Looking for Honest Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Hey, I realize many people post stuff like this but I am in real need of some guidence.

Lately I have been having trouble coming to terms with what my next move should be diet wise.

Let me start out w/ my current stats:
Age: 20
Height: 5’6-5’7
Weight: 125.5 pounds
Training Age: 2 years

Lately my strength has really went to shit. I cannot even bench the 45 plates or squat my bw easily like I used to do when I first started. This makes me think I should try to put on weight but here is my problem.

This will sound really funny(and I feel like a women saying it) but I still ‘feel’ fat. I dont have well defined abs and I can only really make out their perimeter so to speak. Everyone else tells me I look too thin but I have this picture in my head that I need to loose weight.

My question is what do you suggest? I have a feeling that cutting at a bw as low as mine may lead to even more strength problems and probably isn’t the best but I lack the confidence to make the call for myself.

Basically I have read every training article on this site but was just looking for guidence and support when coming to a decision because in all honesty I have lost confidence in myself.

2

I say go on a bulking cycle, you’ll feel a lot different psychologically if you see muscles bulging out of your clothes. I too felt ‘fat’ before I went on a short 2 month bulking cycle, it was only when one of my close friends (a t-vixen named dainah) complimented me on the size of my arms that I realised that bulking was a good idea. Believe me if you add as little as 10 pounds you’ll feel a lot different.

3

First off welcome to the forum, noticed it was your first post.

Second it all mental man. Sounds like a very similar situation that many people like my self whom are FFB?s get into. What YOU see in the mirror is not what is really there. After such a long time with your dedication at shedding fat it can be very addictive and you dont want to ever gain it back again. Fat that is. With any little gain you start cutting again never getting anywhere, just spinning your wheels and even regressing. Yup verg of or even eating disorder.

Fact is you need to work on a comfortable relationship with good food and a solid diet. It is apparent you are not eating enough to support LBM and are losing it, LBM that is. You will never get that six pack you want without having built it first. If you want a six pack you have to have one to uncover first.

At your weight and BF you really need to just work on getting a solid diet. Slowly upping k/cals over a period of time and concentrate on solid training based on compound movements. For now most of your attention for even years needs to be on Nutrition getting a healthy relationship with food learning how it effects you. Get over the whole getting fat thing. Don?t go straight for one of those super massive bulking cycles that will just add mainly fat but consistently raise your intake as you hit new plateaus, slowly building a solid body and relationship with food.

As you gain LBM the little fat you have will be spread over a wider area of MUSCLE. Plus getting your body out of it?s constant position of famine and storage may lead to you even being leaner. Once your body knows it is going to be fed it wont be so afraid of letting go of that fat that it is fiting to preserve in order to keep you ALIVE.

Another great tool can be a camera. Taking pics and viewing them has a weird way of letting you see what others are. That mirror has weird eyes.

So I say take these links read up and get a solid diet going in which you slowly gain weight, size strength, LBM.

7 Habit
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459493

Foods That Make You Look Good Nekid
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460638
The Carbohydrate Roundtable, Part 1&2
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461157
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459360

Fat Roundtable I&II
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461947
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461093

Massive Eating
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460331
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460327
M/E Reloaded
http://www.t-nation.com/...c.do?id=459429
http://www.t-nation.com/...c.do?id=459431

T Dawg 2

These and any / all by Dr?s JB and LL.

Then go with any solid w/o plan by any of these coaches that is concentrated on improving your WHOLE body and based on compound movements.

Build your self a solid base, eat more but eat right. You will be stronger, better looking and healthier. Not only that will be actually on your way to your goal of being lean and ripped by actually gaining weight.

It?;s a huge mental battle, hope this helps, and don?t hesitate to come back with any questions, comments, advice, or mativation,

Were here to help,

Phill

4

Thanks for the reply. The truth is my obsession with optimizing diet probably has started to verge on an ‘eating disorder’ level.

