decisions, decisions...

i don?t know what to do anymore…
i can?t decide wether i should gain some muscles on my skinny ass or get down to below 10%bf first and then bulk.
my stats are :
21; 6?1"; 168lbs; 15%bf; 3 years lifting
diet:
lean protein, below 150g carbs, veggies, flax, olive and fish oil. cals slightly above maintenance.

lifting:
moderate-low volume, under 6reps, core lifts.

imediately after my last diet i gained everything back…
i?m sick of jumping between 160 and 170lbs cutting/bulking.
in additon to that i?m pretty weak because i?m dieting a lot of time during the year. besides that, i don?t think i have enough muscle mass making it worth to get shredded. what should i do?
suggestions please.

I think you answered your own question:

If it used to be moving, eat it.

Get some muscles on your skinny ass first. Stop dieting and focus on gaining quality mass while eating quality foods. That’s no excuse to start shoveling down crap, but you do want large amounts of good quality food. If you drink, stop. Eat big, train big, and sleep big.

How much does being at 15%BF bother you? Are you ok with it, or does it lower your self-esteem?

If it bothers you, go on a very short lasting cutting diet like the Steroid Diet. Make sure you take the supplements recommended. Remember, make this phase very short lasting because you have bigger fish to fry.

If your BF% doesnt bother you, or you’ve completed the above phase start your bulking phase. Buy yourself a good pair of calipers and test yourself weekly. You basically have 2 objectives in this phase. 1. Make sure you’re gaining weight. 2. Make sure you are gaining at least 2:1 LBM to fat. Tweak diet and training according to these weekly results.

Best of luck

Why not do both at the same time? With proper nutrition and using Meltdown I and II, you could get leaner and gain the mass!

JB usually recommends getting lean before bulking up (get below 12% bodyfat). In your case, you are “skinny-fat,” so you should try the above to accomplish both goals simultaneously.

Whenever one of my friends or clients approaches me with a similar situation, I ask the following:

If, right now, I could magically reduce your body fat to about 6% and get you totally shredded, with ZERO change in the amount of muscle you have, would you be happy?

If I could pack 20 pounds of mass on you, and still have the same body fat percentage, would you be happier?

Think about that. Decide which is right for you, right now.

Get to work.

well, thanks a lot to everybody, you?ve already helped me a lot with your replies. i?m gonna lay out a diet&training plan for the next 12 weeks
and post it later, so you guys can let me know what you think.

"Why not do both at the same time? With proper nutrition and using Meltdown I and II, you could get leaner and gain the mass!

JB usually recommends getting lean before bulking up (get below 12% bodyfat). In your case, you are “skinny-fat,” so you should try the above to accomplish both goals simultaneously."

What do you consider proper nutrition for the goal of leaning out AND gaining mass?

John Roman - That’s a very good question. Takes a little pondering. I like it.

One, you could get info on this on the Photo forum under a thread posted by Marc McDougal. He succesfully accomplished these goals and talks about it there.

Don Alessi has info that will accomplish the above. Also, by following some of JB’s advice (be sure to see Marc’s thread), you can do the same! It’s all about how you combine your foods and how much you take in versus how much you burn up. And ask Timbo about Maximum Muscularity.

I’m not going to tell you what to do, but I’ll tell you what happened with me and from there you can make your own decision. I was the same as you about 15% body fat and very skinny, so i decided to bulk up. And I ended up gaining mostly fat with a good amount of muscle. So then I ended up dieting and lost a lot of the muscle! It was annoying. SO then I decided to get down to about 6% body fat and do a strength routine for 8 weeks while eating maintanence calories. My body created a new setpoint for my body fat and when I went on my next bulking phase I barely gained any fat, just plain old LBM! :smiley: I don’t know how your body works but when i’m at a high body fat level I gain more fat then muscle when bulking, but at a lower body fat level my body wants to stay lean and puts on lean mass instead :smiley:

i know what jb recommends, and i?ve read the marc mc dougal thread serveral times. i have also tried meltdown one on a low carb diet, but it left me overtrained and weaker.
i want to start OVT monday in a week, while slowly adding calories and eating clean.
my metabolism is still a little slow and i don?t want to make the mistake of jumping from lo-carb to massive eating.
yesterday i consumed 2500 cals, 230g P; 260g C; 77g F (chicken, salmon, cottage cheese, veggies, oatmeal, 60g dextrose pwo, flax and olive oil, 20 fishoil caps)
i?ve you want to know more details regarding nutrition, just tell me.
again, thanks for the help.

