The last question is what I thought first reading this thread
The problem with a private medical system (donāt get me wrong, the universal health system is likely worse in other instances) is that the patient is the client. Some doctors have loose ethics and will prescribe anything with very little justification (not the harsh stuff of course). OR it could be even worse: a doctor who simply look at numbers and donāt think about about the patient.
Sometimes this could be an advantage. Here in Germany you got the opposite problem, you donāt get anything. No labs, no TRT, and no MRIsā¦and the doctors donāt get paid enough so thereās no doctors in small villages. Like you said, both have their issues.
I have a question:
All my overtraining/low cortisol symptoms have improved since switching my frequency/volume of training. I still donāt feel as good as I think I should. Iām on a very high replacement dose, +200mg weekly and Iāve even tried adding in proviron on top of this, thinking it may help. My free test should be through the roof and I should be feeling great. But I still feel low cortisol. Despite these symptoms improving after training differently, I still feel fatigued and brain fogged.
I was wondering, could my free test be TOO high? Testosterone suppresses cortisol release (I believe), could I be on too high a dose to allow adequate cortisol release?
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Whatās the odds that your still doing to much volume and work ?
Well shit. I figured Iād go to the gym and decrease the volume even more, just to see how I felt before I responded to ur post. Youāre correct. I feel much better rn having trained lighter, but my workout was still productive.
I guess I just need to keep reminding myself that I canāt train the same way I did while I was enhanced (And the same way I have done for the past year+ since coming off the drugs).
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stop doing the Big Lift for a while and keep doing some easy lower stress isolation work ! see how it goes
Worth a shot. Iāll give that a try and see how it goes.
Does anyone have experience with hydrocortisone? Doc will write a script for me he says. I donāt want to take it if it might cause any adrenal suppression, but it sounds like replacing cortisol can give the adrenals a break and time to heal. Havenāt learned too much abt it so far.
Honestly thatās out of my league and Iām not comfortable giving advice in that regard. But I doubt that the problem is with your adrenal glands but rather with the adrenergic receptors.
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Bad idea. You should give yourself time to heal. Not hydrocortisone which will induce Morbus Addison and if dosed too high Cushing too. So you have to taper off, which takes weeks. Man just take a break from the gym, eat a lot of food and sleep. And very importantly, go to bed at the same time every night.
More medication will not solve your problems.
Are you depressed for more than 4 weeks by now?
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You wonāt be back at 100% after a month when you were destroying your body for a few years ā¦it will take time and listen to your body
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Hydrocortisone raises blood pressure and blood sugar and suppresses the immune system. It is massively catabolic but will make you feel energized and wanting to exert yourself. Also generally it stimulates the adrenals to try to release more adrenaline rather than āgiving them a break.ā It may give them a break from making cortisol but stimulate them to make more adrenaline.
Is you blood pressure high or low? Have you confirmed low cortisol?
Adrenal autoimmune destruction can be a cause of low cortisol. Is is closely related to diabetes (type 1 and sometimes type 2 or LADA type 1), thyroid autoimmunity and gluten intolerance. Hydrocortisone can also hide autoimmunity by weakening the immune system.
Low cortisol can also come from pituitary trauma.
I will add that I personally had low T I believe from adrenal desensitization. I was drinking 8-10 cups of coffee a day morning and evening and my T was down to 230. I cut my coffee to 2 cups in the morning and it started rising right away and within 10 weeks was in the 500s. Also Iāve seen it slip in months when I had more caffeine, but currently I stick with 2 cups, skip it 2x/week and holding at total T of 600ish.
Also, do you tend to be in a calorie deficit or surpluss? Trying to gain or lose weight? This is a reasonable conjecture that while calorie restriction raises cortisol levels, intermittent fasting (16+ hours) may HELP in that calorie deficit since growth hormone rises at 12+ hours fasted and does many of the jobs that cortisol has to do in a deficit like mobilizing fat and maintaining blood sugar but without the same catabolic effect on muscle tissue to make glucose.
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Appreciate all the input from everyone. Though I should get more labs to confirm, my guess is Iām experiencing both low cortisol output (like my first lab showed) and beta-adrenergic receptor desensitization. Again, I canāt compare training off-PEDs to training on. 7 days a week, max effort was feasible with drugs, but not anymore. Donāt have the exact lab number, but Iām confident I donāt have a thyroid autoimmunity issues, ABs were good.
