attacks over the last year – I think that constitutes as bad. But I’m sure it could be worse.

Running 180mg/wk gave me some anxiety and intrusive thoughts. Dropping to 140mg/wk has helped.

@adlks Your responses here make me think that you are looking for validation to start, rather than actual opinions.

Then you have no business making this decision. Hang out on the forums, participate in conversations, learn, and then make an educated decision.

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This is because the normal range is approx 300ng/dl - 1200ng/dl. Some guys in the 300s and even 400s of TT are clinically in range. Normal docs won’t treat them. Yet they have all the symptoms of low T. These guys usually have lower FT as well. They are in a grey area where you look at symptoms too. Your levels are not grey.

For someone that is anti SSRI I would try talk therapy combined with a light rescue medication for panic attacks. I know this is miserable I suffered for years. I can understand your want to alleviate it but TRT is not your magic bullet sir.

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Admittedly, you are somewhat correct. Still a valuable thread for me as I’m looking at the ExcelMale resources now and am beginning to question even “trying” TRT.

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Your first mistake is believing TRT is a cure all, a panacea. You panic attacks and anxiety are likely causing your low libido. Any treatment using antidepressants, SSRI’s can cause low libido.

Unlikely and even has the potential to make the anxiety worse.

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I resonate with others in the fact that TRT didn’t cure my anxiety/OCD symptoms. It helped a bit for libido but this was mostly during the honeymoon phase that doesn’t last very long.

Loss of libido is not a given with SSRI use although it is an undesirable side effect for many. If you’re worried about taking SSRI’s, talk to your doctor about other anxiolytics from a different category, such as Buspirone or Bupropion which are anxiolytics/antidepressants but don’t seem to inhibit libido. But before doing anything talk to a knowledgeable doctor - psychiatrist and also go get your thyroid checked further based on your numbers. Symptoms caused by a malfunctioning thyroid can be multiple and all of those that you are currently experiencing.

If you dive into TRT, you may not be alleviated from your symptoms, will have to be pinning exogenous testosterone for the rest of your life AND take thyroid medication and/or antidepressants to alleviate your initial symptoms.

Following Occam’s razor: the simplest explanation that will account for a circumstance or event is most likely the correct explanation. And from the lab report you presented above have your thyroid looked at first, talk to a physiologist/psychiatrist and only then consider TRT since your numbers are well within range. What is your shbg by the way?

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You know, these are kind of connected.
When i was only doing Muay Thai training and i did only upper body bodybuilding at the gym, my libido was criminally high. By criminally i mean - i woke up in the middle of the night with such agressive rape tougths that an idea of raping someone to death and then continuing the process seemed like an actually good idea, and many time i actually had the idea in my head that “now its 3AM, there probably is some girl comming home from a night shift and absolutelly no one else on the street”. I am sure in those years, i was only like 0,5% away from getting locked up for murder and rape.

Ever since i started powerlifting, my libido slowly decreased every year, as i got stronger. I used to have like 10 tinder dates a week, at midnights after 2-3 training sessions, and i was super hyped for every girl i could get.
Now, i dont even bother having sex if i feel like i ate too much, or i feel like im a bit tired.
I was having sex 5 times a day, as a minimum. Many years, 4-5 times with 2-3 different women a day, was a minimum and i still woke up at nights wanting to actually try a real rape, so i had to jerk off 1-2 times a night extra. Now, im ok with once a day, and if no, im ok with it.

Unless the person is genetically blessed with recovery from heavy lifting, i really believe that lifting heavy, is what destroys libido.
My libido has gone downhill during the last 3 years. The only thing that has changed is that i actually lift heavy nowdays. And my age has gone from 30 to 33, so i don think my libido has diminished so hard because of the age.

Also, i am on steroids, and especially tren, which is the drug that gives you the rapey toughts. But as you can see, as soon as i got stronger and i lift heavy, even tren and test in high dosages cant save it.
Steroids are not magic, they just help with what you have but they wont give you what you dont have. If you have specific problems or weakness, steroids wont fix that in any way. In fact, there are guys who have so many crazy sides from them, that maybe its not even worth even trying as you might not get any benefits but all the sides.

What i would suggest is… deload more often. Do more cardio. Do less lower body heavy training.
There is a reason why such legendary guys as Lilliebridges only Squat or Deadlift once every 14 days. I think that is worth a try. Use the extra day to work on some abs, stretches and skill up your cardio.

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There is a reason why such legendary guys as Lilliebridges only Squat or Deadlift once every 14 days.

I’m not far behind. I do a single set of squats once a week, and a single set of deadlifts once every 10-14 days. I do more upper body volume – but that’s much easier to recover from, and I’m not as strong on those lifts as well.

I’ve also had periods where I did not lift heavy for many months due to injury, and I didn’t feel better.

An interesting thought and observation, though, I’m glad you brought it up. Really, I aim for the minimum effective dose when I lift.

