This video is making the rounds again:
It’s freaking hilarious. But more interesting… Those people hooked up to the machines believed in the “death touch.” Thus, their heart rates jumped and their skin was clammy.
The power of the mind to believe nonsense is amazing.
Ya, this one’s old. I’ve seen it many times. But he’s actually not the worst, George Dillman claims that title.
See for youself: - YouTube
Just listen to this guy’s explaination of why is technic didn’t work… Dillman explains chi KO nullification - YouTube
[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Ya, this one’s old. I’ve seen it many times. But he’s actually not the worst, George Dillman claims that title.
See for youself: - YouTube
Just listen to this guy’s explaination of why is technic didn’t work… Dillman explains chi KO nullification - YouTube
Hahahaha! Yeah, I’ll remember to wiggle my big toes in case I get in a fight so I won’t get knocked out.
For the first video- I would’ve loved to see Stephan Bonnar punch that guy right in the face while attempting the death touch.
Dillman is a fraud. I know people who have stood in front of him and let him do his “death touch” thing only to have it not work. It’s people like that who make the serious martial artists (especially the serious traditional MA’s) look bad.
You just stated my main beef with that kind of thing: the guy himself, who’s the supposed grand master of the art, admits that a) it won’t work against a significant portion of the population and b) all you have to do to cancel it out is either place your tongue in something other than “the proper position” (his words, but what is exactly the proper tongue position that’ll make me sensitive to this chi attack? ) or wiggle your toes.
The question anyone will ask after that is: why on earth waste years mastering that technique?
For that matter, learn to punch correctly! I’ve never seen any amount of toe-wiggling cancelling a punch in the mouth.
[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
You just stated my main beef with that kind of thing: the guy himself, who’s the supposed grand master of the art, [/quote]
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.
Of course, some Krav Magna guy is going to chime in and say he knows stuff that is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. Oy vey.
Just like other scammers like psychics, there will always be “martial arts” schools separating a fool from his money.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Of course, some Krav Magna guy is going to chime in and say he knows stuff that is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. Oy vey.[/quote]
That’s b/c Krav Maga teaches things like hard, repeated kicks/punches to the balls, eye gouging, rabbit punches, etc.
Krav Maga isn’t a sport, but a form of defense.
They won’t kill, just maim.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zen warrior wrote:
You just stated my main beef with that kind of thing: the guy himself, who’s the supposed grand master of the art,
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.
Of course, some Krav Magna guy is going to chime in and say he knows stuff that is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. Oy vey.
Just like other scammers like psychics, there will always be “martial arts” schools separating a fool from his money.[/quote]
I think you generalized too much. Of course there are plenty of people who should not be teaching anybody any martial art. Though that does not make martial arts in general fraudulent.
Not everybody who boxes, does Muay Thai or does jujitsu should think they are somewhat above other martial arts. Also that attitude isn’t beneficial to anyone.
Actually the majority will only be mediocre just like in any other sport or disclipline. If one doesn’t train in their discipline enough at high enough a level and isn’t talented or attained a decent level of proficiency I don’t see how a person could go on criticizing any other martial artist. That goes for traditional martial artists as well.
If one feels they have benefited form traditional martial arts then they shouldn’t be made to feel shame because they don’t do any of the mma basic disciplines.
You left out Sambo and Judo and full-contact karate out of your list though I think you just forgot to mention them as well as wrestling. I also think one shouldn’t limit themselves only to boxing, muay thai and BJJ or boxing and wrestling if they are training seriously. One should have some working experience with other styles. You might learn something.
Like the stylistic differences between Muay Thai and Kyokushin style karate for example. There have been times even at the highest level of mma where guys looked absolutely clueless against an opponent who had experience in a martial art outside the boxing/wrestling/BJJ trinity…Matt Hughes vs GSP for example.
I don’t care much for TKD and such but in sparring it can be very awkward at first not knowing how their style works.
You can hurt people with strikes like that, but if you mess it up, which is easy to do especially in a combat situation, then it can be very costly. And not everyone is the same, and you don’t know what a person is wearing - an item of clothing or something they are carrying can get in the way.
So it is a really stupid thing to depend on.
If training for real life situations you need to train in techniques that work when you are in chaos, drunk, tired, confused, etc…
This is a better approach
Go Bas!
People who say martial arts are bollocks need to stop watching movies (which are bollocks) and register in any full contact tournament and have their ass kicked about in safety to learn them some. Or go to any training centre where they can learn how inept they are, make sure they spar hard so you can’t kid yourself anymore.
Note there are western martial arts that are far older, and far more effective than the eastern ones, just they don’t get made into movies. Why more effective? Because western history is basically one long frikking war for 15,000 years, and the fighting styles are better oriented to bigger, stronger people, and using that to your advantage.
He couldn’t even knock out Stephan Bonnar! Must be a scam!