I definetely eat an adequate amount of food. My diet is much less disciplined during school, I may be eating too much sugar, but I get more than enough macros/calories daily and take a multivitamin to cover my bases micro-wise. But yes, if Iām honest with myself, I could be sleeping more and eating cleaner.
Iām going to keep training at this further-reduces volume to see how I feel. Today, for instance, I trained legs but skipped heavy squats. Took it easy on compounds like leg press, RDL, and bridges, and then stuck to isolation work at a mediumish rep range. Again, I felt much better after my workout. Good energy, good mood. Iām back to believing that I can fix my issues without more hormones/drugs.
Also, to those who were concerned. Iām not experiencing any depression or anything. Only ever got fatigued and foggy after the gym.
Can you write down the kind of workout you will do for a few weeks ?
I suggest you to take Vitamine D 5000 ul + 1 caps zinc every morning and magnesium glycinate + 4 caps omega 3 before bed ! You can add glycine 5g post workout and before bed if needed ! It will help you t level
My apologies on the late response. My workout split is Legs/Arms+Shoulders/rest/rest/Chest+Tri/Back+Bi/rest
Each workout starts with a compound (usually squat, military press, bench (db or bb), and lat pull downs). Then I follow with isolation exercises. Lifts are about 45 min to an hour.
I found this study. Am I right to assume that chronic beta-alanine supplementation would lead to oversaturation of carnosine and possibly slow metabolism or cause fatigue? Asking because I used to dose beta-alanine before each workout ~4g. Felt the effects diminish pretty fast, as if I had become tolerant. Could have contributed to the fatigue I was dealing with?
Hey,
PharmD here, been in your shoes, done the same crap with drugs, felt higher highs and then lower lows.
I eventually quit everything, ran HCG for a couple months. Recovery from HCG takes a few days, whenever intracellular E2 drops too low. You feel like ass for less than a week and then youāre back to normal. Most fail their PCT because they donāt know how to use HCG, their diet sucks and their SHBG is rock bottom (I bet that describes you if you need 200mg/wk to feel normal) and theyāre blatantly overtraining and only a regimen of AAS could make up for all of the above. Whenever they get back to real life, they have no clue how to handle it. Oh and donāt get me started on SERMs lol.
Basically pretty much everybody out there is incredibly clueless when it comes to drugs.
Most T replacement guys are over trained. Most Reddit/testosterone āI eat clean and I train hardā guys are over trained. This whole mindset of āI do more than you and Iām fineā is internet horseshit. Next thing you know theyāre balding, bloated 24:7, have adult acne or some other āmysterious / geneticā condition. Screw the internet.
All of those years of overtraining means I can only train twice a week AT MOST. Some shoulders and arm warmup, one upper body, one lower body movement. You wonāt lose muscle. Looking flat is only not being swollen. Nothing wrong with this. Youāll look good PWO
4 days a week is still too much. I can sense youāre going too hard, too intense. Like CT said his mega juiced up trainees donāt even do that much volume and bodybuilders definitely donāt go crazy intensity wise.
You have the full capacity to hop off all drugs, forever, restore testicular function, and move on from all the hardcore training mindset. I did it being 10 years older than you are, test back over 600 naturally. You werenāt primary hypogonadal, and you didnāt cause much loss for the short time youāve been on. Get back to natural.
Up to you
This is interestingā¦some comments resonating. Havenāt used any gear so donāt know what applicability it has for ānaturalsā [maybe EC stack / lots of preworkout stims may mimic effect]
Hard for me to sustain any 6x / week program (ala legendary layers days). Usually Legs/Push/Pull 4-6 a week (if 6 then 2-3 of the days are more ātechniqueā work).
Full body is one of those mythical unicorns where thereotically it sounds great (thereās this new viral strand of 5 day/week full body training going around on web [jeff nipard / helms etc.]) but turns to a push/pull/legs with a main movement (with ancillary support/pump work on the other body parts) anyways.
I see a lot of balding dudes with beards and acne. Something really off about the physique/body - you can see excess water retention / estrogen masked by lots of try hard grunting and sweat. Gotta be hormonalā¦