Do Meatheads Dream of Iron Sheep?

Training Over 35 Lifter
1741

Given the wide array of scenarios that can develop and “what if he did THIS” scenarios, I think it’s best to keep it simple. I lack the legal awareness to do anything but that.

Don’t start fights.
Be reasonable if someone starts one with you.
Protect yourself at all times.

Laws will vary in specifics, but one thing that will always be present (in the USA, at least) is the Reasonable Person Standard. It means exactly what it says. Can you stand in front of a judge and explain why you had to do what you did?

There’s no special bouncer laws, but a few things change the game up a little. First, I’m an agent of the establishment, which has the right to refuse service and ask someone to leave at any time for any reason. I have a right to be there, someone I don’t want in the bar doesn’t. If they refuse, I’m allowed to use reasonable force to remove them from the property. So is the owner. Or bartender, or bar back. We’re all agents of the establishment in that setting.

Just like a person at home. If I don’t like you and want you to leave my living room, I can shove you out the door (or any other reasonable response).

Some people commit assault during that process and sometimes before, so when that happens I defend myself in what I believe to be a reasonable manner. With no lawsuits, no arrests and only minor damage taken, I feel like I’m operating well when things go bad. I ABSOLUTELY could have “gotten away” with hurting people WAY more than I did, but I try to stay measured.

Quick side story, I had a cop lament my nice treatment to one guy who fought me. I told him what happened and he told me “You should have broken his arm”. Young cop, still full of questionable ideas, but a good kid. I ended up sitting next to his parents on a plane ride several months after. I didn’t mention anything about their kid’s bad advice to me. Nice folks, real proud parents.

If we think about the older guy who sat on the barbell in that video and pretend that he put hands on you, then you’re pretty much in the clear to defend yourself however you can manage. The guy’s a monster, and that matters. Break his bones, beat his body and choke him unconscious.
Whatever you need to do to stay safe. That’s a real threat who assaulted you. Powerful men can do life-altering damage in seconds, and the courts recognize this.

If a 12 year-old behaved the same way, it might be reasonable to hit them back. Breaking his bones and choking him unconscious, however, probably wouldn’t be. You might have a hard sell with that hit too, but it all depends on the circumstances.

Be reasonable. Be safe.

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1742

Thank you for such a well reasoned, well explained response.

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1743

Sunday 9/29/19

BJJ 90 min

First time breaking in the mats. I haven’t been logging much because I haven’t done much except for open mats (and shitty lifting) but I’m going to get diligent with it again. My new space needs work, but the mats fit and we’ve got even more space than we did before. Easily enough for two pairs to roll or one pair to do controlled stand-up.

My tape hasn’t arrived yet so they were a little shifty, but we still did work on the ground. Another white belt showed up who is friends with my instructor. Plenty of mat space!

Warm up with walk-around drill. From turtle, post on your right elbow and swing your right leg underneath your left leg. Then shift back into turtle. Back and forth, each direction over and around the head. When you get to the bottom, take mount by framing their hip with and connecting your knee to your elbow, then slice in and over into mount. Get hooks, touch your toes, posture up, be ready to base out wide.

We spent a little time explaining mount retention and drilling some basics with the new white belt, which is always good stuff to work on.

We looked at the walk-around armbar from north/south. The sequence goes like this. Pass the guard, go right into chest-to-chest side control. Use the walk-around to beat their frames and go north/south. Settle in and control with your elbows in their armpits. If they push up on one side, cycle your arm around and underhook the arm by cupping their armpit. Keep pulling them up wards to get them on their side, then trap their far-side arm with your off hand. Now step your knee over to pin that arm, then hug your other knee to their upper back and squeeze. Secure a kimura grip.

From here the kimura may be there as a joint attack. If it isn’t and their stuffing it down between their legs or other wise defending, go for the armbar. Underhook their arm deep, and hug it tight to your chest. Pivot the leg pinning their arm over their face and put your other shin on their kidney area, then finish the armbar. You can cycle that leg over too or finish with your knee in.

