He’s had some of the same guests as Rogan but I believe his interviews with them are superior to Rogan’s.
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Yes, but as more of a general comment considering the greater dialogue than an attack it seems to have come across as.
Exactly why the dialogue needs to change. Sex itself isn’t a problem, but trained reactions to it can be.
I don’t spend much time with poor people. I do see abuse and assault as a problem, but this is outside the scope of the original question.
I believe you. My post isn’t trying to say women are lying about those things. But, I believe the reality is that most people require a spark of attraction as well. It doesn’t necessarily mean women all want the same things either, sometimes it’s even something like passion for a common interest (just saying it’s not only physical, but physical traits are a common cause of the lack of spark). This may seem obvious, but to many boys and men it isn’t. We are programmed to think women don’t care at all about characteristics that are unrelated to personality. That if you have these personality characteristics, and you are genuine and kind, that you can win the woman you care about over. Disney movies, rom coms, and what women tell you what they want in a man are consistent with that programming, and they all seem to leave out that the man needs to be attractive to the women. That without that, all of those other things will rarely matter. Many men have been in the friend zone wondering why she isn’t interested in them when she says she wants these things like caring, kind and funny, and they are those things. But they lack whatever it is that causes that spark of chemistry for her. That’s the part they are missing. They just don’t do it for her in some way.
I’m not saying this to put women down. Those things are what women want, they just like men also almost always require the chemistry of attraction. Men also want a kind, funny and caring women. Media and men just don’t leave out the part that men need attraction as part of the deal.
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I always find it strange when women say this.
The man can be 400lbs and 5’0, and have all of these characteristics. Do we think the ladies are clamoring over this individual?
It’s okay to want a partner who is all of the above traits but is also physically attractive. Why it’s taboo to say this is wild; it would probably help a lot of those lonely dudes to hear this (coming from women).
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It would have helped the teenage version of me tremendously.
I get it though. It’s pretty brutal just telling someone you don’t find them attractive. It isn’t a smart thing to do either when the person you’re telling that to is roughly twice as strong as you and on average 30 lbs heavier.
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No, the slut-shaming isn’t the main problem, though it is one. It’s that they thought they were getting love and then found out the guy bragged about the score and mocked them. He wasn’t in love. He was horny. She wasn’t his dream girl. She was just easy. Most of these girls are anorgasmic and continue having issues into adulthood. “Pump & dump,” which I hate to even type out. In children’s mental health services it was often said that “boys anger out” and “girls anger in.” Unloved girls look for love via sex, but unloved boys are not capable of doing more than hurting them in most cases. And then there are the predators, which are many. And let’s face it, the boys can become these predators.
You say abuse and neglect are outside of the scope of the original question and I disagree. I believe people are attributing to girls who’ve had rough starts, romantically speaking, qualities that I disagree are evolutionary or their fault. I believe we start with compassion, and demand more of our boys. The “red pill” industry that’s sprung up around girls being hounded for sex by boys who feel supported in their own promiscuity is dismaying. And it’s on display on these boards and in this thread.
Again, I have no judgment of an adult woman who just likes getting laid and is able to provide for her financial and emotional needs without a partner. Who cares? But I don’t think we’re talking about an adult here (by which I probably mean 25+) who just loves calling for some booty, then settling into her own quiet home for the evening, alone. I think we’re talking about very young women, who some of the posters on this board feel are “ruined” by the time they’re 25, at which point the “simps” have to suffer them. And so they are further degraded by men who supposedly want or love them, but who secretly resent them for having followed their so-called evolutionarily-compelled desire for alphas. When what it is, is that the “alphas” indicated warmth and love and the girls thought it was meaningful. Then in many cases found themselves laughingstocks the following day.
It steams me, frankly.
Oh, of course! I assumed that was…assumed. I also want common interest, lol. And have been in a long relationship where attraction was absent but I was too young to know that it existed. I was with my first boyfriend from 16-23. He was my best friend and I loved his family. I didn’t know I wasn’t attracted to him because I hadn’t experienced attraction yet. That poor guy! I was in my 40’s when I realized he never was my type. My friends were talking about young Prince as sexy after he died and I had this epiphany that Jimmy - fit and handsome, kind of a young Michael J Fox type - is a Johnny Depp/Prince type. I like more ape-like men, I guess. The bodybuilder type rather than the runner. (LOL)
Again, I wasn’t trying to deceive. I read the question as “who will admit they want a successful man?” And…me. I also want a man who matches me in other regards. I have difficulty being objective about myself, looks-wise, but I put myself at a 7/10 historically, but with an awkward bent. Curly/frizzy hair, glasses. But I’ve had a slamming body always, relative to my peers. At this point I’d put myself at 8/10 for non-Hollywood people, maybe even a little higher, because my peer group is falling apart and glasses are not as problematic (this is so culturally as well, girls in glasses DO get passes). Anyway, what’s my point? Oh, him. I want a guy who is as healthy as me and who has passions. They don’t need to be my passions. My husband doesn’t work out, but he’s an outdoorsman and is strong and capable. I don’t know where he’d fall on the 1/10 scale, but we’re a couple that matches physically.
Again, I assumed that did not need to be said. I like healthy, appealing, successful, men who can cook, as I can. I don’t like men who pretend it’s some sort of voodoo magic and so opt out of the daily task. I like that we do this together instead. I like active vacationing and long weekend hikes. I like to play badminton and volleyball and kickball with our family, which is large enough to field these games. I like men like me.
Is that deceptive somehow? I get the feeling there’s some sort of “gotcha!” in these last posts, haha.
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I would add that I agree deceit is problematic.
I would still suggest this is outside the scope of the original question, however. If the question was “does a loss of trust due to deceptive ‘hook-up’ tactics matter?” I would say yes. I would also imagine the conversation in general would have a different flavor.