It is so frusturating because no matter how much I read I always feel like I am doing the wrong thing. I feel shitty when I leave the gym because I haven’t made progress so I go home determined to eat more. A while later I look in the mirror and see my non-ripped self and think I am unhealthy/fat and should loose some weight.

As far as diet I was looking at something like (if I choose to ‘bulk’):
165 grams of Protein
200 grams of Carbs
55 grams of Fat
Total Cals 1900-2000 Cals

Training will be TBT + 3 sessions of HIIT each week.

5

As another FFB, this one really speaks to me. After spending about 18 mos. and cutting almost 45 lbs. off my frame in an effort to “get cut,” it took a ton of willpower and time to realize I was well past the point of unhealthy weight loss and really hurting myself. I had cut my calories down to about 1400 per day, and was nearly an invalid (I’m 6’4", and was 170 lbs.) I knew I was starving myself, and getting near to eating disorder status, but couldn’t get away from that feeling of not wanting to get fat again. My bf% was about 10-11, but I wasn’t that cut, muscular guy I wanted to be. I was scrawny and flat.
How I got over it is by thinking in terms of strength and muscle. I quit obsessing over calories as much, and began eating what I needed to get stronger in the weight room. The way I figured, muscle burns fat, so gaining muscle would make any fat I gained easier to lose later. So I didn’t make a diet plan, but I didn’t binge either. I just ate clean foods, and as much as I needed to keep myself going in the weight room. I gained about 5lbs., and actually maintained my bf. That lean mass gain really got me stoked, and I’ve since gone on a more significant bulk that has netted me almost 10lbs. of relatively lean mass. It is a tough process, but finding an alternative goal to get you started such as increasing strength can take the focus off the “mirror image” and make it easier. Good luck, man.

6

I’d just second everything that 'Dr. Phil ’ has said wrt nutrition.

But -

Dude, you gotta have fun in the gym. I’m not talking about ‘midgets and strippers’ fun - but you sound like you have performance anxiety every workout. Your upset with yourself at the end. You don’t feel like your growing any. You feel fat.

Hell everybody feels fat at some point.

Do this - For two weeks don’t look at the scale. Don’t obsess in the mirror. If you have a ‘special mirror’ that love to gaze into - put a sheet over it. Take Phil’s advice and take a before pic. You can feel as fat as you want to , but for two weeks do nothing that would visually feed those feelings. mmmkay?

During that same 2 week period, eat right - like you have outlined, and find a workout program from here at T-nation. I’m quite partial to the TBT by Chad Waterbury - but find a hypertrophy program you enjoy.

Stick with the program for two weeks. Remember - no scales, no gazing into the mirror. At the end of two weeks, snap another photo. If you’ve eaten right and worked out hard you will see a difference in how you look.

Have fun!!! That’s what this whole thing is about. If you obsess on it too much, you suck the fun out of it.

Anyhoo - I could be wrong.

7

Welcome to the site.
I can say with honesty that I have been in a similar position such as yours. I’ve always been thin because of my years of envovlment in basketball, boxing, and martial arts.
What I can tell you, nutrition aside, is that the Process of building your body is a LONG one! So do not focus on the final outcome, enjoy the journey.

OK, now to the training advice. First off, research this site until your head hurts. Find what works for YOU, not what necessarily works for others. Second, by using the Tabatha method in addition to 3 HIT workouts in a week your progress will be hurtfully fruitless. These workouts are designed for the reduction of fat, and not note worthily condusive for muscle mass accrual.
I wouldnt lift for more than 3 or 4 sessions a week. Perhaphs I can suggest a skeleton training parameter for you. This is strictly a generic starting point.

   sets x reps

Day 1
Chin ups/ Lat pulldowns 4x6
Dumbbell row/ Bar Row 5x5
FlatBench press/ Dumbbell press 5x5
Incline Bar Press/ Incline D.B. Press 4x6
Cable Crunches 5x6-8

Day 2
Wide back squat/ Deadlift 5x6
Some form of lunge 4x8
Good Morining/ Romanian D.L. 5x5
standing calf raise/seated 5x6-8
Day 3