This is something I need to work on a lot more. It’s a good way for me to frustrate people into making mistakes that doesn’t require a ton of mobility or flexibility.

We rolled after that. A lot. The new white belt is doing good. I can “flow roll” pretty easily with newer students. No pressure, just let them work, give them positions they earned. I kept this up for 5 min before they tapped to exhaustion I think.

Little did they know I was smoked too. I’m in bad shape, haven’t been training enough!

Rolled a bunch with my instructor. Took a few small steps up the ladder, which is progress, but my moments in the sun are always brief. My instructor’s made a bit of a leap lately, and it shows. New stuff’s getting tried out.

I’m beat but I’m super psyched to have home mats. Now I just need to figure out how to set the space up. I’m going to move them perpendicular to how they are now, once I move all the lifting equipment somewhere else. Maybe get some cheapo foam mats to plaster on the concrete wall.

Right now one of the mats ends at my heater and all of the tubing for it, so I should probably find another arrangement before that goes horribly wrong. There’s some metal poles, a shelf with a bunch of crap that can be knocked over too. So yep, going to rotate this arrangement.

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1744

Wednesday 10/1/19

BJJ 60 min

Put out the bat signal for open training and two bulldogs in their 20’s showed up. One judoka who is a long-time lifting friend and one of the best natty lifters I know, another guy is a brown belt pro MMA fighter who has fought in Bellator.

No Gi. Just rolling.

I learned how bad I am at no gi. Especially against two very strong athletes in their 20’s. I did okay with the pro fighter, much better than the last two times I trained with him, but he still submitted me each time. I found myself on top quite a bit, but couldn’t advance to mount without getting stuffed and my only no gi attack from side control is an Americana. I played around in north south a bit, trying to get a walk-around armbar, but he was just too mobile and hard to hold down.

I’ve tapped out the other guy most times we’ve trained, but that was all in the gi. No gi he was a squirrelly and slippery box of problems I didn’t have an answer for tonight.

It was great fun, and the fighter has some goodies he wants to lend to the space like wall mats. We’re all in the same neighborhood, so I hope to have a lot more training with these guys in the future.

Note to self, lose more weight, move better and suck less at no gi.

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1745

Thursday 10/3/19

BJJ 120 min

I’m loving home mats. I really love to train but my options for formal schooling are so limited right now. It is an honor and privilege to have people come to me to train, regardless of their skill level. I also like committing to training with people who want to do it whenever I’m free at home. It makes me want to work, and work harder. That’s the medicine I need right now. The response has been great after I put the bat signal out.

To be clear, nobody’s coming to me because of my skill on the mats, aside from me being a somewhat competent grappler and a game-for-whatever goon. All I’m doing is providing the space, being game to roll and being the bouncer. Everyone’s been super-cool so far (in all of three home training events), but I do not care what kind of belt you have around your waist when it is literally my house. No disrespectful behavior will be tolerated on my mats. I don’t really anticipate any of it, but I’m ready to squash it if I have to.

My first guest tonight was a seasoned blue belt at the same school my instructor trains at. This man more than anyone is who talked me into committing to jiu jitsu, but this is only the third time we’ve trained together and the first time we’ve really rolled and felt each other out. He got the better of me for sure, but I still had plenty of spaces I could maneuver in and advance. This guy is a fantastic match up for me. Big, strong, younger, way more athletic and more skilled, but not so much that I can’t find openings to work in, ways to escape, good positions to hold and maybe even submissions to present itself. A level or two above me overall, which is a space I really like to work in.

He also cleared the talisman of pointlessness out of my basement. I’ve been a treadmill owner for quite some time, but I’ve never felt the urge to become a treadmill user. It’s actually a nice piece of equipment, and he and his wife are both former college athletes in their late 20’s who will actually use it. I’m also indefinitely loaning him my squat rack/bench setup, barbell and plates. I rarely use it and they’re both working parents busting ass to raise good kids, so a solid home setup is something that will help them a lot more than it does me.

