DL - Release or Touch and Go on Reps?

Training Powerlifting
41

Was reading through some old Questions of Strength on my lunch break…

Question of Strength: Volume 22 By Charles Poliquin

"Q: When performing power cleans and deadlifts, some people pause at the bottom and take a few breaths between reps, while others hardly let the weight touch the ground â?? in fact, they may bounce the load off the floor to help them lift it again. Are the latter just using poor form, or is this another variation of the movements?

A: I prefer the first technique in which the bar momentarily pauses on the floor before the next concentric portion because it overloads the posterior chain far better. The ones who use the bouncing approach usually do so because they have a weak lower back.

Pausing also provides a better quality strength and power stimulus as it forces you to overcome inertia on every rep, even though the load on the bar may be lower than what you use with the bouncing approach. And lastly, pausing between reps is also a much safer approach for the spinal column.

Stick to the full range, pausing between reps. You’ll be rewarded with greater strength gains and a healthy spine."

42

How about, it depends on the individual.

43

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
How about, it depends on the individual.[/quote]

No way, that answer makes way too much sense… :slight_smile:

44

[quote]Louchuck wrote:
Was reading through some old Questions of Strength on my lunch break…

Question of Strength: Volume 22 By Charles Poliquin

"Q: When performing power cleans and deadlifts, some people pause at the bottom and take a few breaths between reps, while others hardly let the weight touch the ground â?? in fact, they may bounce the load off the floor to help them lift it again. Are the latter just using poor form, or is this another variation of the movements?

A: I prefer the first technique in which the bar momentarily pauses on the floor before the next concentric portion because it overloads the posterior chain far better. The ones who use the bouncing approach usually do so because they have a weak lower back.

Pausing also provides a better quality strength and power stimulus as it forces you to overcome inertia on every rep, even though the load on the bar may be lower than what you use with the bouncing approach. And lastly, pausing between reps is also a much safer approach for the spinal column.

Stick to the full range, pausing between reps. You’ll be rewarded with greater strength gains and a healthy spine."[/quote]

I really hope this post can shut all of you trampoline obsessed posters in this thread up. “strengthens your posterior chain better, makes you stronger due to the fact that you have to overcome inertia”, how would you be able to argue with that?

I don’t care if you squat 1000 pounds. You have no privilege to impose your opinions among people unless you know as much as I do and the contributors of T-Nation.

(lol, just kidding about the me being smart part. I’m not really that conceited.)

45

Actually I think you are, as personal opinion. No matter, though.

How can anyone argue with that, you wonder? Because those that have been training in powerlifting for years, or taking the DL seriously even if not in powerlifting, and have found what works better for them and what does not, have a better basis of saying what best works for them than any famous name trainer does, particularly when said famous name trainer does not train powerlifters.

Shocking to you, perhaps, that that could be so – why, you don’t even think there’s any room for debate once a quote from a famous name trainer is put out there, surely that has to end it, to your mind anyway – but it’s true nonetheless.

Goodbye. I’ve found your posts consistently not worth reading.

46

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually I think you are, as personal opinion. No matter, though.

How can anyone argue with that, you wonder? Because those that have been training in powerlifting for years, or taking the DL seriously even if not in powerlifting, and have found what works better for them and what does not, have a better basis of saying what best works for them than any famous name trainer does, particularly when said famous name trainer does not train powerlifters.

Shocking to you, perhaps, that that could be so – why, you don’t even think there’s any room for debate once a quote from a famous name trainer is put out there, surely that has to end it, to your mind anyway – but it’s true nonetheless.

Goodbye. I’ve found your posts consistently not worth reading.