Pushpress/ Arnold Press 5x5
Shrugs bar/ dumbbell 4-5x6-8
upright row bar/ dumbbell 4x5
reverse fly/ face pull 3x8

For now, this work out should be enough. I kept the repititions low so you can develope myofibril hypertophy instead of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (if your lost, PM me). I kept the arms out of the loop because they will Receive enough training load Initially. I recommend resting 2 minutes between sets to keep strength levels high. The(/) means alternate option. Do the workout on the left for 2-3 weeks, then switch back and forth.
Just a little FYI, I was 5’10, 160lbs at the Beginning of 2003, now Im 200 lbs. 8% bf. Benching 350, squating 560. You can work hard, or you can work long, but never both. Good Luck

8

Depending on your tolerance for carbs, and your other activities outside of the gym, you might consider cutting the 200 back a little to 150 or even 100 maybe, and focusing it around your training sessions. Surge/dextrose/honey/juice for during/immediate post but the rest of the day, only get carbs from vegetables, and perhaps some porridge. Before I started doing a version of the fat fast recently(yeah me too, everyone’s doing it) I was doing pretty well I felt with a similar plan… veggies throughout the day with meat, nuts and protein shakes, plus a big glass of apple juice postworkout with my creatine and then my shake, and a big bowel of porridge just before bedtime with some protein powder mixed in.

Next time I do this though, I plan to have some Surge on hand and will be following Dr. Berardi’s (I believe I am giving credit to the right person) method of sipping Surge throughout the workout.

EDIT
Sorry, my fingers and my brain don’t seem to have been on the same page, as I did not finish the thought I began there, which I’m sure some are getting ready to flame right now :slight_smile:

I meant to add, that, along with dialing back the carbs a little from your plan, that you might want to up the fat to about 100 grams a day… a mix of saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-3s(fish, flax, and egg). The higher fat calorie percentage will keep testosterone up and will also keep your calorie total up, while hopefully not adding that much to your belt(since you won’t fall victim to mixing fats and carbs I’m sure).

9

Hey Helix,

      I was in a similar situation about a year ago; 150 at 6'. Trust me, you will have much better definition at higher bodyweights. Even if you severely reduce your bodyfat at a low bodyweight, you won't be as cut as you would at a higher bodyweight, simply because your muscles aren't large enough to show through even the 6-8% bodyfat you have. I probably got down into the 6% range once at about 150 pounds; my abs are more defined now at somewhere between 10 and 15% bodyfat then they were then, just because I weight 170 now. I'm sure that I'll look even better in another eight weeks or so, when I've (hopefully) put on another ten pounds and lost any fat I may have gained.
10

Thanks for all the awesome info so far.

About the carbohydrate intake this has always been a point of confusion for me.
On non-workout days my carbs are 50 grams lower and my fat is 25 grams higher or so.

11

Helix-- do yourself a real favor and buy John Berardi’s No Nonsense Nutrition DVD set.

His approach will not only get you on the road to more muscle, but to better body composition as well.

RIT Jared

12

[quote]Mako1983 wrote:

OK, now to the training advice. First off, research this site until your head hurts. Find what works for YOU, not what necessarily works for others. Second, by using the Tabatha method in addition to 3 HIT workouts in a week your progress will be hurtfully fruitless. These workouts are designed for the reduction of fat, and not note worthily condusive for muscle mass accrual.
[/quote]

TBT is total body training, not Tabata. Very solid advice nonetheless.

I would do maybe 1 or 2 HIIT workouts per week. To be honest, I would start off at none, and see what happens when you are training, eating, resting and recovering the RIGHT WAY. If it’s working, don’t mess with it. You are going to have to gain an amount of fat to gain an amount of muscle-- thats just the way it is. However, bulking properly will enable you to minimize the fat, maximize the muscle, and hopefully not stray more than several percent from your body composition goals.