I’ve still got my 10-50 lb adjustable dumbbells, a 50lb kettlebell, an 88lb kettlebell, a very nice adjustable bench AND all the whole set of spinlock weights. I can load a dumbbell up to around 80lbs with those and I think I can load the barbell to around 200 in total spinlock weight. I probably won’t ever do that, but I could. I’ll just go to the gym if I get the urge to lift barbells.

I had a 15 minute break before my next jits guests arrived.

My instructor and the same new white belt from Sunday showed up. We worked basic Kesa headlock escapes. The kesa headlock involves gaining the position and then wrapping their head with the far-side hand and controlling their arm with your near-side hand. Kesa scarf-hold is another term for this.

First escape involves wrapping their body, then a BIG bridge to put their head on the mat. From there you kind of just keep rolling them over in the same direction they have momentum in. I need to understand this better than I do right now, but it felt pretty intuitive once I got them moving with the bridge.

Next escape involves framing their face out with your inside hand while you work to ratchet your arm out of the scarf-hold. Make them look at the ceiling with jaw pressure from your free hand while you pendulum swing your legs to generate momentum to yank your arm right out of that scarf hold.

A back take is next, but I’m done writing for tonight. We rolled a bunch after that and then practiced arm-drags and street chokes, with a neat little way to finish a rear naked choke with just one arm around the neck.

Great training. I’m smoked. DONE.

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1746

In my late 40s, a 20 yr age gap between me and one of my strongest workout buddies was mutually rewarding. My consistent beat up feeling for about 3 hrs post workouts lasted about a year but we each got really strong.

The 20 somethings will do the same with you. Keep up the good work.

1747

Thanks @biker! I’m definitely feeling the work and have a nice patina of bruises to show for it. The younger bulldogs make me work, but it’s nice to know that I can hang and give them problems.

1748

Exactly.

1749

I love the word “patina”. Nice usage here, kudos.

…totally random comment lol…

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1750

Do any of the gi moves help you in real life, e.g. bouncing?

I remember in one of the first UFCs, when Royce Gracie was getting his ass kicked but then choked the guy out using a gi move, and I was thinking “the Gracies talk about being effective in the street, but that would’ve never worked w/o the gi”. (I think it might’ve been Ken Shamrock, not sure, but it was definitely one of the 'roided up goons.)

1751

Yes, especially if it’s not summer.

A gi is very rugged and unusually shaped, so it is unlike most clothing people wear. BUT… It has to be, if you’re ever to train for long periods in it AND look cool in your jiu jitsu uniform. There’s a lot of wacky stuff you can do with a gi in jiu jitsu, but I steer clear of elaborate chokes that would only work in real life if someone was wearing a trenchcoat or some other unlikely piece of clothing.

That said, I think training in the gi is very valuable for real life struggles and fights. From my experience, this boils down to grips and friction. Clothing is something you can grab, and everyone I’ve had to grab has been wearing clothes. A hoodie may give a little more than a gi does, but you can still grab a motherfucker by it. Even a t-shirt can get you a grip on someone. It may rip if you decide to die on your hill of hanging on to that t-shirt grip, but it can also disrupt someone long enough to move to a better spot somehow.

The friction of clothing also “slows down” a struggle, compared to training no gi or fighting in your underwear in an octagon. Especially once you start sweating. It makes it WAY harder to get out of a pin or any kind of clinch. You’re not a greased monkey when you’re wearing jeans and a Carhart, and the collar on a Carheart is perfectly fine to choke people with, just like a gi.

Other than a collar choke, which is standard stuff in jiu jitsu, the only other gi chokes I use are the kung-fu and ezekiel choke. Ezekiel could work in real life if I was wearing my winter coat or
probably a hoodie too, but I wouldn’t try it in, say, a button-up work shirt. Kung-fu choke would work in heavy clothing too.

The gi also helps you be creative with your environment and even the belt on a gi is realistic. A belt grip is a great way to control someone’s hips, especially if you get behind them. A normal leather belt actually works much better than a BJJ belt, in this case. It’s a hip handle, right there for you to exploit.