[/quote]

Don’t you powerlifters get it? I’ve been trying to hide my arrogance for so long, I can’t help it anymore. I need to put all of you in your place. YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE DOES NOT MEAN SHIT TO MY MONTHS (more than a year) WORTH OF READING FROM RELIABLE SOURCES!! I’ve been to alot of places all over the web and the things that I’ve learned are far beyond what most of the experienced powerlifters in here knows from simply chaining themselves to the squat rack. YOU CAN’T BASE EVERYTHING FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE!!! Everyone is different, and for you to say that you have the privilege to give out advice to newbies just because you’ve “been there” is just pure arrogance. Heck, I can do two things right now:

  1. Lift weights even though I have no clue what I’m doing and learn from my mistakes.

OR, a much better option

  1. Learn as much as I can from books, experts, and the internet and lift weights once I am confident with my knowledge. With my knowledge, I will know what to do… And I will learn even more things from my experience…

Alot of you people are a fucking joke. Where the heck is Louie Simmons? I want him to answer all my questions. He is one of the few people who has the privilege to tell me what to do.

47

I like option 1 first then options 2 second. How many of us really read first do later? You can’t teach your body how to do things from books and the internet etc. So what your saying is that I’ll read how to do deadlifts from a book and do it once I am good that I read it correct. Ya that makes A LOT of sense. You learn by doing the specific skill/ exercise not from reading books and the internet. They can give you a insight to extra things but you must learn on your own. Do you really think a 15 yr old newb will read for 3-4 years before lifting a weight? NO. It takes ROUGHLY 1,000-1,500 reps of something to have it down. So I’ll read my book on squatting 1,000-1,500 times and I’ll be squatting in no time. Ya okay bud see ya there.

So STFU and stop posting retarded things.

48

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Don’t you powerlifters get it? I’ve been trying to hide my arrogance for so long, I can’t help it anymore. I need to put all of you in your place. YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE DOES NOT MEAN SHIT TO MY MONTHS (more than a year) WORTH OF READING FROM RELIABLE SOURCES!! I’ve been to alot of places all over the web and the things that I’ve learned are far beyond what most of the experienced powerlifters in here knows from simply chaining themselves to the squat rack. YOU CAN’T BASE EVERYTHING FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE!!! Everyone is different, and for you to say that you have the privilege to give out advice to newbies just because you’ve “been there” is just pure arrogance. Heck, I can do two things right now:

  1. Lift weights even though I have no clue what I’m doing and learn from my mistakes.

OR, a much better option

  1. Learn as much as I can from books, experts, and the internet and lift weights once I am confident with my knowledge. With my knowledge, I will know what to do… And I will learn even more things from my experience…

Alot of you people are a fucking joke. Where the heck is Louie Simmons? I want him to answer all my questions. He is one of the few people who has the privilege to tell me what to do.[/quote]

You’re such an arrogant little prick.

You are the definition of a troll. When it first started, there was some humor to some of your posts.

Now you simply post to start controversy. Please leave.

49

I hate how even though I have him blocked, Type2B still manages to ruin good threads. I don’t even know what he’s saying and I already know it’s some retarded ass backwards logic that he thinks he got from teh interwebz and reading Supertraining.

All I have to say, is that if EVERYONE is telling you you’re retarded, maybe it’s time to step back and consider their arguments.

50

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
adamkeep wrote:
dbutkus wrote:
What are the pros and cons of performing DL reps touch and go (no bounce, just a gentle touch on the floor) vs. fully returning the weights to the floor and releasing your tension before pulling the subsequent rep? I have typically done the touch and go, primarily because I normally DL at 24HF with their stupid octagonal plates. They make the bar settle ackwardly between reps. Today I did my reps with released tension between reps anyway and it was clearly harder.

I’m told those octagonal plates are actually made to keep people from deadlifting in health clubs and making noise. Haha!

I use the stop and reset method because I feel it has a better carry over (for me anyhow) to the 1 rep deadlift in a competition. The touch and go is good training for hypertrophy of course because you can keep the tension on the muscle. I find though that people injure themselves much more often when going touch and go. I have pulled 740lbs at 228lbs bodyweight with just a belt and straps and going stop and reset has gotten me there for sure. I also compete in strongman, am a pro in the 105kg class, and it matters how the dead will be in the competition to how I train it, bounce or stop. Hope it helps.

