Difficulties in Achieving Orgasm

Pharma TRT
392

AnaStrazole is bad. I get what you are saying, but there lies the issue.

Estrogen has beneficial properties. Blocking estrogen is like blocking free t or DHT.

If folks would stop blaming estrogen they would find other solutions to their symptoms.

Eric Serrano, Dr. Nichols, Dr. Rouzier, Nelson virgil and so many more will tell you that patients who do not go online researching TRT never complain of estrogen symptoms. The doctors are allowed to do their job and dial that patient in.

The patients that do have issues blame estrogen because nobody had really gotten to the crux of the issue .they see this nonsense online about gyno and high e2 symptoms. Yet there is zero evidence. Zero studies. Please look. When you find these studies all you find is benefits.

Folks take an ai and feel better. Why? They develop a bias. Instead of thinking ā€œwait if I have less T converting to E, then Iā€™m effectively raising my free t and DHTā€ they think estrogen is the culprit. Now they feel good to an extent. Yet they do not realize how
much greener the grass is on the other side.

Guys reading this that stopped the ai please respond. What got better after you stopped worrying about estrogen?

Blocking estrogen came from the body building community taking gram or more of testostorone and other anabolics. Blocking estrogen is not a practice that was found out of necessity or due to clinical studies or any evidence. Not one of these doctors who prescribed ai can tell you why it helps the patient, except for ā€œclients ask for it and clients feel betterā€ā€¦ so they blindly continue dishing out this drug and allowing estrogen manipulation. If you ask them why blocking estrogen helps they canā€™t back it up with any real world data or evidence.

Any doctor armed with the proper knowledge should care for their patients longevity, health, and quality of life. If they allow a patient to take poison and block an important hormone; then they are not Doing right by their patient.

I guarantee you the docs who give ai either give it to patients because they expect it or they donā€™t know any better.

Ask dr. Saya: even he says ā€œ90% of patients will never need an ai, but I give it to protect my license. He is in fear that he will get sued if someone ends up with gyno.

What he knows and does not put into practice is ā€œgyno is not created due to trt. It occurs due to an imbalance of hormones.ā€ā€¦ Trt is a balancing act of hormones friends. The body finds the balance. We simply optimize how much it gets and how efficiently it operates through life style and dietary changes.

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393

Ok. I agree with you. AI bad. Estrogen not bad. Butā€¦ Lets clarify your statement here. You say that your body makes estrogen for a reason. True. Lets talk about that. Its a critical part of the NATURAL feedback loop right. So your hypothalamus signals the pituitary to churn out lh and fsh to signal the testicles into producing more testosterone. Your testosterone rises and aromatase enzyme begins its job and converts testosterone into estrogen. Once estrogen raises to a particular level the hypothalamus slows down production of lh and fsh. In trt this never happens. We increase our levels beyond where they were naturally and typically at or above mid range and we just keep stabbing needles into our chosen location on a weekly basis. If our endocrine systems were functioning and they are supposed to then none of this would ever be necessary. Unfortunately they are not and our bodies are being manipulated hormonally. Iā€™m not here to argue if estrogen is bad for men or not but estrogen has a rile and thats to stop the production of testosterone along with joint health and skin and a host of other benefits.

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394

I have explained the difference so many times, everyone saying an AI is bad is really confused. Just because you didnā€™t need an AI doesnā€™t mean other people donā€™t.

I have worked with thousands of guys, so there is really nothing you can say to change my mind because I have seen it with my own eyes thousands and thousands of times.

Yes there are people that need an AI. Yes there are many people on AIā€™s a decade and no issues, I even posted lab work of a person and I bet there are few peoples lab work here that is as good.

No not everyone will need an AI, and yes the longer you are on your body tends to become more tolerant of the exogenous T so many people need it initially and not a year or 18 months down the road, this is because, as I have explained numerous times, TRT reduces waist circumference and increases shoulder and pectoral LBM, because there are more androgen receptors here. So the longer you are on T and the more LBM you gain and the more fat tissues you lose, the less likely you are going to aromatize.

This is just a fact. Not sure why people are trying to argue it. Oh well, do as you please, let your E2 run wild just make sure you are monitoring PSA.

395

Whatā€™s up brotha. I get it. I totally get it. My answer is that if your testostorone is higher than what the body needs you will not feel good and yes probably try to block estrogen to find symptom relief.

The solution is to slowly lower your dose until the body gives you a thumbs up. Or raise. If itā€™s a new patient he needs to quantify how bad these symptoms are ā€¦ more often than not he will realize the body adapts to the new influx of hormones.

The goal on trt is to find a dose that resolves symptoms. One should modify the dose in order to find that status. One should not , or
does not need to start blocking hormones in order to find a solution. The basic negative here is 1. You lose those benefits of estrogen and 2. You will never reach 100% of the benefits trt can give a man.

I believe every man has a natural ratio and we need to find it. Hence the negative feedback you mentioned.

For old trt users raising dose doesnā€™t cause as many problems versus a new user. Why! Becusse the body has adapted.

