Death Touch In Action

Off Topic
21

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zen warrior wrote:
You just stated my main beef with that kind of thing: the guy himself, who’s the supposed grand master of the art,

Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.

Of course, some Krav Magna guy is going to chime in and say he knows stuff that is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. Oy vey.

Just like other scammers like psychics, there will always be “martial arts” schools separating a fool from his money.[/quote]

That is quite possibly one of the most narrow minded statements I have ever heard. Most martial artists? How can you possibly make that generalization from an intelligent perspective.

Your “only X styles are effective” is along the same line of thinking as the way many MA’s thought prior to full contact competitions, or to the way that pure strikers felt about grapplers.

What matters isn’t the name of the art, but that what the art teaches works.

Yes, boxing works, yes BJJ works, but there are plenty of other arts that also work.

Go spar/train with Robert Bussey and tell me that Ninjutsu doesn’t work. Go train with Micheal De Pasquale Jr. and then tell me that traditional Jiu-Jitsu doesn’t work. Or Joel Weinberg in Shotokan, or Cael Sanderson in Wrestling. What about Greco, or Catch as Catch can, or Judo, or Burmese kickboxing, or arnis?

And in regards to your snide remark about Krav Maga being “too deadly” and teaching techniques that are not safe for competition, why do you think that the UFC has over 40 rules? Well, one is because there are techniques/targets that are simply not safe for competition.

Think about it, why can’t you attack the opponent’s eyes? Why can’t you strike to the back of the head or spine? Why no groin attacks? Why no attacks to the throat? Why no small digit locks? Why no headbutts? Why no weapons? Why are you on a padded surface? Why no fishhooking? Why no biting? etc…etc…etc…

Good training,

Sentoguy

22

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Besides, if I remember correctly, most “death touch” moves in the East utilize nerve clusters and very hard, debilitating, piercing strikes at said nerve clusters by fingers trained to take the punishment of repeated striking. They are also regarded as extremely sacred, not commercial. [/quote]

You mean like the Five-Point Palm Exploding Heart technique?

23

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Most martial artists are fraudulent. Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.

I disagree wholeheartedly. I think it is only the Americanized Mcdojos that are fraudulent. “I train 2 days a week for 1 hour and I’m a black belt after 11 months” riiiiiight. BUT, if you go to Okinawa, Taiwan, Thailand, Japa, or China, you get something different entirely–people who train 6 days a week for 5 or 6 hours a day in little concrete “dojos” or outside or in the jungle. TKD done in Korea is about as different from TKD done in the States as Godzilla is from your pet iguana.

Yeah, they’re both “martial arts”, but there’s really no comparison. I could say the same thing about various styles of karate, kung fu, aikido, heck even tai chi (although to be fair that’s as much a spiritual meditation as anything). There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.

Besides, there’s this whole American thing about perfect technique alone being able to defeat any foe, no matter how big or strong. You don’t really find that anywhere but the West.

For the most part, arts in the east emphasize mental conditioning, emotional conditioning, and physical conditioning (even if they are less than…scientific…in execution) in addition to technique. They recognize you can’t be victorious without all the components. I think it has something to do with working 25 hours a week at becoming really really good.

If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.

Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.[/quote]

Jesus that was embarrassing. I felt sorry for the guy. When he got hit the first time it reminded me of that scene in one of the Superman movies. It’s the one after he loses his powers and becomes human, and he gets in a bar fight and he feels human pain for the first time.

24

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Other than boxing (American and Thai) and BJJ, the “martial” arts are a scam.[/quote]

A Judo a Greco-Roman guy will also give you a bad day.

25

Sigh*… Why is it Taekwondo and all other retarded martial arts forms are dominated by fatasses with no social skills? If you want to learn to defend yourself, take up MMA. Doing that “Hyyaaaa” shit all day will do nothing, regardless of how cool Jet Li makes it look on film.

26

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.[/quote]

My high school math teacher had a saying: “practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent.”

You can train all you want, but if the system you are studying is inherently flawed, all you are doing is ingraining bad technique. If you train to strike with your hands down and your chin up, all you’re getting good at his striking with your hands down and your chin up, not winning a fight.

A guy who trains like a powerlifter at 24hr Fatness is going to be better off than a guy who goes to a hardcore gym and brings his Bosu ball with him. Also, a guy who trains like a powerlifter for three hours a week is going to be a metric boatload stronger than a Precore guy who trains five hours a day.

Grinding a skill makes you good at that skill, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that skill is useful.

27

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
But seriously, if an activity promotes physical and mental fitness, how can anyone call it a scam, regardless of “real world effectiveness”.[/quote]

Tennis teaches the same things. But I don’t hear anyone saying, “I play tennis. Therefore, I am street ready.”