Adam

Yeap, that’s exactly why the gyms use those octagonal plates. I’ve tried to release a few times, and I end up having to “chase” the bar and it gets in fucked up position, making me loose my form and my mojo! I really need to find a new gym, but all the ones around me have those stupid plates!!

[/quote]

I’ve been told that if you fold up a few towels on the ground, and rest the plates on that, it solves the octagonal plates problem. Fortunately I dont lift in a gym with 8-sided plates anymore, but my buddy told me he was doing this. It gives the plate something to sink into, instead of coming down on a point and immediately rolling. never tried it myself, so i dont know how many towels you’d need to provide enough of a cushion for the plate to sink into

51

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually I think you are, as personal opinion. No matter, though.

How can anyone argue with that, you wonder? Because those that have been training in powerlifting for years, or taking the DL seriously even if not in powerlifting, and have found what works better for them and what does not, have a better basis of saying what best works for them than any famous name trainer does, particularly when said famous name trainer does not train powerlifters.

Shocking to you, perhaps, that that could be so – why, you don’t even think there’s any room for debate once a quote from a famous name trainer is put out there, surely that has to end it, to your mind anyway – but it’s true nonetheless.

Goodbye. I’ve found your posts consistently not worth reading.

Don’t you powerlifters get it? I’ve been trying to hide my arrogance for so long, I can’t help it anymore. I need to put all of you in your place. YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE DOES NOT MEAN SHIT TO MY MONTHS (more than a year) WORTH OF READING FROM RELIABLE SOURCES!! I’ve been to alot of places all over the web and the things that I’ve learned are far beyond what most of the experienced powerlifters in here knows from simply chaining themselves to the squat rack. YOU CAN’T BASE EVERYTHING FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE!!! Everyone is different, and for you to say that you have the privilege to give out advice to newbies just because you’ve “been there” is just pure arrogance. Heck, I can do two things right now:

  1. Lift weights even though I have no clue what I’m doing and learn from my mistakes.

OR, a much better option

  1. Learn as much as I can from books, experts, and the internet and lift weights once I am confident with my knowledge. With my knowledge, I will know what to do… And I will learn even more things from my experience…

Alot of you people are a fucking joke. Where the heck is Louie Simmons? I want him to answer all my questions. He is one of the few people who has the privilege to tell me what to do.[/quote]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha… deep breath bwahahahahahahahahaha!

52

[quote]Louchuck wrote:
Was reading through some old Questions of Strength on my lunch break…

Question of Strength: Volume 22 By Charles Poliquin

"Q: When performing power cleans and deadlifts, some people pause at the bottom and take a few breaths between reps, while others hardly let the weight touch the ground â?? in fact, they may bounce the load off the floor to help them lift it again. Are the latter just using poor form, or is this another variation of the movements?

A: I prefer the first technique in which the bar momentarily pauses on the floor before the next concentric portion because it overloads the posterior chain far better. The ones who use the bouncing approach usually do so because they have a weak lower back.

Pausing also provides a better quality strength and power stimulus as it forces you to overcome inertia on every rep, even though the load on the bar may be lower than what you use with the bouncing approach. And lastly, pausing between reps is also a much safer approach for the spinal column.

Stick to the full range, pausing between reps. You’ll be rewarded with greater strength gains and a healthy spine."[/quote]

so i suppose he pauses everything then? squats, benches, overhead presses, etc? [/sarcasm]

53

[quote]Modi wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:
Don’t you powerlifters get it? I’ve been trying to hide my arrogance for so long, I can’t help it anymore. I need to put all of you in your place. YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE DOES NOT MEAN SHIT TO MY MONTHS (more than a year) WORTH OF READING FROM RELIABLE SOURCES!! I’ve been to alot of places all over the web and the things that I’ve learned are far beyond what most of the experienced powerlifters in here knows from simply chaining themselves to the squat rack. YOU CAN’T BASE EVERYTHING FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE!!! Everyone is different, and for you to say that you have the privilege to give out advice to newbies just because you’ve “been there” is just pure arrogance. Heck, I can do two things right now:

  1. Lift weights even though I have no clue what I’m doing and learn from my mistakes.

OR, a much better option

  1. Learn as much as I can from books, experts, and the internet and lift weights once I am confident with my knowledge. With my knowledge, I will know what to do… And I will learn even more things from my experience…

Alot of you people are a fucking joke. Where the heck is Louie Simmons? I want him to answer all my questions. He is one of the few people who has the privilege to tell me what to do.

