Distal Clavicle Osteolysis

Bigger Stronger Leaner Injuries and Rehab
21

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
GH (or even better; GHRP, since it is entirely ‘natural’ a a HELL of a lot cheaper) is almost the antithesis of cortisone.

Cortisone is designed to eat away tissues, therby reducing inflammation. But the side-effect is a general reduction in the strength/density of surrounding tissues.

Cortisone only really works (and even then, it can be very hit and miss) IF INFLAMMATION is the direct cause of your condition. If the 'lysis is a result of something else, then you are just adding a lytic drug to an already lytic tissue. Not a great idea.

GH on the other hand will increase bone mineral density and ligament strength. However, much like cortisone, it will NOT tackle the root cause of the condition, which is largely unknown.

I have a personal theory about the 'lysis, which is untested so I’ll keep quiet.

Either way, GH can be no ‘worse’ than cortisone since neither will ‘cure’ the problem, but whilst cortisone will ‘eat away’ tissue, GH will build it back up.

By all means ask your GP about GH, but if he/she says much more than 'Err, don’t do it", I’ll be surprised. And if they’ve even heard of GHRPs, I’ll be amazed :wink:

BBB[/quote]

BBB, thanks again for the explanation. I got it now. Clear as day. I was finally able to find some info Abt it online. And it looks pretty useful in improving joint health. I’m goon in to see the specialist ortho in a couple of hours and will see what he says. But I got a feelin he’s Gona react as if I’m speaking Chinese. All in all I’m not sure if I can get my hands on Ghrp 6 but I can def get GH. Will dosing with GH be the same. I’m pretty sure it won’t be sides free some the peptide increases the natural production vs. GH being the actual hormone. From what I read and understood, the dosing is 100 iu daily for joint health and more for hyper trophy. Can I using the same dosing with the GH? Also, is it injected anywhere or just on the site (ac joint).

What’s ur take on surgery? Would u think it’s better to have the surgery and dose with GH or just the GH alone and see if it helps?

I know us rather not say but I really am curious to hear Abt the root cause that causes lysis.

If u were In my shoes would u screw it and lift or opt for something to fix it?

It’s been 4 months and daily activities like driving, takin off my shirt, or just moving my arm in a certain way still gives me pain and the grinding feel.

Again , thanks again. Much appreciated.

22

Just got back from seeing the Doc.

what a way to frustrate me even more. THis doc said that he doesnt agree with the osteolysis diagnosis. He believes that its “subacromail impingement syndrome” and thinks it would be resolved by a athroscopic subacromial decompression.

He agrees that i do have a wide ac joint, but that should not be causing any pain or issues and doesnt agree that the x ray is showing any demineralisation.

I left and went to see the first doc who diagnosed me with osteolysis and asked him what he thinks. He disagrees but agrees that a subacromial decompression and a distal clavicle resection serve the same purpose of widening the space in the shoulder complex. I asked him which would be a more conservative option and he says the decompression would be.

Now this doc that i saw is a professor with an MBA and specialises in shoulder complex and knee surgery but is only here till tuesday so i need to make a decision by 2moro morning.

Im leaning towards gettin the surgery…

any views?

23

Just got back from seeing the Doc.

what a way to frustrate me even more. THis doc said that he doesnt agree with the osteolysis diagnosis. He believes that its “subacromail impingement syndrome” and thinks it would be resolved by a athroscopic subacromial decompression.

He agrees that i do have a wide ac joint, but that should not be causing any pain or issues and doesnt agree that the x ray is showing any demineralisation.

I left and went to see the first doc who diagnosed me with osteolysis and asked him what he thinks. He disagrees but agrees that a subacromial decompression and a distal clavicle resection serve the same purpose of widening the space in the shoulder complex. I asked him which would be a more conservative option and he says the decompression would be.

Now this doc that i saw is a professor with an MBA and specialises in shoulder complex and knee surgery but is only here till tuesday so i need to make a decision by 2moro morning.

Im leaning towards gettin the surgery…

any views?

24

Whether you have osteolysis, or impingement, they will resolve it the same way. When they do arthroscopic surgery they check your entire shoulder and fix things as they go (sometimes things don’t come up on the MRI and they find it while “digging” around). I went in thinking I was only getting a resection, and ended up having to get subacromial decompression for my impingement as well.
Recovery was still the same, it’s not too big of a deal. In the end they are going to do pretty much the same thing. If they changed your diagnosis to a torn RC of labrum, then I would start to worry. What’s important is that you get a good doctor to perform the surgery. Preferably a well-reputable sports medicine orthopedic surgeon. My physical therapist always said that rehab was more important than the surgery itself, so make sure you get a PT that is good and you trust.
Hope this helps!

25

[quote]ugaMMA411 wrote:
Whether you have osteolysis, or impingement, they will resolve it the same way. When they do arthroscopic surgery they check your entire shoulder and fix things as they go (sometimes things don’t come up on the MRI and they find it while “digging” around). I went in thinking I was only getting a resection, and ended up having to get subacromial decompression for my impingement as well.
Recovery was still the same, it’s not too big of a deal. In the end they are going to do pretty much the same thing. If they changed your diagnosis to a torn RC of labrum, then I would start to worry. What’s important is that you get a good doctor to perform the surgery. Preferably a well-reputable sports medicine orthopedic surgeon. My physical therapist always said that rehab was more important than the surgery itself, so make sure you get a PT that is good and you trust.
Hope this helps![/quote]

Uga, that does help. thank you. somewhat puts my mind at ease. its good to know in either case the objective of either surgery is the same. im only hesitant coz my family seem to be against it saying it may be worse off than it was before the surgery but i just feel like i need to do something about it.

i tried to look testimonials about the doc, but cant seem to find any. but looked up his credentials. Hes a professor (MBA) and a director at an orthopedic clinic in germany and is around his 50s so he must a large number of surgeries under his belt. Also he specializes in shoulder surgery as well as knee surgery and orthoscopic surgery so thats somewhat comforting.

