Many of these militants have no choice. The Palestinians of Gaza and West Bank are living under constant military occupation. Very little food, fuel, aid, water, etc are allowed into Gaza. It is inhumane. It is incredibly irresponsible for Israel to kill 400 civilians and wound thousands more over some non-lethal rocket attacks.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Yeah. Hard to avoid schools, homes, and community centers when Hamas builds their targets and military infrastructure AROUND them.[/quote]
Do you honestly believe that? The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated places in the world. What do you expect?
[quote]Salti wrote:
Many of these militants have no choice. The Palestinians of Gaza and West Bank are living under constant military occupation. Very little food, fuel, aid, water, etc are allowed into Gaza. It is inhumane. It is incredibly irresponsible for Israel to kill 400 civilians and wound thousands more over some non-lethal rocket attacks. [/quote]
Israelis have been killed by those rockets.
Well then Hamas shouldn’t be launching rockets into Israel from there.
[quote]Salti wrote:
Many of these militants have no choice. The Palestinians of Gaza and West Bank are living under constant military occupation. Very little food, fuel, aid, water, etc are allowed into Gaza. It is inhumane. It is incredibly irresponsible for Israel to kill 400 civilians and wound thousands more over some non-lethal rocket attacks.
jsbrook wrote:
Yeah. Hard to avoid schools, homes, and community centers when Hamas builds their targets and military infrastructure AROUND them.
Do you honestly believe that? The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated places in the world. What do you expect?
[/quote]
Yes. It’s not just a matter of dense population and lack of space. Hamas has launched its rockets FROM schools and community centers in the past. It uses homes, schools and community centers as launching pads. And encourages matyrdom from its citizens, including children.
Hamas also PURPOSELY targets civilians in Southern Israel. These rockets purposefully target vulnerable southern Israeli cities such as Sderot and nearby environs, landing in or near private homes, schools, colleges, and daycare and recreation centers. Places with no real Israeli military targets. Not to mention the suicide bombers that target civilians. Sent and applauded by Hamas.
I don’t always find Israel’s response justified. Maybe there are ways it could cause less civilian casualties. But Hamas is the party that bears the brunt of the blame. It DOES put its own citizens in harms way. And does INTENTIONALLY target Israeli civilians.
[quote]Salti wrote:
Many of these militants have no choice. The Palestinians of Gaza and West Bank are living under constant military occupation. Very little food, fuel, aid, water, etc are allowed into Gaza. It is inhumane. It is incredibly irresponsible for Israel to kill 400 civilians and wound thousands more over some non-lethal rocket attacks.
[/quote]
This year alone, Hamas, which expressly calls for the obliteration of Israel, has launched approximately 3,000 rockets and mortar bombs into Israeli civilian centers, always for the purpose of killing and maiming Israelis if possible, and terrifying those who are not actually hit. In the last week or so, Hamas has fired some 200 rockets and bombs into Israeli communities.
And why do you ignore the Israeli casualties. Few. But many more injuries. Is Israel just to sit there because casualties are low and allow the count to rise before responding? Watch their citizens live under consistent rocket fire while doing nothing? What do you think it should be doing? As someone said before, if Canada was ineffectually firing rockets across the boarder–killing a few here, injuring many more there–what do you think we would do?
A couple of years ago the Israelis DID
abandon some settlements. I notice things seem to have gotten worse since then so maybe that isn’t the solutions. Might
have to resettle some of those areas in order
to have natural boundaries that can be defended.
The Israeli public are not blood-thirsty zionists, but thanks to the media it will appear so.
Yes I have to agree with you on this, the media in Europe particularly the BBC are criminal in their reporting of this and other political/religious stories. One column had the title “Israel Addicted to Violence”.
The America media’s not much better. I don’t think I saw a single headline that acknowledges that Israel RETALIATED after ongoing rocket and mortor fire. Sometimes it’s buried in a throw-away line in the text.