I think it’s great that people have fun, productive hobbies. There are worse things to do with one’s time than to break boards, kick the air, and point spar. It’s the delusion that this is effective that is the problem.

28

[quote]Steel Nation wrote (about [/quote][i][u]B-U-S-H-I-D-O[/i][/u][quote]badboy):

Couldn’t say because I have no idea what your chosen MA is.[/quote]

Umm…you’re joking, right?

29

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
But seriously, if an activity promotes physical and mental fitness, how can anyone call it a scam, regardless of “real world effectiveness”.

Tennis teaches the same things. But I don’t hear anyone saying, “I play tennis. Therefore, I am street ready.”

I think it’s great that people have fun, productive hobbies. There are worse things to do with one’s time than to break boards, kick the air, and point spar. It’s the delusion that this is effective that is the problem.

[/quote]
Well, in a fight between you empty-handed and Andy Roddick with a tennis racket, I would put my money on the “street ready” Roddick.

DB

31

[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
There’s nothing fraudulent about training for 25 hours a week. You know what we call people who do that here? UFC fighters, wrestlers, and professional boxers. It’s the difference between a concrete Diablo Barbell dungeon and a 24 Hour Fitness.

My high school math teacher had a saying: “practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent.”

You can train all you want, but if the system you are studying is inherently flawed, all you are doing is ingraining bad technique. If you train to strike with your hands down and your chin up, all you’re getting good at his striking with your hands down and your chin up, not winning a fight.

A guy who trains like a powerlifter at 24hr Fatness is going to be better off than a guy who goes to a hardcore gym and brings his Bosu ball with him. Also, a guy who trains like a powerlifter for three hours a week is going to be a metric boatload stronger than a Precore guy who trains five hours a day.

Grinding a skill makes you good at that skill, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that skill is useful.[/quote]

I’m not going to argue with you about practice. You’re completely correct that if you practice crap then you’ll not get very far.

But your post also works in my favor: A guy who trains like a powerlifter in a 24 hr fatness is analogous to a guy who pours his heart and soul into practicing and UNDERSTANDING his karate’s pros and cons and thinks of new ways to apply the techniques. Or whatever. The point I was making is that it is not so much the art as the artist.

What is it authors here have said dozens and dozens of times? If a guy works his ass off in a sub-par routine he’ll most likely get better results than a guy who half-asses a perfectly periodized and balanced routine. Same thing here. Besides which, many people here are confusing “Kiai masters” and Dillman with traditional martial arts in general.

Come on. That’s an obvious fallacy of generalization if I’ve ever seen one. Dillman and company are to real traditional martial arts as AB-DOER INFOMERCIALS are to REAL WEIGHT TRAINING. In other words, they are largely a result of the marketing necessity to find a new “niche” or angle or “cutting edge” technique to exploit for profit.

general response to thread:

Dillman and company are douches. BUT…

In response to those who are dismissing traditional MA. Muay-thai is a traditional MA, but everybody seems to rave about how effective it is in the “real world”. It’s been around for hundreds of years in some form, if not longer.

Well, there are Taekwondo and karate people who are training the same way as these muay thai guys and competing in bare knuckle competitions. So they don’t get the same respect as muay thai? They have the same methods: they have knees, elbows, leg kicks, groin kicks, arm breaks, trips, etc.

Maybe not a clinch as such in muay thai, although I’m pretty sure they have some form of that too. They do body hardening just like muay thai. Problem is, you don’t get any good schools in the USA. Don’t dismiss the art as a whole just because US schools suck balls. That is my point.

You can see the numerous commonalities between muay thai and so called “fraudulent” MAs if you try. The difference is the attitudes, school, advertising, and the (crappy) teaching.

32

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.

Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.[/quote]

You’re not a moron. You know I’m not a moron. So please don’t treat me like one. You cannot possibly consider a jackass like that as being in the same WORLD as a serious, practicing martial artist who cares.

33

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:
If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.

Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.

Hahahaha, nice vid! Certainly makes a bad case for traditional ma.

But look here, those Aragorn and I talk about are not those Jedi tricks. I won’t try bust your chi in a fight. You can be sure I’ll act just like that mma fighter, only with different techniques.

There’s two categories of serious martials arts practionners (I leave aside those who do it for the sport with their kids and cute little coloured belt that comes with ribbon and a certificate): the hard-ass one and those I call “doctor feel my chi”. Dillman and the kiai master in the vid are good example of the latter.

On the other hand, and I’ve experienced this personally, some try in an underground basement with bricks as resistance, go the to end of their endurance in training, do sick things like rolling an oak bo staff on their tibias to desensitize them when kicking, etc. Our chi training consisted of mental grit and pain resistance.