I had very high free t when I started out on the cream and didnā€™t feel great, but over time my body adapted and I feel better. Thatā€™s after I started feeling Trt (3-4months in- because I fixed thyroid). Even then I had all kinds of sides and those so/called estrogen symptoms people speak of. I didnā€™t change a thing and every few weeks I got better and better.

We do live in a world where instant gratificTion is real. Iā€™m glad I had good guidance here and doc.

396

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C41&q=exogenous+testosterone+estrogen+overload&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DeEeTYH2QCo4J

This has turned into quite the thread. Above is an article for those trying a restart.

As with all biochemical processes in the human body they work through a biofeedback loop. Hormones and hormone receptors. Once you begin exogenous testosterone you short circuit the loop. Certain individuals can then get runaway estrogen build up because of the lack of feed back.

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397

I understand your argument, but this doesnā€™t really hold water. Guys on cycles with total T well over 3000 and free T in the stratosphere feel fantastic. Too much T is not a baseline thing, most guys feel fantastic with high T numbers.

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398

This is my frame of reference as well. Ive been around guys my whole life that cycle gear and they feel awesome when they are on. So much so they hate being off. They dont like pct or cruising. Ive got one buddy that stayed on gear for 3 years straight. Not cruising at trt levels but legit cycles for 3 years. Dude was nuts. Lol

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399

Iā€™m trying a hgher TRT dose at 220mg/week one shot.

Do you think there is any need for an ai? Or should I just see if I get symptoms?

400

I am willing to buy into the idea that itā€™s a reaction to E2 shooting up and that waiting it out (like enackers did) allows the body to adjust to the new levels and eventually lower the E2 on itā€™s own to a comfortable ratio, and that this is probably a better thing than using an AI to deal with symptoms during the transition. I donā€™t believe that we are looking at the same E2 ratio on TRT that we have under natural production, it just isnā€™t - for a variety of biological reasons. Can your T go too high? I give you an extreme case of a friend that has been at 12 grams a week on cycle. He went until he just couldnā€™t take it anymore and would cycle off. That was too much (and didnā€™t make sense from a risk/reward perspective). Other guys on 3-6 grams feel like god. And they are using AIā€™s to keep that E2 in check.

401

From what I just got do e reading, research articles, itā€™s mainly the T/E ratio. Once E goes beyond T, problems begin

402

3, 6, 12 GRAMS? Holy shit, haha. I thought thatā€™d be Insta heart attack or something

403

Testosterone is not a stimulant. Question is at what point have you completely saturated your androgen receptors and reap no rewards beyond that point.

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404

Good explanation on the reasoning to control Estrogen. Iā€™m ordering more DIM

405

In theory, sure. But many guys using this for performance enhancement use substantial qualities and varieties with no apparent saturation. Iā€™m not sure what it takes to do that, but there is a limit of return beyond a certain level. Not no return, but itā€™s a diminishing return that makes it not worthwhile. Free T is used in the production of your catecholamines, so it is indirectly related to production of stimulants.

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406

So far I found 3 supplements used to control estrogen if you feel its getting out of control.

Stinging nettle (not the root)

DIM, we all know

Passion Flower Extract

Of the 3 Stinging nettle seems to be the strongest, which is odd cause DIM is mentioned a lot.

407

How is that? I donā€™t really think itā€™s an issue ā€œhigh free tā€, but thereā€™s s point of diminishing returns and sometimes you simply donā€™t feel as good.

Lab ranges are nonsense. I was also only responding to his question not making a comment .

408

Yes that is true and why we donā€™t see improvement beyond a certain point.

409

When talking therapy ai isnā€™t needed were working with natural like levels.

Again and as you just proved ai is from the body building world and patients + doctors should recognize this.

Thatā€™s something new and some
Old guys here donā€™t get. They have merged a practice used for those using grams of test and applying thisnto their 200mg dose.

410

Not to take away from the T/E debate Iā€™m starting to notice a change after starting the pumpkin seed oil at approx 1200 mg divided daily. Last night was the first night in a very long time I slept entire 8.5hrs with no midnight bathroom trips. It was great.

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411

Weā€™re not really talking about that though, weā€™re talking about natural-like test levels - sort of. We measure trough levels for TRT, but peak levels for natural. TRT also results in higher E2 than natural. Studies like the one on the Japanese American population that found higher risk of stroke coinciding with elevated E2 defined ā€œElevatedā€ as above 42.5, Most of us run at least that on TRT I would bet.

My knowledge of PED use is not body building related, itā€™s from Strength Athletics, where most guys ran high doses and no AI at all. There is also a prevalence of death at a young age, attributed to the ambiguous ā€œcongenital heart defectā€. Those guys did not all have a congenital heart defect, and Iā€™m not suggesting that weā€™re all looking at the same outcome at TRT levels. Arguing that pushing free T to beyond accepted natural ranges is a solution because it makes you feel great doesnā€™t hold water, lots of things make you feel great but are dangerous long term and it takes a lot of data to find causation. We are walking around with an unnatural test/E2 ratio on TRT, so the fact that some guys have issues with it, and most of us require at least an adjustment period is not surprising at all.

1 Like