Nice lifts 
I gain a little more than you from the shirt, and go a little tighter, e.g. at 87 I should fit a 40 F6, at 95 where Im at now, a 42 F6 is kind of loose.
My RAW numbers is just way to low… 120kg/175kg for bench.
Im kind of chuppy so I guess that part of the reason I can touch in tight shirts, and ofcourse a good arch + short arms helps too.
[quote]cookie_sq wrote:
Nice lifts
I gain a little more than you from the shirt, and go a little tighter, e.g. at 87 I should fit a 40 F6, at 95 where Im at now, a 42 F6 is kind of loose.
My RAW numbers is just way to low… 120kg/175kg for bench.
Im kind of chuppy so I guess that part of the reason I can touch in tight shirts, and ofcourse a good arch + short arms helps too.[/quote]
I’m 175cm, chest 48" (maybe little more, I remmember when I was ordering shirt 2 months ago it was 48), and arms are about 17" (i dont measure them so this is a wild guess now I just looked at them)…
I think this is more important than what your weight is…
also, as far as shirt carryover, I wrote my best numbers, but those were not on the same day in the same training cycle, so I dont get 50kg out of the shirt… when I benched 250 I was maybe good for 170 (I remmember how last warm-up at that meet felt with 140)… and when I did 200 RAW paused, I remmember that I tried a shirt and got maybe 230…
thing is after that meet I did RAW training only, for 2-3 months, my bodyweight stayed the same, my RAW bench improved, but since I havent done shit in the shirt, of course, the last workout in RAW cycle, I’ve tried it, and saw that carryover and BENCH went down…
so there is NOT direct carryover how much I get from the shirt, it depends… and I dont quite know it… depends when you try your maxes… after shirted cycle carryover goes up, RAW bench doesnt improve, and more times than not goes down… after a RAW training cycle, when you really peak in that RAW bench, if you try the shirt carryover and shirted bench went down… in a mixed training cycle where you try to concentrate on both, everything is there, but neither of the lifts is really peaked (shirted nor RAW)
I think in the cycle when I did 270 my RAW was 180, now I didnt trained in the shirt for few weeks and yesterday I did 180x4…
so this depends, thats why I dont like training in the shirt all the time, it messes up in my head if I cant get at least 200…
everything I wrote above was done single ply Fury 42, and the tight shirt I was reffering to is Grid Stitch Katana 42, those 42 are NOT THE SAME 42 as single Fury… the sleeve gets stuck 3cm above the wrist and from there on it takes two guys and 45 minutes to get them to the top of my arm…
when I say arms go blue, they really go so numb, I cant make my fist either, so training partners have to put my hands around the bar… thats how I injured my hand, one guy didnt put my hand right, and when I did the lift and took the shirt off I felt the pain… they’re completely cold… blue… you can hit them with a hammer and I wouldnt feel a thing (I dont know why but I was quite impressed when I saw them like that)…
I never had problems touching, like I said, my arch is good, in meet preparation if I really work on it, I can get it to 5" stroke…
thats why I never understood people freaking out with new shirt… I touched my first time in the shirt and everytime afterwards… I mean weight like my opener and above that, I do not even try to touch 140 and light stuff like that…
before, when I was younger, I paid attention to every detail concerning the shirt, like sleeves, collar, this, that, buying MM DVDs, looking at the videos… etc.
now, since I said that I’m not as dedicated, I’m more like “just put the thing on and bench fast so you can get out of it fast”…
gavra
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Not to be a dick but that doesn’t exactly smack of intelligence. I assume that was your first time in one of these shirts. Using extreme examples never works. The bottom line is you want the cuff to be tight enough to stay where you put it. Any tighter is unnecessary and dangerous and any looser is silly.
[/quote]
yeah, you’re right, I just gave an example from my personal experience… I wrote that so people can get a conclusion like “tighter doesnt always mean better”… instead of “tightness really doesnt matter”…
nope, it wasnt my first time… I like to go all extreme sometimes to see what happens, especially with training equipment… and Grid Stitch has even less give than regular katana, so it was really an experience just putting it on…
bottom line is like you said, you need it just tight enough so it does its job when you bench… and not tighter… and not looser…
also like we already all agreed on… with katana, because of less give/stronger material, twisted sleeve design and more radical sleeve angle, sleeves dont need to be as TIGHT AS WITH FURY (original question was about comparing sleve tightness in fury-katana)… and that 90% of the support comes from the chest plate…
i think everything else now is on burt128, he has to try it, see how it goes, and get back…
he got his question more than answered hehehehehe
gavra
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
jackreape wrote:
Katana has way less give, so sleeves need to be larger or you wouldn’t get them on. Katana is all about stiffness and chest plate tightness. The arm angle makes th esirt too but that is too technical to go into.
Agree on all points but wanted to emphasize the sleeve comment. There are several things that trip lifters up with the Katana but one of the biggest problems I see is lifters not using some kind of slipper on the arms and pushing the cuff high up the arm (I try to get 4 finger widths from teh back of the elbow with the arm bent) before they pull it over the head.