Then after bulking it is time for HIIT and cutting to see where you’re at. Do not skimp the bulking cycle though, or you’ll just be spinning your wheels gaining 2 lbs and then losing 1.5. I would aim for a good 10-15lb bulk at your current size and stats. TAKE PICTURES.

RIT Jared

13

I am going to get a disposable camera since I dont have a digicam and get some pictures put onto cd’s for me.

I modified my eating a little bit and was wondering if this sounds good to you guys:

Workout Day:
165 grams of Protein
178 grams of Carbs
65 grams of Fat
Total Cals = 495 Cals + 1480 Cals = 1975 Cals

Non-Workout Days:
165 grams of Protein
165 grams of carbs
70 grams of Fat
Total Cals = 630 Cals + 1320 Cals = 1950 Cals

Does this sound good to you guys? I think I do need to track my calories a little bit because I under eat when I don’t.

I went and reread most of JB’s articles but I didn’t notice anywhere if he dealt with how to deal with fiber. Do you guys subtract it from your daily totals of carbs?

14

I personally think you’re still getting too few calories. I believe the average person with a moderate metabolism burns about 1200-1400 calories a day, just existing, not even getting out of bed. Considering that the weight training and cardio you are planning will easily use up 500 calories per session minimum, and, you’re going to be boosting your metabolism beyound average by eating frequent meals and exercising, you will at best be in calorie balance, if not in a slight deficit.

As someone else said, don’t skimp on the bulking. Do it right and deal with the slight fat gain during the cut.

As for fiber, I don’t count mine towards calories, though I do try to stay concious of it to keep it in the 30-50 g per day range, less leading to constipation, and more, potentially, leading to reduced nutrient uptake.

15

Your caloric intake still looks low.Eat with this in mind. It isn’t a matter of quality versus quantity. It is a matter of quality AND quantity.
The most effective motivation that I respond to is not external,(looks,responses from others)they are internal-sense of accomplishment,knowing that what I’m doing is benefiting ME!
Pre workout stimulants are great, and they don’t have to be chemical. I get a great lift in when I am so pissed off that I want to crush someone.Caffine helps too.
You can overtrain until you are blue in the face and not get results.Once again, Quality and Quantity.

16

How many calories would you guys suggest? I took my maintanence at around 14xlbm and added 300-400 cals to that.

17

sounds like a case of overtraining and not eating clean. 5.7 at 125lb you have too little mass to be ripped . you need to get back to basic’s . use the big five . squat, deadlift,bench, row, military press, here is a good mass routine day one squat,bench, row, and ab day two bent leg deadlift, military press,ab and calf do a 5x8 with the last three at same weight. do this on three day a week so that you do the whole body twice over 9 days. eat more clean calories. do this for six weeks and see if you were overtraining.

18

Helix,
You need more or less a minimum of 50 lbs of bodyweight. Total Time needed: 2 or even 3 years.
I totally agree with Beast455: you overtrain. TBT is a very good program but too advanced for you. The program I recommend is very similar to the one by Beast455:
Monday: Pullups/Chins,Squat,Bench Presses.
Tuesday Wednesday OFF.
Thursday: Military Presses, Deadlift, Barbell Row.
Friday, Saturday, Sunday OFF.
You may use Lat machine instead of pullups/chins. As you get strong perform pullups/chins (even some singles or some sets of 2 reps are ok to start). For sets and reps see: “Big Boy Basics” by Chad Waterbury. Whenever possible try to add 5% more load to your exercises.
As RIT Jared suggested perform only 1 HIIT each week.
Eat at least 5 meals/day: breakfast,lunch,dinner plus 2 snacks at mid morning and in the afternoon. At each meal drink a big glass of milk. Eat preferably meat,fish,eggs,cheese, vegetables,fruit, some pasta and rice. You have to learn the food caloric intake so you can easily adjust your diet: plan to slowly raise your bodyweight (2 lbs each month) otherwise you may get too much fat.
Hope that helps !
Luca