The media here just focuses on the fact that the Arab death toll is higher. Numerous profiles of suffering civilians in Gaza.
Slain Israelis and their loved ones rarely get the same attention in the wake of a suicide bombing or officially-sanctioned Hamas attack. The fact that they purposely place their targets and infrastructure near schools and community centers in Gaza also gets scant attention.[/quote]
I’m not so sure about all that. The media in America is DOMINATED by Jews. Joel Stein from the LA Times recently did a piece on that fact. Israel definitely gets it’s fair share of favorable coverage.
But lets be frank here. Nothing is going to change over there. These people hate each other and always will.
Charlemagne wrote:
But lets be frank here. Nothing is going to change over there. These people hate each other and always will.
I believe that. Have spent quite a bit of time in Israel and the surrounding area and feel the situation is rather hopelss.
Ref the Jewish controlled media, I have wondered about that. I know it is a fact
that people of Jewish extraction do have
considerable holdings in the media but still,
I get the impression that much of what I
see reported has an anti-Israel slant.
I do realize that now all Jews think alike.
They, like the rest of us, can’t be neatly categorized as all left wing or all right
wing.
I have marvelled a bit at how some of the
Islamic terrorists have hired Jewish lawyers to defend them. Doesn’t make sense to me
from either the attorney’s or the client’s
perspective since they have such intractable
differences.
This topic is really difficult to debate. The complexity of the situation is so dynamic. It will take a computer to analyze all the variables involved in this conflict.
Not only does their history date back to the beginning. There is also the present and the future. At present terrorism is a way to make a decent living.
These people need a future. One that will allow them to flourish. However, those with the money don’t want that. Their life’s are about hatred. That goes for the fanatics on both sides.
Until everyone over there wants change, it will not happen!
The Israeli public are not blood-thirsty zionists, but thanks to the media it will appear so.
Yes I have to agree with you on this, the media in Europe particularly the BBC are criminal in their reporting of this and other political/religious stories. One column had the title “Israel Addicted to Violence”.
The America media’s not much better. I don’t think I saw a single headline that acknowledges that Israel RETALIATED after ongoing rocket and mortor fire. Sometimes it’s buried in a throw-away line in the text.
The media here just focuses on the fact that the Arab death toll is higher. Numerous profiles of suffering civilians in Gaza.
Slain Israelis and their loved ones rarely get the same attention in the wake of a suicide bombing or officially-sanctioned Hamas attack. The fact that they purposely place their targets and infrastructure near schools and community centers in Gaza also gets scant attention.
I’m not so sure about all that. The media in America is DOMINATED by Jews. Joel Stein from the LA Times recently did a piece on that fact. Israel definitely gets it’s fair share of favorable coverage.
But lets be frank here. Nothing is going to change over there. These people hate each other and always will.[/quote]
Whatever the demographic of Jews in the media may be, it’s not reflected in the reporting of the Israel/Palestine conflict, which has a decidedly anti-Israel bias.
Bombing people to smithereens is never okay. If you think massive numbers of people on both sides just trying to live their lives losing half their familiy members because of a relatively small number of loonies is in any way justifiable it’s because it’s not your house, your sister, your brother, your father.
Listen to the people who have to live with this mindless terror of bombs dropping all around them, they don’t hate the people on the other side who are also being hammered. They just want it to stop.
And in the end, what has been accomplished? All that loss for not one damn thing.
If you think either side had “no choice” just remember, living without the bombs affords you that luxury. Live IN it and let us THEN see how you feel about “choice.”
And in the end, what has been accomplished? All that loss for not one damn thing.
[/quote]
The muslims dying in the israeli bombings are all going to paradise (if you believe Hamas and other muslim clerics) therefor muslims believe that much has been and will continue to be accomplished. They are actually being done a favour by the israelis if you follow their perverse logic.
I don’t even think removing hamas (as israel are trying to do) will change anything for either side.
Could be a result of farms being used to hide weapons and fighters…Islamist style.