Once it is over the head and the slack pulled out of the sleeve, if you have not allowed enough slack in the sleeve to seat the pits you are done. The son of a bitch won’t move. It is virtually impossible to seat it at that point.
[/quote]
Some more thoughts…
i don’t always have my pits seated, and don’t worry about it but will take that onboard and play with it a bit. What i find to be critical is getting sleeves symmetrical and twisted correctly, getting the shoulders seated correctly more than the pits(maybe the same thing, maybe not) on both arms and moving collar up and down.
What i mean by symmetrical is the seam being the same place in relation to the elbow on each arm. i actually pull my sleeves on inside out to get seeam line right where i want it, then pull shirt up the arm and over my head. This causes shirt sleeves to double over and lock even more on bicep. To get twist you are essentially rotating seam from inside of elbow to outside. More twist makes a better shirt and katana does this on its own as it is in many ways just an F6 with a spiral seam and harder fabric. Still, you can move the seam a bit in a Katana. If you have a Fury or F6 try putting the shirt on with your thumbs pointing at each other, then put it on with thumbs up as you pull shirt on, then try it with thumbs pointed away from each other. This increases sleeve twist and makes shirt better.Learned this form James burdette.
By seating shoulder i mean having somebody hold shirt shoulder while you swim the arm into the shirt. Jeff Douglas showed me this.
Finally, moving the collar down lower makes it harder to touch, and moving it up makes a lighter weight touch. You have to play with this yourself.
Good luck
Just on the sleeve issue, when you put it on inside out you’ve effectively doubled the bottom of the sleeve right? Near the elbow like.
I’ve tried doing it before and the sleeve stayed doubled down towards the bottom so I assumed I had done something wrong. Is this desirable?
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Just on the sleeve issue, when you put it on inside out you’ve effectively doubled the bottom of the sleeve right? Near the elbow like.
I’ve tried doing it before and the sleeve stayed doubled down towards the bottom so I assumed I had done something wrong. Is this desirable?[/quote]
This is a good thing as long as you have the seam located the same way on both arms. The double over locks the shirt even harder which is great with the twist and needed with the loose Katana sleeves. One of my issues with Inzer stuff is sleeves are way too small, and i do not have big arms.
I was under the impression that any doubling over of the sleeves was not permitted in IPF comps. Am I way off on this?
That said, we’ve set shirts like Jack Reape suggested and it gives you a lot more support behind the arms. Makes it an absolute bastard to touch, but it flies up!
[quote]smokotime wrote:
I was under the impression that any doubling over of the sleeves was not permitted in IPF comps. Am I way off on this?
That said, we’ve set shirts like Jack Reape suggested and it gives you a lot more support behind the arms. Makes it an absolute bastard to touch, but it flies up![/quote]
i dont think they’ll make problems in IPF… i lifted there, and unless you’re breaking WR of some kind they wont inspect you after every lift you make…
by the rules you shouldnt be allowed to have ANYTHING under your bench shirt, yet most of the lifters have pieces of plastic bags that are left under the sleeves when they tried to pull them out and they ripped (if they used plastic bags to assist with putting the shirt on)…
by the rule book, they can strip off your bench shirt, and disqualify you… but who follows that to the letter…
I’ve seen this on IPF meets they didnt made problems altough its against the rules…
same for doubling the sleeves… especially that there is NO rule about doubling the sleeve… as far as I remmember, and there IS rule about having something under your shirt…
my last IPF meet was in 2005 so dont get me wrong for the rules thing, they change that too often… I know what I remmember from back then…
gavra
[quote]smokotime wrote:
I was under the impression that any doubling over of the sleeves was not permitted in IPF comps. Am I way off on this?
That said, we’ve set shirts like Jack Reape suggested and it gives you a lot more support behind the arms. Makes it an absolute bastard to touch, but it flies up![/quote]
smokotime,
Rules say you can’t have two layer gear, anything under your gear that is supportive, and sleeve must not go over elbow. Now the IPF is a wonderland of Heinzs and Dieters who come up with all kind of interesting interpretations that are not in writing so somebody may give you a problem but it is not specifically excluded. Nobody has said anything to me and i have lifted in front of many tough IPF/USAPL judges who are looking for a reason to red light you.
In other feds they wouldn’t care.
jack
[quote]smokotime wrote:
I was under the impression that any doubling over of the sleeves was not permitted in IPF comps. Am I way off on this?
That said, we’ve set shirts like Jack Reape suggested and it gives you a lot more support behind the arms. Makes it an absolute bastard to touch, but it flies up![/quote]
You can accomplish basically the same thing by running a diagonal seam (taking in the sleeve) right across the cuff. Just pinch it so it tabs outward. That will give you something else to hold onto when putting it on.