what i forgot to mention was, IMO 260g carbs are too much for me, in the future i?ll reduce that to about 200 on lifting days and 150g on off/cardio days.
do you think sprinting twice a week would hamper my progress? currently i do 15 mins of intense running after the weights. on off days i do half an hour of cardio (60-70% of HRmax, as per berardi cardio recommendations).
i?d do the sprints instead of the low intensity cardio, but i?m not sure if i can tolerate that much volume (ovt and sprints).

dr octagon: i plan on doing waterbury’s abb ht and doing sprint on 2 of the off days during the week, with one day completely off. i plan on sucking down around 3500 kcals a day …

i’ll let you know how it goes

“One, you could get info on this on the Photo forum under a thread posted by Marc McDougal. He succesfully accomplished these goals and talks about it there.”

Is that guy really 6% bodyfat? Doesn’t look like it… If he’s 6%, I must be about 3 and I’m not.

21; 6.1"; 168lbs; 15%bf;

Your a stick insect!

At your height and age you should be looking to put some weight on, at least looking to get to 190lbs. You stats aren’t very impressive, i bet if you asked someone you didn’t know if they thought you lifted weights they would laugh at you!

Here’s a diet for you to follow that would keep your bodyfat level low and increase lean body weight.

Muscle Gain Program

Upon Rising

  • 1 x tspn Creatine
  • 1 x tsp L-Glutamine
  • 1 scoop of Maltodextrin
  • Blend all in water

Meal 1

  • 2 x egg yolks and 6 x egg whites scrambled
  • 2 pieces wholemeal toast
  • Large bowl of rolled oats

Meal 2

  • 1 tspn of Creatine
  • Medium tin of tuna or chicken breast
  • 250g low fat cottage cheese
  • Baked potato or rice or pasta
  • Vegetables or salad

Meal 3

  • 1 tspn of Creatine
  • Chicken breast or lean beef
  • Baked potato or rice or pasta or wholemeal bread
  • Large salad or vegetables

Meal 4

  • 1 x 200g Danone flavoured yoghurt
  • or 2 x scoops Whey Protein

Meal 5

  • 2 scoops Whey Protein
  • 1 tspn of creatine
  • 1 tspn of L-Glutamine
  • 1 x Danone flavoured yoghurt
  • 1/2 later - TRAIN

After Training

  • 4 scoops of Maltodextrin
  • 3 scoops Whey Protein
  • 2 tspns Creatine
  • 2 tspns L-Glutamine
  • Blend all in water

Meal 5

  • Lean beef, chicken, or fish
  • Baked potato or rice or pasta
  • Vegetables or salad

Meal 6

  • 2 scoops Whey Protein
  • 1 tspn L-Glutamine
  • 1 Danone flavoured yoghurt
  • Blend in water

Note

  • After 7 days of loading, drop creatine from meals 2 & 3
  • Maintain Creatine dose of 3 tspns a day for 7 weeks, followed by 2 weeks off Creatine
  • Repeat cycle

On rest days

  • Drop supplements used immediately after training

Tip

  • Minimum 3 litres water per day

I would follow a high volume training phase, like the one i follow in ‘My training log’, under the strength training thread.

Good Luck!

I would think gaining the muscle w/ the extra body fat would be easier then cutting & then trying to gain muscle (which will also increase your body fat some, and then you’ll need to cut again) Save yourself afew months of grief, gain mass & THEN worry about cutting.

You might want to try Westside for skinny bastards. It’s a great program and because it’s only three days of lifting, you could easily do a couple days worth of sprinting to keep the fat gain to a minimum while bulking. Combine that with some massive eating and after ten to twelve weeks you should be ready to cut with some decent new LBM to help the process by raising your metabolic rate.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=258713

Some good info…many will disagree with adding muscle/losing fat at the same time…but give it a read some real good info there