I’m having a hard time reconciling these statements under the same banner. One is a result of the deceit discussed above and possible violent abuse, which is problematic as well.
The other follows the theme of the question as I interpret it around ‘hook-up’ culture.
I admittedly don’t entirely know what “red pill” culture is and have a vague understanding of ‘incel’ amd some of the other weird shit you only hear on the Internet, but given other posts by the OP around hook-up culture, female empowerment et cetera I understood this post as a discussion about your two friends and people like them.
Regarding abusive behavior, I would circle back to comments around alcoholism as a disease vs non-alcoholics imbibing for pleasure. They both discuss the consumption of alcohol but really aren’t the same topic at all.
Yes, they are many, which is why I am puzzled there is pushback at the thought of oversight and protection by male family members. I wanted your insight on something because I respect what you have to say. You raised four children. I am still raising only two, and they are still very young.
Do young women not know who is a bullshit artist or a threat and who isn’t? Though I cannot possibly read every person I meet with 100% accuracy, I believe I am adept at it. So, in this case, I can smell a predator or lowlife who simply wants to “pump and dump”. All I need is a look over and a small amount of time with one. And like you, I have dealt with all socioeconomic classes, in and out of work, and have seen up close the results of lack of discernment and impulsiveness.
Is it really too much to ask for a young woman to bring around a man she is interested in. For example, she can say, “There is a guy I like,” and I would respond, “OK, sounds good. Introduce me.” Long ago, my uncle went on a date with a woman whose father took him aside, and asked, “What are your intentions with my daughter?” I believe these are normal inquiries and requests considering our mention of abusive, uncaring, and predatory men, and that women can get pregnant with risk of such men abandoning their children. I know one single mother whose daughter is the product of an irresponsible fling. Though he did not harm on the women and the daughter, he once wished it upon them in conversation!
Another example I have is that of my uncle’s neighbors. Their daughter and granddaughter now live with them after the divorce of the daughter and an abusive man. He had a restraining order put on him, but is now allowed to see the child. I asked my uncle, who is also a man who can easily smell a rat, “How could they not tell this about the guy before these two got involved?” He responded, “I don’t know. I guess some people just don’t have social and psychological acuity.”
And like you said, there are good people who make poor decisions. I believe that young women often cannot see threats or naively think acting on whim and hormones does not pose serious risk. And like I’ve routinely said, this is based on up-close observation and experience. But despite this, we’ve been told in threads that daughters do not need the authority of older male family members with decades more life experience who know good and bad men.
What do you think? Again, I am asking this because I respect what you have to say. You raised for children. I’m still doing the raising with much to go.
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I must have missed this statement. Sometimes these threads take off and the comments are significant from last read to present, and the notifications can get wonky.
Where is the post suggesting children do not need parental oversight?
I do not know exactly where but I recall posts in several threads which it was said young women do not need male authority.
I have a few female friends that have had a pattern of this. Not the next day that they are being mocked, but IMO, a lot of relationships that are short term fling type things, the guy had this in mind the whole time. In a few cases I’ve met the guys. I will probably not sound great here, but a commonality among these guys is that they were mismatched with my female friends. They were more attractive.
I assure you that it is not (for boys / men). I don’t want to come across as a tin foil hat guy on the internet, but we just don’t hear that part about attraction being a near universal requirement from media or women. We basically hear the opposite. We are taught that every woman operates like Bell from Beauty and the Beast. I think most guys do figure this out eventually with life experience. I don’t want to assume all guys are the same or like me, but I think guys that are stuck in the friend zone but are still hoping for a relationship often don’t understand this.
Another aspect is that since the attraction thing is often subconscious, it is downplayed as to how important it is, when in reality for most people it is required. The reality is most people are going to chose an asshole they are attracted to vs a kind, caring, funny person they aren’t attracted to. This applies to men and women, but many men in the friend zone have expressed frustration about women who say they want kind, caring and funny, but keep dating assholes that are none of those things. Why? Because attraction trumps those other things. Attraction is a requirement, not a nice to have for the majority of people.
People are willing to believe things they shouldn’t when they are involved with a potential mate that is attractive. Very attractive women can take advantage of men. Very attractive men can take advantage of women. The end result differs though. The men are usually taken advantage of for money, the women being taken advantage of are being used for sex.
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So I think we’ve shifted from ‘body count’ to psychology behind attraction.
I always find these conversations to be full of generalizations and analysis paralysis.
Life is made up of desires, hopes, dreams, victories, losses, excitement, disappointment and on and on. Including dating.
Just go live. And if he or she is “just not that in to you”, move on. It doesn’t have to be trigonometry.
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This 10/10. The conversations become carried by inarticulate terms that then prevent real inquest by insisting first on the validity of those outdated instruments. End result is a field of loose terms used as a playground for argument parkour regardless of the sharer’s merit. The problem isn’t really the nature of the conversation, but more that it outlives its usefulness in an environment like this one pretty quickly beyond a Poll. People in these instances are largely debating/defending their starting frameworks, not seeking to share middlegrounds or discover new opinions.
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This works when you live in a world in which results and outcomes don’t matter. In other words, it’s fantasy. Because, if every man you meet is not into you, maybe you are the one with a problem.
Yeah you probably are.
On the plus side for the sex is bad crowd, you’ll have a zero body count!
No, it’s just not that forthright. A lot of dudes would benefit from hearing things worded more openly instead of the usual “kind, funny, smart” trope.
Theres a large number of men who are kind, funny and smart, but are completely hopeless in the love department. If someone told these dudes “looks matter too”, they’d probably be less hopeless.
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How does one discuss psychology without generalizations? Lol
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How does one have a legitimate opinion without a quantifiable basis?
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You agree with me.
I already gave you one.