Having had enough confrontation with judges in my time over legal alterations, as Jack eluded to, there is always the risk someone decides to take issue with doubling the sleeves. In fact, I recently watched a Cat 1 ref tell a lifter they in fact could not fold over their sleeves and they would in fact have to be pushed up over the elbow. This created a big problem for the lifter.
My thoughts on the topic is you are better off steering clear of potential controversial things.
BTW, Jack. That’s probably the last time you do that…;>…who knows who cruises this forum…heh heh.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
smokotime wrote:
I was under the impression that any doubling over of the sleeves was not permitted in IPF comps. Am I way off on this?
That said, we’ve set shirts like Jack Reape suggested and it gives you a lot more support behind the arms. Makes it an absolute bastard to touch, but it flies up!
You can accomplish basically the same thing by running a diagonal seam (taking in the sleeve) right across the cuff. Just pinch it so it tabs outward. That will give you something else to hold onto when putting it on.
Having had enough confrontation with judges in my time over legal alterations, as Jack eluded to, there is always the risk someone decides to take issue with doubling the sleeves.
In fact, I recently watched a Cat 1 ref tell a lifter they in fact could not fold over their sleeves and they would in fact have to be pushed up over the elbow. This created a big problem for the lifter.
My thoughts on the topic is you are better off steering clear of potential controversial things.
BTW, Jack. That’s probably the last time you do that…;>…who knows who cruises this forum…heh heh.[/quote]
apw,
LOL! At this point i am not real interested in judges except that they turn the lights on correctly, and often they don’t. When i get a bad call i just consider for every 2 or 3 bad calls i get 1 that comes out good for me.
Most of the judges who have been my nemisises over the years have turned out to be nice folks who need glasses and a rule book test…and a high voltage lead to their chair for “feedback”.
Once i had a real issue with a judge and was planning on a brilliant diatribe to give them their commeuppance, and as i approached the judge for my brilliant soliloquy i could see tears and pain all over their face.
Hoping they had just reviewed on tape the lift they screwed me out of, i asked what was going on, and the judge explained the personal hell in their life that i don’t even wish most of the time on a head judge who calls me for depth from the head judge chair. This was a bad scene and gave me a bit of perspective about judging. It is a problem and the only way to deal with it is make your next attmept or go to the jury if there is one. And be thankful for all the good things in your life that not everybody shares.
You can always slam them on the internet later…
[quote]jackreape wrote:
apw,
LOL! At this point i am not real interested in judges except that they turn the lights on correctly, and often they don’t. When i get a bad call i just consider for every 2 or 3 bad calls i get 1 that comes out good for me. Most of the judges who have been my nemisises over the years have turned out to be nice folks who need glasses and a rule book test…and a high voltage lead to their chair for “feedback”.
Once i had a real issue with a judge and was planning on a brilliant diatribe to give them their commeuppance, and as i approached the judge for my brilliant soliloquy i could see tears and pain all over their face. Hoping they had just reviewed on tape the lift they screwed me out of, i asked what was going on, and the judge explained the personal hell in their life that i don’t even wish most of the time on a head judge who calls me for depth from the head judge chair. This was a bad scene and gave me a bit of perspective about judging. It is a problem and the only way to deal with it is make your next attmept or go to the jury if there is one. And be thankful for all the good things in your life that not everybody shares.
You can always slam them on the internet later…
[/quote]
As usual, well put Jack.
Well, I finally made it into the gym this weekend with enough spotters around to try it out. Worked up to 515 (best is 485). I was able to press them all, but nothing touched. 515 went to about a 2 board level or so.
I’ll give it another whirl in a couple of weeks. The chest panel is insanely tight, but I’m pretty confident that once I get this broken in I’ll be able to touch something in high 400s.
Where can i find more info on picking a squat suit and bench shirt for your first meet.sumo deadlift and wide stance squat.how much are peopel getting out of deadlift suits. i know it is impossible to know how much you get out of your shirt and suit but is there some range or can people reading this forum give feedback as to there experiene with different suits/shirts.
sorry if this has been answered a million times but i have tried searching for a beginner thread on picking gear and what you should know about training in gear vs. training raw but cant find it.hopefully i dont start a war on the forum but any help would be greatly appreciated.
[quote]d22 wrote:
where can i find more info on picking a squat suit and bench shirt for your first meet.sumo deadlift and wide stance squat.how much are peopel getting out of deadlift suits. i know it is impossible to know how much you get out of your shirt and suit but is there some range or can people reading this forum give feedback as to there experiene with different suits/shirts.
sorry if this has been answered a million times but i have tried searching for a beginner thread on picking gear and what you should know about training in gear vs. training raw but cant find it.hopefully i dont start a war on the forum but any help would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]
Titan Centurion NXG Super+. No question in my mind.
I get FA on my pulls… maybe 10kg (22lb), tho I should be getting more (I’m working on it). On squats I get approx 50-60kg (110-130lb) from my suit and wraps. Although again, I should be getting more. The carryover is climbing tho, and it’s climbing along with my ab strength.
Thanks Hanley