Of course, training no gi and even techniques in the gi that don’t NEED the gi are also very important to having an answer for whatever happens to come your way.

If I had to pick gi or no gi for practical self-defense, I’m doing gi all day. Just because you’re wearing pajamas doesn’t mean you have to train techniques that depend on the pajamas.

If you’re the type of guy who finds himself getting into fights on the beach for some reason, I’d say no gi all the way.

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1752

To amend a bit, more gi-dependent chokes I’ve used are coming to mind, and I’m sure MANY more exist that I can’t recall or have never been shown.

I’ve also NEVER thought about going for a clothing-dependent choke in a struggle, because my jiu jitsu has given me other, better options. If I’m on my feet, I get behind them, if I’m behind them, I clinch to control or rear naked choke to put pressure on them (still haven’t needed to finish one of those).

If we’re going to the ground, I’m hunting mount however we end up. Once I get to mount, you had better know some shit and/or have pro power athlete attributes, or you’re probably fucked. If you’re still fighting me off, I’m holding mount and working taking the back, then working the RNC to end it. Standard jiu jitsu pathway in a one-on-one encounter.

You can train all of this stuff in the gi without being dependent on the gi to finish a fight, especially when strikes are in play.

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1753

Well shit, I need to amend once more. My brain’s not doing the remembering part of brainwork like it used to.

I did, in fact, wrap a guy’s hoodie around his neck once. I had him pinned to the wall, silly lad that he was. I didn’t choke him, but I let him know that I could.

That fight ended when his buddies swarmed us to stop their friend from making increasingly worse decisions.

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1754

Saturday 10/5/19

BJJ 120 min

The bat signal is proving effective. I’ve trained for the fourth time this week, and I’m not sure I’ve ever trained BJJ 4 times in one week before. Home mats are THE SHIT. I’m still in shitty shape, but after a week of hard rolling every other day I’m improving quickly. More. I need more.

Great room today. No Gi. Three killers showed up. Everyone some combination of big, strong, young and skilled.

No technique review today. Just a lot of banging with a bunch of greased monkeys.

SMOKED. More. I NEED MORE.

1755

Sunday 10/6/19

BJJ 70 min

My instructor and another white belt showed up tonight. Mount escape concepts and techniques were the subject, and we covered some details I’ve either forgotten or never learned.

We started with the basic concept of the importance of keeping your elbows on the mat. These are your frames and if they are beaten, so are you. You prevent someone from striking your face with your hips. If they wind up for a strike or reach for a choke, buck them hard enough to make them have to base out with their hands to hold the position. You can use a knee bump to assist in this as well. You DON’T use your hands to stop people from fucking you up in the mount. You use your hips and your frames…

First we looked at getting frames back from the bottom of high mount. Grip your hands together and put them on your forehead. Shimmy your elbows back to the mat, moving them back down into middle mount.

From there we looked at a movement sequence to escape mid-mount. Buck, buck, Big Bridge, then run in a circle. Either direction can present opportunities for both yourself and your opponent. A heel hook is sometimes right there. I’m sure a lot of stuff is, so I’ll need to explore. That sequence is just a baseline, you can use different patterns and see what opens up from there. It merits more exploration.

The other concept we explored was the idea of moving your body to their arm to achieve a trap and roll while preserving your frames, i.e. keeping your elbows on the mat. By keeping your hips active, you can buck and bridge them in different directions and orient your body so you can trap an arm without taking your elbow off of the mat. Then hit a BIG BRIDGE.

We just did playful flow rolling tonight, sort of like active recovery. My body is keenly aware that I was rolling hard no-gi with a 27 year old judoka powerhouse yesterday.

I’ve trained five times in the last 8 days. This is awesome. I hope it keeps up.

1756

Tuesday 10/15/19

BJJ 45 min

My instructor and one other white belt showed up to the basement tonight. Today was just technique and drilling. Grip sequence to start. Grab them by the collar.