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam. [/quote]
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it is only the Americanized Mcdojos that are fraudulent. “I train 2 days a week for 1 hour and I’m a black belt after 11 months” riiiiiight. BUT, if you go to Okinawa, Taiwan, Thailand, Japa, or China, you get something different entirely–people who train 6 days a week for 5 or 6 hours a day in little concrete “dojos” or outside or in the jungle. TKD done in Korea is about as different from TKD done in the States as Godzilla is from your pet iguana.
Yeah, they’re both “martial arts”, but there’s really no comparison. I could say the same thing about various styles of karate, kung fu, aikido, heck even tai chi (although to be fair that’s as much a spiritual meditation as anything). There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.
Besides, there’s this whole American thing about perfect technique alone being able to defeat any foe, no matter how big or strong. You don’t really find that anywhere but the West.
For the most part, arts in the east emphasize mental conditioning, emotional conditioning, and physical conditioning (even if they are less than…scientific…in execution) in addition to technique. They recognize you can’t be victorious without all the components. I think it has something to do with working 25 hours a week at becoming really really good.
Besides, if I remember correctly, most “death touch” moves in the East utilize nerve clusters and very hard, debilitating, piercing strikes at said nerve clusters by fingers trained to take the punishment of repeated striking. They are also regarded as extremely sacred, not commercial.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it is only the Americanized Mcdojos that are fraudulent. “I train 2 days a week for 1 hour and I’m a black belt after 11 months” riiiiiight. BUT, if you go to Okinawa, Taiwan, Thailand, Japa, or China, you get something different entirely–people who train 6 days a week for 5 or 6 hours a day in little concrete “dojos” or outside or in the jungle. TKD done in Korea is about as different from TKD done in the States as Godzilla is from your pet iguana.
Yeah, they’re both “martial arts”, but there’s really no comparison. I could say the same thing about various styles of karate, kung fu, aikido, heck even tai chi (although to be fair that’s as much a spiritual meditation as anything). There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.
Besides, there’s this whole American thing about perfect technique alone being able to defeat any foe, no matter how big or strong. You don’t really find that anywhere but the West.
For the most part, arts in the east emphasize mental conditioning, emotional conditioning, and physical conditioning (even if they are less than…scientific…in execution) in addition to technique. They recognize you can’t be victorious without all the components. I think it has something to do with working 25 hours a week at becoming really really good.[/quote]
Couldn’t agree with you more, Aragorn! I posted this text before, so I guess I’m being redundant, but it bears repeating… a lot!
Read this for a no-nonsense conception of real martial arts.
" Mental Strength
By Iain Abernethy
In his book �??Wado-Ryu�?? karate, Hironori Otsuka tells us that there are three kinds of strength �?? Physical Strength, Technical Strength and Mental Strength �?? and if any of those is deficient, it will be �??the downfall of the individual�??. It�??s a common misconception throughout the martial arts that �??technique�?? is the key; if we have good technique then we will be effective in combat.
The fact is that technique is no more or less important than physical fitness or mental conditioning. Many martial artists dislike this idea as it infers that those with poor technique can defeat those with good technique (if they lack the required mental and physical condition). A laborer on a building site (physically conditioned) who regularly gets involved in bar fights (mentally used to combat) could easily defeat the martial artist who concentrates on technique to the exclusion of the other forms of strength.
If we are to be able to effectively defend ourselves then we need to ensure that our training also develops physical condition and mental strength in addition to technique. The key is to ensure that our training is intense enough to encourage growth in all three areas e.g., we drill our techniques with intensity and to the point of exhaustion (stimulates physical strength) and no matter how much we want to quit or ease off, we then drill them some more (stimulates mental strength).
We need at least two sessions per week that take us to our very limits. The key is not duration but intensity. We can train for hours and never break sweat or we can work flat out for around two minutes and be close to throwing up. Real fights are extremely intense and, if our training is to be valid, we also need to train in an intense way. This intensity in training has many benefits besides increased combative effectiveness.
To make progress physically, we need to attempt activities that are currently outside our capabilities. To get stronger, we attempt to lift more weight than we can currently lift. To increase our aerobic and anaerobic capacities, we try to do more than we can currently do in a given time. Through attempting to accomplish that which currently lies beyond our reach, our bodies will adapt, our physical fitness will be advanced and the initial task becomes easier to accomplish. Our minds work in a similar way. If we wish to strengthen ourselves mentally, we also have to attempt tasks that are currently beyond us. This not only applies to our training but to our lives in general. Through our training, we get accustomed to reaching beyond ourselves. We are therefore more likely to reach beyond ourselves in all areas of our lives.
We should be prepared to take on difficult tasks in order to develop ourselves and the quality of our lives. The task needs to be difficult if it is going to develop our capabilities. If the weightlifter does not put enough weight on the bar, he isn�??t struggling and hence he�??s not getting any stronger. Likewise, if our lives are �??plain sailing�?? we are not developing ourselves. If things are too easy, our abilities are not developed and hence our potential for progress becomes limited. We won�??t experience any �??discomfort�?? so long as we remain exactly where we are; but in my opinion that�??s no way to live. We should push our boundaries and not remain tethered to our �??fur-lined rut�??. We should actively court discomfort and the growth that results from that discomfort.