You’re such an arrogant little prick.

You are the definition of a troll. When it first started, there was some humor to some of your posts.

Now you simply post to start controversy. Please leave.
[/quote]

I echo this. Type2B is a very strange character.

On the subject of deadlifting, I’ll talk only from a powerlifting point of view, not a bodybuilding one, as I am a powerlifter.

I personally pull for reps on partial ROM deadlift exercises (rack pulls, pulls from blocks, RDL’s, Dimel Deadlifts etc).

I only ever pull singles from the floor. If I was to pull doubles (or more reps) I would pause each and every rep.

The reason is that I find it too hard to land the bar in the exact same spot every time if I touch and go (which I used to do 2 or 3 years ago). Pavel also talks about this difficulty with the eccentric on the deadlift in Power to the People.

Further, I “drop with the bar” on every rep. I do not do slow eccentrics. So, in essence I train the Deadlift, as I compete.

As a final note, if a powerlifter was dead (excuse the pun) set on pulling from the floor for reps I would suggest pausing if the start was weak. If lockout was weak, I could perhaps see value in touch and go. (Personally, I find pulls against bands and/or chains build the lockout very well).

54

[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
I hate how even though I have him blocked, Type2B still manages to ruin good threads. I don’t even know what he’s saying and I already know it’s some retarded ass backwards logic that he thinks he got from teh interwebz and reading Supertraining.

All I have to say, is that if EVERYONE is telling you you’re retarded, maybe it’s time to step back and consider their arguments. [/quote]

Please don’t mind if I correct you. (Be prepared cause I’m gonna post with upper caps…)

THE REASON WHY YOU POWERLIFTERS THINK I’M AN IDIOT AIN’T BECAUSE I’M AN IDIOT. IT’S BECAUSE YOU GUYS, IN YOUR OWN LITTLE WORLD THINK THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE PRIVILEGED TO GIVE OUT ADVICE ARE VETERAN POWERLIFTERS! YOU FEEL OBLIGATED TO CONTRADICT ME BECAUSE YOU ARE, (just like everyone else) A HUMAN BEING WHO THIRSTS/HUNGERS FOR A SENSE OF IMPORTANCE. YOU GET THIS SENSE OF IMPORTANCE BY INSULTING THE LIKES OF ME, WHO, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WILL BE THE ONE WHO WILL BRING GREAT THINGS IN ALL STRENGTH SPORTS!!!

(…just for the sake of me not looking arrogant, please pretend that the last sentece in that all caps paragraph doesn’t exist.)

55

First off, Bill Roberts IS a contributor to T-Nation. He not only write articles, he’s developed entire products for Biotest.

Secondly, who do you think is writing these articles? EXPERIENCED lifters. Not people that read a bunch of articles.

Thirdly, I’ve trained at westside and talked training with Louie. One of the things he got really animated about was people that think that they know westside because they read westside articles, specifically “pencil neck internet warriors”. Others on this website have met him and I’m sure they will back this up.

Fourth, we’ve all been around a lot longer than you. We’ve seen what works. You think that you’re the first bitch ass that thought that reading an article made him better than us? Fuck no. And yet every one of those guys so far has failed miserably, while the rest of us put up bigger and bigger numbers. Believe it or not, we HAVE read the same things you have, but we have ALSO been under the bar. I own Supertraining and Science and Practice, I’ve read EVERY article on the westside website twice, I spent hours pouring over the training records of the eastern bloc, and I STILL say that nothing trumps time well spent under the bar ACHIEVING RESULTS.

