Always respect what you say. I’m talking and simply repeating what doctors, researchers and other specialists have told me.
One should raise Free t until symptom resolution. Go by labs and many men will never find help.
You have to understand that we’re not talking 50 free t. We’re talking 20-35.
Lab ranges keep dropping.if I’m not mistaken , These drops are based on data from sick men getting labs. Not fair comparison.
30 to 35 was probably the max free t range before they decided to lower it like morons.
There is a point of diminishing returns on free t. It is fairly easy to realize and from there you drop a little.
I thought the same about raising levels and long term health. I then spoke to the docs and other fella who showed me there is nothing to worry about. Why? Because labs and “how do I feel”. I can’t see someone raising free t so high that it is detrimental. I don’t have any evidence to say so either.
Older men also have issues more often than not with receptors and absorption effectiveness. These men sometimes need a higher free t to achieve health. Again lab ranges are shit.
Send me that study. I’d like to see the details on how it was run.
I saw a more recent study that dispelled these fears and it’s based on long term trt users. Not sick men or obese men on trt.
If someone has a stroke how would it be related to e2? I wonder how many had underlying or genetic issues. What was their protocol and health prior to trt,
We now know strokes are not common on trt and the age old give blood has been debunked. Plenty of info coming from Rouzier and others explaining in detail how this fear came to light.
Just like the prostate issue … now they give trt to men with prostate problems…
There is an NCBI paper as well, but it is not popping up for me right now. I’m reading some other stuff right now, much newer stuff relating to actual TRT use and T to E2 ratios. There areseveral things that I’ve read correlated higher incidence of stroke and athersclerosis with elevated E2, defining elevated E2 as above 42.5 or 40, depending, usually. I am not necessarily buying into it as a risk, but I’m not going to tell other guys that there is definitely no risk either. I am really starting to notice newer stuff is leaning towards ratio being the issue - at least the way I am reading the information. There isn’t much in the way of long term data though, especially regarding TRT patients and their levels. I also am open to the possibility that Free T range may be irrelevant, but I don’t have data that really convinces me and my gut says that everything has some sort of happy range, even if we are currently wrong about what it actually is.
These guys are not on trt. Raising free t along with e2 is what is healthy. Nobody in the medical field that’s against an ai suggests raising e in the abscence of free t and DHT.
A free t to e ratio is what reduces symptoms. This is why men don’t need ai. Most of the guys who use an ai keep their doses fairly low to match their e2. The sweet spot nonsense.
If one has estrogen high they have estrogen dominance. Sure estrogen might be linked, but it’s totally irrelevant when on trt. Unhealthy men with high estrogen have many other issues not just estrogen.
Even on trt obese men can raise free t but have e dominance and have the same issues and thus need ai. If they raised free t even higher they might realize that they’ve finally defeated the dominance.
This study does not pertain to estrogen rising while on Trt.
I’m not totally sold on that. Certainly people are a little too panicky about E2 numbers, and there is way too much AI use and way too much AI being prescribed. The truthis though, many of these got fat because there is a problem that tanked their natural T, and they can’t shake the weight where they are at. So it is reasonable that they may have a rough transition and a legitimate need for AI short term while they lose the weight. I would also be totally unsurprised if we find out ten years from now that there is a link between high E2 and hypertension or athersclerosis, but by high I mean a number a lot higher than 42.5. Or it could end up being down to all ratio. We don’t hve enough long term data from enough people to really know.
There is so much data supporting estradiols beneficial effects on the CVS…you have not a clue what you are talking about. In addition in the studies where obese and type 2 diabetic men are given testosterone resulting in a reversal of their diabetes and weight loss…no control of estrogen in those studies. No use of a AI. Pretty amazing
What exactly has this got to do with anything that I said? Do you have some sort of point, or are you going to provide actual information? Say something useful or go back in your hole pinhead.
He did say something useful man. You guys are all arguing about nonsense. He’s responding to the dickhead above who can’t seem to take on new info.
Ai are harmful to the body in ways that the doctors who prescribe ai will never realize becusse they do not run the right tests. Give it ten years and deal with joint issues, bone loss and other cv issues that will definitely arise. Hell maybe even get off Trt becusse of those issues.
They’ve been studying e2 for many years and have never found anything but benefits. We don’t need another ten years is what yeti is saying. You can stop looking and realize that the data is already there. Estradiol has been studied in woman and men for many years and many correlated benefifs
Yeti can’t even post a single blood test. I challenge both of you to post the DEXA scans, let’s see em, and lets see the estradiol values over the course of that 6 years.
Do you even read anything we have told you. Have you read any of the studies on the benefits of estrogen. ??? Why would I share anything with you if you can’t even baron the fact that estrogen is not bad for men.
You are pretty much arguing against some of
The best docs in the industry.
We’ve all already said that ai is used for the very select few and sometimes never.
Until you can wrap your head around the benefits there is zero discussion that can be had.
What is that supposed to mean? How does studies on e levels in physiological range prove ANYTHING about supra-phsyiological levels of estrogen?
NO ONE has argued that E2 doesn’t have benefits. But when it gets into supra-physiological range it can cause edema (especially in the ankles) and this water retention leads to high blood pressure. Not to mention it is a contributing factor in cystic acne, night sweats.
This is very common knowledge, the fact that none of you understand this shows your immaturity on the subject matter.
I do not take an AI myself, that doesn’t mean I am not going to call you out when you make blatantly false blanket statements.
Doctor Morgantaler has stated NUMEROUS times, all studies showing benefits with TRT show ALL hormone levels WITHIN physiological range, as soon as you go outside that the data is not relevant anymore.
I can’t believe I even have to explain this to you and your so called experts! It is a joke to me.
Water retention dissapated over time. Giving someone cancer medication to stop a obvious and expected side effect shows how rediculous your protocols are for men.
Ffs I had water retention for 3-4 months and now it’s gone.
Itchy nipples … gone.
What kind of a professional are you … suppiably you have treated thousands, yet you attack others and argue with others like a bafoon.
All you do is disrespect others and you are farthest from how a doctor normally carries himself.
Who are you and what are you. Your a waste of time if anythjng