“Members of a Gaza family whose farm was turned into a “fortress” by Hamas fighters have reported that they were helpless to stop Hamas from using them as human shields. They told the official Palestinian Authority daily newspaper that for years Hamas has used their property and homes for military installations from which to launch rockets into Israel, dig tunnels and store arms. According to the victims, those who tried to object were shot in the legs by Hamas.” http://www.pmw.org.il/
"Regarding the Jews, our business with them is only through bombs and guns… the prophet [Muhammad] promised that we will fight you, with Allah’s help, until the tree and stone say: “Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”
[Nizar Rayan, Hamas religious and military leader, Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), Jan. 1, 2009. Note: Rayan was killed on Jan. 2, 2009]
In an article promoting the continued use of suicide terror in the official Hamas newspaper:
“We find more than one condemnation and denunciation of the resistance operations and bombings [suicide attacks], carried out by Hamas and the Palestinian resistance branches… [Eventually] everyone will know that we did this only because our Lord commanded so: ‘I did it not of my own accord’ [Quran] and so that people will know that the extermination of Jews is good for the inhabitants of the worlds.”
[Al-Rissala, (Hamas weekly) April 23, 2007
6- Resurrection dependent on Muslims killing Jews (1)
Hamas goes even further in its religious packaging of genocide. Hamas teaches that the redemption of all of humanity, the anticipated Islamic “Hour” of Resurrection, will happen only when Muslims are killing Jews and the remaining Jews will be exposed by the trees and stones.
Hamas write in Article 7 of the Hamas Charter:
“Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet [Muhammad] said: ‘The time (of Resurrection) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!’”
[Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985]
Why aren’t you ever able to show up to express outrage for any of the misdeeds done by Muslims? Here’s a particularly loathsome one: jihadists butt-raping Muslim boys so that they’re shamed enough to blow themselves up:
Now, I have heard that in several collections of Imam Bukhari’s hadiths (admittedly, not those considered sahih), Muhammad used to “suck the tongues of boys,” so maybe this isn’t exactly considered “bad” in Islam (not to mention the pearl-faced boys promised to martyrs in the Qur’an). Perhaps it’s like prison rape, where only the person raped is considered a homosexual. Perhaps that explains your lack of outrage.
Israel came to be and is doing to the Arabs what the Americans did to the Indians.
They shouldn’t be there and it shouldn’t exist. Simple as that. Anyone that argues otherwise does not understand the full picture.
The Israelis are a racist bunch. We have Jewish business partners that went to Israel and were really unpleasantly surprised that Israeli Jews view non Israeli Jews as lesser citizens too.
60 minutes had a piece how Israeli soldiers enter Arab homes forcefully and stay for days on end. Sleep in their beds eat their food and control who comes in and out of a house. Happens all the time. Israel is no beacon of Angelic behavior. It’s a state built on other peoples land and taken by force. Ofcourse theres going to be fighting.
Why aren’t you ever able to show up to express outrage for any of the misdeeds done by Muslims? Here’s a particularly loathsome one: jihadists butt-raping Muslim boys so that they’re shamed enough to blow themselves up:
Now, I have heard that in several collections of Imam Bukhari’s hadiths (admittedly, not those considered sahih), Muhammad used to “suck the tongues of boys,” so maybe this isn’t exactly considered “bad” in Islam (not to mention the pearl-faced boys promised to martyrs in the Qur’an). Perhaps it’s like prison rape, where only the person raped is considered a homosexual. Perhaps that explains your lack of outrage. [/quote]
This is an interesting read, what’s your take on it
Also, where in the Koran are the pearl faced boys promised?
If you are refering to this passage:
The Prophet Muhammad was heard as saying: ?The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah (a Damascus suburb) to Sana?a (Yemen)?
Then you are out of luck, it is not Koran it is Hadith and a Gharib one at that.
Mind you, not like you to let the truth get in the way of a good argument.