Fifth, ask ANY author of any article what is more important, experience or book knowledge, and I will bet your life that they say that while it’s important to not train like an idiot, the experience makes you a better coach. Go ask Thib in his thread (he’ll probably ignore you because you’re retarded) or send an email to Joe DeFranco (he’ll publicly humilate you for insinuating books actually matter) or call up Louie Simmons and ask him what he thinks (he’ll laugh his ass off at the “pencil-neck internet warrior”).

Finally, leave. Just leave. I personally don’t care that you are going to be weak the rest of your life, it means nothing to me. How about you leave this website and you can continue being “RIGHT” and we will continue being “strong”? Not a single person wants you here or wants your input on anything. Not a single one. Go. Away.

56

[quote]Joe DeFranco wrote:
Within one month of receiving my Bachelorâ??s Degree in Exercise Science, I passed two highly respected certifications. Looking back, I am very proud at what I accomplished. I traveled to Connecticut and took the National Academy of Sports Medicineâ??s intense 5-day course. At the end of the 5 days, I passed their Advanced Level Certification. The certification contained a lot of anatomy and advanced biomechanics. I think only 1/3 of the people taking the test actually passed. Needless to say, I was extremely proud of this certification. I remember going home and passing out that night because I was exhausted from that course. Then, the very next morning, I hopped in my car and drove to Boston by myself to take the CSCS test (Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist). I had been studying for this test my entire senior year of college because this was considered to be the â??gold standardâ?? in the strength & conditioning industry. I was exhausted when I got to Boston. I remember staying up in my hotel room for 2 nights straight finishing up all my readings and preparing for the test. (I think this is actually when my caffeine addiction started.) To make a long story short, I passed both sections of the CSCS and earned my 2nd certification!
For 5 years straight, I wouldnâ??t write my name on anything without adding my credentials â?? Joe DeFranco, BSc, CSCS, NASM-CPT. I worked my ass off to earn those letters and I was very proud.

Now itâ??s been about 10 years since I took those certification courses and I sign my name like thisâ?¦ Joe DeFranco. You see, I have now found out that nothing beats EXPERIENCE. Iâ??m not taking anything away from those courses; itâ??s just that I have learned so much more by actually being in the trenches and training athletes for the past 10 years! I have also been fortunate enough to develop the best network of colleagues in the world. Ever since I became a part of TEAM ELITE FTS, the best coaches in the world are only a phone call or email away. If I have a question about training, I donâ??t have to read a book, take a course, or pay for certification CEUâ??s anymore; I go right to the best in the world. No certification can compare to the HUNDREDS of years of experience that I have access to by being in contact with guys like Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, Buddy Morris, Jason Ferruggia, Alwyn Cosgrove, James Smith, Michael Hope, Zach Even-Esh, just to name a few!

Hopefully this gives you some insight on how I started and where I am now.

I have exchanged my certification â??lettersâ?? for real world EXPERIENCE & RESULTS.

Joe D. [/quote]

From one of the most successful coaches out there.

57

[quote]Harry Selkow wrote:

Just a personal rant. I am truly tired of reading things from people who are experts in the field that are totally full of shit. How the fuck can you possibly teach someone how to get into athletic strong condition, if you personally have never been there yourself? What is it with these pencil neck, needle dick, pin arm, no backbone pieces of shit offering advice on how to be the next LT and I mean the LINEBACKER,while they haven’t put the pads on, moved one lateral fucking step and jacked the snot bubble out of someone? You can’t tell me that weighing in at 150 pounds, you know how to accelerate your body at impact, and how snapping your hips while placing your cross hairs on the numbers of some unsuspecting receiver actually makes a normal everyfucking day tackle into a bona fide HIT!!! Gain some weight, put the effort in the strength training and I mean Squat/Bench/Deadlift/Power Clean/Pull-up not machine curls and smithy inclines. Get your practice cleats on and bound over dummies, sweat your ass off, and take down and smash things. Have the balls to say…“I don’t know a single thing about that, but I know someone who does, or I will find out for you” [/quote]

On EFS.

58

I love you threewhitelights

59

[quote]Dave Tate wrote:
Fuck Science! Show me what you learned under the bar.[/quote]

From Jason Ferruggia’s website.

60

3WL FTW!