I think im gona do it.

thanks alot for constantly checkin in. will definitely focus on rehab.

27

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to upd8 u. Just got home from surgery. Finally decided to go under the knife. They eded up resecting 12mm of the clavicle and required a sub acromial decompression. Physio therapist is having me ice it 4 times /day and perform forward/backward arm swings and side swings 4 times / day for 2 weeks b4 starting physio.

Ugamma411; you mentine physio was very important, any tips? and how long will it be till i can go back. theyre telling me its 3 months for sports and 6 months for light lifting?

thanks for all your support guys!!

28

[quote]karim.arafa wrote:
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to upd8 u. Just got home from surgery. Finally decided to go under the knife. They eded up resecting 12mm of the clavicle and required a sub acromial decompression. Physio therapist is having me ice it 4 times /day and perform forward/backward arm swings and side swings 4 times / day for 2 weeks b4 starting physio.

Ugamma411; you mentine physio was very important, any tips? and how long will it be till i can go back. theyre telling me its 3 months for sports and 6 months for light lifting?

thanks for all your support guys!![/quote]

Hi guys,

Just yesterday I was diagnosed with DCO and given the injection referral and the option for possible surgery down the track. Can I ask those who have been through it how did the cortisone injections help? Also how long was the recovery from the operation where they remove part of the clavicle? I was told it is a quite simple operation where your back in the gym a few weeks after the surgery.

Thank you

29

Hi guys,

Just yesterday I was diagnosed with DCO and given the injection referral and the option for possible surgery down the track. Can I ask those who have been through it how did the cortisone injections help? Also how long was the recovery from the operation where they remove part of the clavicle? I was told it is a quite simple operation where your back in the gym a few weeks after the surgery.

Thank you

30

[quote]Matt0404 wrote:
Hi guys,

Just yesterday I was diagnosed with DCO and given the injection referral and the option for possible surgery down the track. Can I ask those who have been through it how did the cortisone injections help? Also how long was the recovery from the operation where they remove part of the clavicle? I was told it is a quite simple operation where your back in the gym a few weeks after the surgery.

Thank you[/quote]

Posted the below response in another thread in reference to Cortisone injections:

"Cortisone shots are only a temporary fix. In fact I found that the Cortisone injections were setting me back. Cortisone masks the pain well and yes you do feel like Superman after the injections. Because of this I found that I started training with the shoulder when it was still inflamed and I compounded my problem. I also found that the more Cortisone that I got the more quickly it would wear off. What used to give me two months of relief in the beginning only gave me a week towards the end.

Bottom line is that you need to find out what the underlying reason is that you are getting inflammation in the shoulder. Whether it is genetic where you were born with limited joint space, postural imbalances, lifting with improper form, or a combination of issues, you need to figure it out or you will continue down this path to chronic shoulder problems.

I would start off by cutting out any pressing movements that aggravate your shoulder. At least until you have been pain free for a good while. Concentrate on strengthening your scapular muscles and upper back. Lots of rows, face-pulls, pullups with a neutral grip, etc…This will help correct any postural issues and scapular instability that may be contributing to your impingement. I found that this helped me a lot. Also ice is your friend. Make sure that you are icing your shoulder two or three times a day.

Like I said, I followed the pattern you have started for almost four years. In the end I ended up electing to have my shoulder surgically fixed. I had a distal clavicle resection and a subacromial decompression. In lamens terms, they cut bone out of my shoulder in order to make more joint space. I was initially against any type of surgery, but when my day to day life was affected I relented. I got to the point that I was only sleeping two to three hours a night and it hurt to even pick up a coffee cup off of a table with my arm outstretched in front of me.

A year after the surgery (2010) I was back to where I was before I injured it and making gains. I will say that I am pressing pain free but I am cautious. If I feel any discomfort in either shoulder I immediately concentrate on my upper back and scapular muscles.

Good luck. Shoulder problems suck. "

31

Thank you for your reply, I have had the injection and my physio has prescribed me upper back and scapular exercises just as you were saying. My shoulder is feeling better and I will be working on all types of shoulder/back strengthening exercises before I start light pressing with restricted ROM.

As for the light pressing initially for chest related exercises (I was told no overhead pressing), It was suggested that I use a neutral grip to help take the strain off the AC, has any one has any luck with this? What other exercises were you able to do that did not irritate the joint?

Clinton131:

With your clavicle resection and decompression, how long was it until you were able to lift again? Was the addition of the decompression what caused your recovery time to increase?

32

bump

33

Matt0404,

I have been dealing with DCO for the past 9 months. I was able to work around the injury for the most part, although I couldn’t bench or overhead press, I was still able to get quality workouts in. I am not able to do any type of chest lifts due to pain, but a couple other options for chest lifts would be to try board presses or floor presses, this will limited ROM and decrease stress on shoulders.

My shoulder has been bothering me off and on for several years, injuries not related to DCO, so I opted for surgery last week. Dr. performed distal clavicle resection and cleaned up labrum on anterior and posterior aspect. I am curious to here from others how recovery went and if people are able to return to strenous strength training.

34

I can highly recommend going through with surgery. I’m 10 days in recovery after my operation and my ROM is restored to 90% without discomfort. The remaining 10% i can achieve with mild pain. I could do triceps extensions and Biceps curls for now(however i’m laying it off for another week, just to be safe). And i’m 100% positive that benching is possible within a week(and again to be safe i’m aiming for 2 weeks)