It is through attempting difficult tasks that we develop the ability to accomplish them. The key thing is to ensure that we are consistently trying to �??lift that weight�??. Regardless of what that �??weight�?? may be �?? better health, more money, more rewarding jobs and relationships, etc. �?? the only way we�??ll get it is through attempting to get it. It may be very uncomfortable at first; however, it is that very discomfort that will develop our abilities and ensure that we eventually succeed. For example, a new job certainly won�??t be as easy as the old familiar job, but any difficulty experienced will strengthen and develop our capabilities. As our talents grow, there will come a point where the new job will become �??easy�?? and hence we will have the ability to reach yet further.
To achieve great things we need great abilities, and the only way to develop great abilities is through great struggle. Once we understand that �??resistance�?? is a vital part of the process, we actually start to desire that resistance and the associated struggle.
Our training gets us used to reaching beyond ourselves and helps us to understand the process of resistance and advancement. Our intense combat training (Jutsu) should lead to us applying the lessons learned in our daily lives (Do). We train in a way that takes us beyond our current limits, so that we can expand those limits. In life, we should also constantly reach beyond our current limits so we can develop our capabilities and lead the lives we want to lead. In training and in life we need to seek out discomfort, strive to develop ourselves and ensure that we are constantly moving forward."
I know the death touch, it is measured in thousands of feet per second and uses a scope.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it is only the Americanized Mcdojos that are fraudulent. “I train 2 days a week for 1 hour and I’m a black belt after 11 months” riiiiiight. BUT, if you go to Okinawa, Taiwan, Thailand, Japa, or China, you get something different entirely–people who train 6 days a week for 5 or 6 hours a day in little concrete “dojos” or outside or in the jungle. TKD done in Korea is about as different from TKD done in the States as Godzilla is from your pet iguana.
Yeah, they’re both “martial arts”, but there’s really no comparison. I could say the same thing about various styles of karate, kung fu, aikido, heck even tai chi (although to be fair that’s as much a spiritual meditation as anything). There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.
Besides, there’s this whole American thing about perfect technique alone being able to defeat any foe, no matter how big or strong. You don’t really find that anywhere but the West.
For the most part, arts in the east emphasize mental conditioning, emotional conditioning, and physical conditioning (even if they are less than…scientific…in execution) in addition to technique. They recognize you can’t be victorious without all the components. I think it has something to do with working 25 hours a week at becoming really really good.[/quote]
If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.
Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.
So. My martial art (which is not in your hotlist of ‘genuine’ arts) taught me discipline, respect, focus, a vast range of effective techniques (and a few not so effective ones), strategy, the psychology of violence, use of weapons and a whole lot more besides.
Tell me oh wise master, how is that a scam?
Bushy[/quote]
That’s a scam because you probably still fight like a girl.
(Joking. Couldn’t say because I have no idea what your chosen MA is. I think CL left out quite a few legit ones.)
Death Blow - When someone tries to blow you up, not because of who you are, but because of different reasons all together.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.
Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.[/quote]
Hahahaha, nice vid! Certainly makes a bad case for traditional ma.
But look here, those Aragorn and I talk about are not those Jedi tricks. I won’t try bust your chi in a fight. You can be sure I’ll act just like that mma fighter, only with different techniques.
There’s two categories of serious martials arts practionners (I leave aside those who do it for the sport with their kids and cute little coloured belt that comes with ribbon and a certificate): the hard-ass one and those I call “doctor feel my chi”. Dillman and the kiai master in the vid are good example of the latter.
On the other hand, and I’ve experienced this personally, some try in an underground basement with bricks as resistance, go the to end of their endurance in training, do sick things like rolling an oak bo staff on their tibias to desensitize them when kicking, etc. Our chi training consisted of mental grit and pain resistance.
There’s a world of difference between those two types. Don’t confuse them, although I’ll admit that the hard-ass type is becoming increasingly rare. I myself quit my dojo when my sensei started training more sporty.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zen warrior wrote:
You just stated my main beef with that kind of thing: the guy himself, who’s the supposed grand master of the art,
Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.
Of course, some Krav Magna guy is going to chime in and say he knows stuff that is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. Oy vey.
Just like other scammers like psychics, there will always be “martial arts” schools separating a fool from his money.[/quote]
I am skilled at Ninjitsu. In fact, yesterday, I walked circles around you for five minutes and you never noticed me. I even pissed in your drink without you noticing.
But seriously, if an activity promotes physical and mental fitness, how can anyone call it a scam, regardless of “real world effectiveness”. There may be more efficient means to an end, but if there is any forward progress at all, I don’t think it can be called a scam.
I also noticed that you left wrestling off your narrow list of non-scams. I think it should be listed as a very effective martial art.
DB