Well injury is a stress to CNS exactly the same way.
People always wonder why they dont feel rested after they had time off when sick or injured.
But thats the thing - you wont be rested after being sick or injured because even tho you were maybe in bed, your body was constantly repairing the damage, exactly the same way it does after training. While you were sleeping, your body was working overtime to heal and repair the injury. It is tired and fucked hard.
Also when we are sick and dont train, we also tend to eat more shit foods and poison our body even more. So not only was it working overtime, it also probably didnt get enough fresh air, cardio for bloodflow, not enough water and good food.
Our CNS reacts to stress and stimuli. It doesnt really care if it has to repair your muscle because it was chest day or because it was a tear. The process is similar and the stress is even greater.
With all things into consideration, comming back from an injury might actually mean that your CNS was under more stress than it would be if you were training.

So no… time off because of illness, injury or lets say - work, or a newborn baby, is NOT time off. Its just a different type of stress.
And stress is a #1 factor for low libido and ED.

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Do you believe though there is some calories surplus/deficit at play here? What happens if you eat enough and lift heavy enough?

What about doing less lifting and more cardio but also eating less trying to get shredded?

No, in my opinion and personal experience, food has very little to do with it.
What i talk about, when i say “lifting heavy” is not the actual exercise or fact of being in the gym, but the total strain on the nervous system. You see, people can be completely demolished just working in an office. But if they are easily triggered and stress a bit more than an average person, plus they have problems at home, their sleep sucks or they have sleep apnea, they can experience all the same overtraining symptoms.

Food, unless is like way too little or way too much, has nothing to do with nervous system. In fact, i believe that eating in a surplus puts a strain on a digestive system, which is very large organ system in our body, which also ads to the CNS fatigue.

Similar like when people get massive burns. If you look closely, you will understand that actual burns cant kill people. They are mostly a problem to the layers of the skin, BUT…if the burn is massive enough, people die. They dont die because their heart is burned or their organs are burned. They die, because skin is sensitive, and the CNS goes into the shock because of the large area that is now producing pain, and has to be repaired, which strains the CNS and it basically just throws an Error and shuts off.

The CNS adapts very little or not at all. That is why when people start to train they can deadlift every day, but when they get super strong, they sometimes deadlift super rare. The CNS is the same, but the person is strong enough to lift 10 times as much, so the damage to the CNS is 10 times as much.
Eating more recovers muscle, but in a way it also strains the organ system. Being heavier than you were supposed to - also does it. Every muscle that has to be moved and triggered when you lift, is controlled by nervous system.
Basically the more it has to do, the more it is fucked.

In many ancient cultures, fasting was a way to go, when you felt sick.
In fact, how do you know that an animal is feeling bad? It stops eating. When you dont eat, you preserve the energy that is wasted on digestion.

The part i said about how i felt before powerlifting, i was shredded. I was single digit bodyfat, i have tons of pics which i also have posted many times. I fasted. And most time i was in a caloric deficit.
I believe that eating less might be less stress. And i also think that cardio stuff strains us less than lifting weights, because we as a species were ment to do “cardio” in nature, but we were never ment to lift heavy.

I am not saying this is 100% true, but going by my personal experience - my levels of energy, my sleep, my libido, my agression - all went downhill the bigger and stronger i got. I ate more, i even upped the drugs, introduced growth hormone. It does very little for the “feeling good” being energic and having agressive libido.

There is also one thing to consider. Bodybuilders complain about this much more rarely than strength athletes. Which again, goes back to lifting heavy.

Idk if any of you have had this but i have - after hitting a new PR on a deadlift, i get depressed for 2-3 days, sometimes go down with flu like sypthoms. I almost never got sick when i was fighting 2-3 times a day, always banged up, etc.

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What are the ranges? I am more concerned with the FT ranges. My labs go from like 10-25 IIRC. That would put you in the middle.

Your testosterone levels and libido are likely related to your activities. You are lifting heavy, and losing weight. Both things are tough on Testosterone and libido.

I find it hard to believe that someone squatting and deadlifting the numbers you mention (if true) doesn’t have an interest in the gym performance aspect.

I’ll just give you my personal experience here. I went on TRT for some mental issues like anxiety, depression, concentration / brain fog, and for gym performance (it’s okay to want both haha). My total is comparable to you if using gym lifts (a bit over 1500 lbs), so I consider myself a gym rat. Improving my lifting was part of the consideration. My TT was about 400 ng/dL and FT was about 10-12 with several tests.

That is why I started. The benefits I got were related to gym performance and body composition. I got very little out of TRT in regards to mental health. I thought it was a cure all.

What has helped with the mental health stuff is working with a shrink. I now think a lot of my issues were executive function issues related to ADHD. Treating that has improved my mental heath issues far better than TRT did. It is paradoxical, but stimulant medication has vastly improved my anxiety. I sleep much better now. I am not up all night with nervousness and racing thoughts. I don’t feel nearly as depressed about life.

Perhaps TRT might fix your issues. I am just saying a lot of people are disappointing that it didn’t.

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