There’s a world of difference between those two types. Don’t confuse them, although I’ll admit that the hard-ass type is becoming increasingly rare. I myself quit my dojo when my sensei started training more sporty.

[/quote]

Well put sir. That’s chi training right there. But it’s worth noting that the word chi/ki is used to mean many things, from spiritual qualities to meditations to shorthand for “the area of focus”. It’s more philosophical.

It’s the same argument people get in about “literal” vs. metaphorical interpretations of Biblical teachings. Yes, there are at least two types of martial artists–same thing as the “dying breed” of hardcore weightlifters we’ve been hearing about lately.

34

[quote]dragonmamma wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Besides, if I remember correctly, most “death touch” moves in the East utilize nerve clusters and very hard, debilitating, piercing strikes at said nerve clusters by fingers trained to take the punishment of repeated striking. They are also regarded as extremely sacred, not commercial.

You mean like the Five-Point Palm Exploding Heart technique?
[/quote]

Hahaha! Good call :). But no, I don’t. I’m talking about nerve strikes made with fingers conditioned to striking wood posts, trees, or stones. Nothing like this “I look at you from across the room and you die” nonsense.

36

[quote]Mr. Clean & Jerk wrote:
Steel Nation wrote (about [i][u]B-U-S-H-I-D-O[/i][/u]badboy):

Couldn’t say because I have no idea what your chosen MA is.

Umm…you’re joking, right?[/quote]

Nope, I have no idea what bushido is.

37

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:

If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.

Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.

You’re not a moron. You know I’m not a moron. So please don’t treat me like one. You cannot possibly consider a jackass like that as being in the same WORLD as a serious, practicing martial artist who cares.[/quote]

I’m not trying to treat you like a moron. I was just trying to point out that a large amount of training put into a given martial art won’t necessarily make you a good fighter unless it is a technically sound martial art. Apparently, Kiai (what the hell is that?) is not a sound martial art.

38

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:

If you’re spending 25+ hours a week practicing complete bullshit, then it’s not going to matter either way.

Dance around like a fairie all you want. A punch in the head is the perfect prescription for traditional martial artists’ delusions of grandeur.

You’re not a moron. You know I’m not a moron. So please don’t treat me like one. You cannot possibly consider a jackass like that as being in the same WORLD as a serious, practicing martial artist who cares.

I’m not trying to treat you like a moron. I was just trying to point out that a large amount of training put into a given martial art won’t necessarily make you a good fighter unless it is a technically sound martial art. Apparently, Kiai (what the hell is that?) is not a sound martial art.[/quote]

Sorry buddy. I got a little snarky there. It was a long day. I agree with you, I just think that “technically sound” martial arts include a lot of the ones that have bad reps in the US, and I was trying to point out that just because US dojos are BS, that doesn’t mean that the art itself is BS.

Also, I was trying to point out that someone who trains their heart out and preps mentally is likely to be more effective than someone who trains at an “effective” MA half assed two days a week. (re: an earlier post of mine). Also, I was trying to point out that in the East they have an entirely different conception about what “training hard” means, and as a result, black belts over there are earned and (deservedly) much more respected.

Kiai literally means “concentrated spirit”. Ki = mind, will, focus, etc, and ai = to unite. United spirit, or more appropriately to the MAs, “fighting spirit”. Kiai is not an actual art. Kiai is also the term for the vocal shout accompanying a strike in Japanese martial arts. That’s it.

39

[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Sigh*… Why is it Taekwondo and all other retarded martial arts forms are dominated by fatasses with no social skills? If you want to learn to defend yourself, take up MMA. Doing that “Hyyaaaa” shit all day will do nothing, regardless of how cool Jet Li makes it look on film.[/quote]

Because now days everything in america is dominated by fat asses with poor social skills.

MMA is beneficial, but if you really want to learn to protect yourself, figure out how to flip a knife from your pocket open very quickly or how to gouge eyes out effortlessly.

40

[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Sigh*… Why is it Taekwondo and all other retarded martial arts forms are dominated by fatasses with no social skills? If you want to learn to defend yourself, take up MMA. Doing that “Hyyaaaa” shit all day will do nothing, regardless of how cool Jet Li makes it look on film.

Because now days everything in america is dominated by fat asses with poor social skills.

MMA is beneficial, but if you really want to learn to protect yourself, figure out how to flip a knife from your pocket open very quickly or how to gouge eyes out effortlessly. [/quote]

LOL! YES!

And about the “street ready” Andy Roddick, I’d kick his ass, as I’m sure most men on this board would too. Come on, Andy freaking Roddick? He’s too pretty to know how to fight!