If you get it, great, go to work. If not…

Reach low with your other hand to get a grip on whatever they’ve got, ideally a lapel or something to open their collar. Pull back on it at the same time you shoot your other hand forward to grab a new grip. Rinse and repeat, start stripping grips, then work a back and forth. The shape you want them to make is to have their near-side arm stuffed across their body while you control their far-side torso. This opens the back up. Orient your hips the same way theirs are and post your head on their far side rear shoulder blade. You have the back, go to work.

On the grip strip we start to look for an arm drag. Same idea, take the back, fix your hips, go to work, although here we’d like to keep the arm extended if we can while doing the rest. If not clinch up, start grip fighting, etc. Note to self, I need more grip fighting knowledge and practice.

From here we looked at a simple takedown. I’ve forgotten the judo name, but it’s a backwards trip. Once you’ve gotten the back to an acceptable degree, start hooking your near side foot around theirs. Near leg is fine to keep them spinning, but the key is to stay balanced on one foot while you work your other leg to the back of their foot. You don’t put any weight on it, you just make sure it is in the way of theirs, then fall backwards.

You can also scoop their far side knee as long as you use your body to keep their arm from crossing your centerline. Or you can keep owning the arm until you hit the ground, then look to scoop the knee right away as you go into side control.

Or you may stay on their back the whole time if you move well. It is a very safe way to put someone down AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE BACK. If you don’t own the back, this takedown isn’t there. Fishing for it can get people hurt if you’re not in position.

That’s it. Lots of drilling the above sequences. No rolling tonight, just a quick lesson.

1757

Thursday 10/17/19

BJJ 60 min.

My space bar is stuck so this is a short entry. Ehfuckthisshitwerolledabunchanddidwalkaroundarmbardetails.

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1758

Reminds me of quityourbellyaching sign I once saw.

1759

Sunday 10/27/19

BJJ 70 min

Technique for the day was a no-gi takedown sequence, defending a front body lock. First option is to frame their face away as you walk your hips away to break the grip, then get away or re-engage. If that isn’t working keep framing their face/neck with your far side arm as you overhook their arm that is around your back. Step your near side foot forward bigly and drive your shoulder into them to force them to post on the floor with their far side hand (or just hit the ground). As they stand back up after posting their hand, cycle your other hand around to get the underhook on that arm, switching your head to that side as well. Continue to work from there.

The other option that opens up when you overhook the arm and drive your shoulder is a trip. If you see the arm, attack the arm as described above. if you see a foot, attack the foot. Get behind the ankle with your near side foot, use your far side arm to trap the front of their ankle and drive them forward.

Foot or arm, foot or arm.

We also worked on a fun little variation of that throw with a wrist lock that’s built off of a back control escort position and/or an arm drag defense. From the escort position (bouncer fun spot) you are behind them with control of their right wrist with your right hand and your left hand on their hip. Classic walking a guy out position.

From there (or after being arm-dragged) someone may try to pull their arm back to face back up. When they do, make sure your chest is still on their back and block their elbow with your near-side arm and immediately cycle your hand around to control their wrist. Your far side hand can now cycle around to apply a wrist lock. Use driving shoulder pressure to keep them from turning into you.

The same throw is now much more effective. Just send em flying forward after you’ve snapped their wrist (or not). Play the same game for the other underhook if they post or work with whatever you’re given.

All of this and all of what we worked on the last two sessions can be tied together with one sentence. The weapon is the path to the back.

We rolled a bunch after that. Just flow rolling but I put together a few good guard passes and one sweep from side control that put a big smile on my instructor’s face. It was a hail-Mary but it worked.

Of course I couldn’t settle into side control afterwards because he was POOF gone on me, but I still made the sweep.

I signed up for my first competition in December, a submission-only gi tournament. My main priorities are conditioning and building a better chain of takedowns. 3 attempts in the first 5 seconds is what my instructor wants me to do. If I end up on top, I should be in good shape.

I need to dig up my 88 lb kettlebell. It’s still kicking it at the powerlifting gym. I swung my 50 around this morning but it just doesn’t make me suck wind like the 88 does.

I’m excited to do this competition.

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1760

Good Luck!

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