I’m talking about guys who lift somewhat seriously. The general population is weak, as is the average gym member, but guys who aim a little higher and lift for a few years and get stronger without getting much heavier should find this easier than a 600 pound deadlift.
And the guys who get way stronger while gaining a lot of mass would probably find the 600 pound easier.
It all depends on what you weigh. And those who weigh enough to deadlift 600 pounds are in general more impressive than the guys who are light enough to do the chins. I’m not saying the chins are incredibly easy, but a 600 pound deadlift is significantly harder, IMHO.[/quote]
Agreed, probably wasn’t the best comparison on my part as the grass will always be greener on this one. Midgets will find the 600 pull more impressive and the average 280lb powerlifter will find the pull ups bloody impressive too
10 Pull Ups is not the same for a 135lbs guy and a 225 lbs guy.
Unless you’re using straps Grip Strength plays a HUUGGEEE roll in Pull Ups, if you don’t believe it try different thickness for the bar. You don’t notice but a slight fatigue will change how your biceps and back have to work to pull you up.
Working up to a one rep MAX LIFT is not all that beneficial. No I’m not saying don’t max out occasionally but their are people that can 10 rep max 495 and max out at 600, while people who can only do 4 reps with 495 but can still do 600. In all the cases I’ve seen the 10 rep 495 group was bigger more muscular and stronger overrall.
It’s going to take longer than a month to build up either one so just do routines. One routine have them on the same day the next don’t, then Pull ups before, pull ups after, Pull Ups in between. Working in hypertrophy range and a good diet you will go up in both.
If you haven’t been increasing try curling more all types.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
10 Pull Ups is not the same for a 135lbs guy and a 225 lbs guy.
Unless you’re using straps Grip Strength plays a HUUGGEEE roll in Pull Ups, if you don’t believe it try different thickness for the bar. You don’t notice but a slight fatigue will change how your biceps and back have to work to pull you up.
Working up to a one rep MAX LIFT is not all that beneficial. No I’m not saying don’t max out occasionally but their are people that can 10 rep max 495 and max out at 600, while people who can only do 4 reps with 495 but can still do 600. In all the cases I’ve seen the 10 rep 495 group was bigger more muscular and stronger overrall.
It’s going to take longer than a month to build up either one so just do routines. One routine have them on the same day the next don’t, then Pull ups before, pull ups after, Pull Ups in between. Working in hypertrophy range and a good diet you will go up in both.
If you haven’t been increasing try curling more all types.
[/quote]
Not sure how the different bar sizes proves that pull ups are different for guys of different sizes?
Might just take up your advice w.r.t. the routines
Haven’t curled in almost 6 months now. My lack of delts made my arms look fat, so stopped training bi’s and focused on delts and tri’s. Added pull ups and rows to my deadlifts and have made good progress on my arms and back. Deadlift has stalled somewhat though
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Are you sure you have long arms? Not banging on your deadlift, but it’s not typical of a long arm guy. You can do 11 chins with 122% of your body weight, again not typical.
I’m the opposite of you. Deads are really easy for me, but true chins are very hard for me. I think I may have eeked out 8 chins with a 45 last time I went that heavy. At the same time I was doing deads of 455X2.
FTR I’m a thin and lanky 6’1 190.[/quote]
Ah, I didn’t understand that this was directed at me, sorry for not responding earlier.
Bang on my deadlift. My progress on it sucks. When I first started training, I got it up to 330 in less than ten workouts. Not much happened during the years after that. I trained in a stupid way, working up to singles every freaking training session, most of the time failing lifts and plateauing for months at a time. Now, as you might see, I lift outdoors (currently in horrible weather) on uneven ground and wearing shoes, and since I have a hard time getting flexible enough to get into a strong and safe position unless I go barefoot and since gripping the bar hurts like hell when it’s -4 degrees Fahrenheit etc. I suck at it. Will probably join a real gym next year, on campus.
Everything else usually progresses nicely. I’d say I have pretty long arms, longer than those of my 4 inches taller friend and my wingspan is quite a few inches more than my height. Long arms, bad powerlifter, enthustiastic gymrat.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
If you want to look like that, then gain some fricken weight. Stop worrying about the minute details so much and focus on lifting heavy, eating a ton, and putting size on. He didn’t get that big by putting his deadlifts first or his pull-ups first, he got that big because he ate a ton (not almonds and apples tweet tweet) and he had the appropriate intensity levels in his training sessions.[/quote]
You are quickly turning into one of my favourite posters dude, I hear you loud and clear. I’m kinda watching what I’m eatin right now (its summer in this part of the world), and I’m definiely busting my ass in the gym. Its just that I’m trying to not waste time and energy on things that could be holding me back from reaching my potential, that and the fact that I have OCD when it comes to training[/quote]
You’ll drive yourself crazy if you are too OCD. Be OCD about 2 things:
Lifting big shit
Eating lots of food
The rest will sort itself out. If you stick to those two things with an obsessive manner, you’ll do well. When it comes to lifting, sometimes the simplest things work. Look at some of the more notable programs: 5x5, 5/3/1, Starting Strength. They’re all ridiculously simple but have had multitudes of success.
You’ll drive yourself crazy if you are too OCD. Be OCD about 2 things:
Lifting big shit
Eating lots of food
The rest will sort itself out. If you stick to those two things with an obsessive manner, you’ll do well. When it comes to lifting, sometimes the simplest things work. Look at some of the more notable programs: 5x5, 5/3/1, Starting Strength. They’re all ridiculously simple but have had multitudes of success.[/quote]
True, I just dont have it in me to let myself go like some of the other guys on the forum. Earlier in the year, bulked up to about 19% BF, that was as high as I was comfortable with. Thinking of having such 3 month dirty bulk cycles twice a year followed by keto cutting cylces
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Um how about overall back exercises, like bb rows and variations, t-bar rows, pendlay rows, etc? This is a pretty pointless debate. [/quote]
Thought the deadlift and pull ups were the upper body squats, so wanted to know which one is better at overall back thickness. Its only pointless if noone learns anything from it, I’ve learnt some stuff. Thanks for your contribution
I would find the 600 dead more impressive. but i can also do the 10 pullups so i would say i am pretty biased. for bb the pullups are much more effective because that is what is going to help your v-taper much more than a dead. for deads i used to do a 315 rep max at the end of my back once a month or so looking for 15 - 20 and really saw alot more growth than when sticking with the low reps. that may have been more of a hormonal response but it has to been done at the end because if you do it right you will be sick afterwards. good looking back btw deadgoat.
on a side note i had goat liver with my eggs for breakfast this morning.
[quote]kirchman wrote:
I would find the 600 dead more impressive. but i can also do the 10 pullups so i would say i am pretty biased. for bb the pullups are much more effective because that is what is going to help your v-taper much more than a dead. for deads i used to do a 315 rep max at the end of my back once a month or so looking for 15 - 20 and really saw alot more growth than when sticking with the low reps. that may have been more of a hormonal response but it has to been done at the end because if you do it right you will be sick afterwards. good looking back btw deadgoat.
on a side note i had goat liver with my eggs for breakfast this morning. [/quote]
315 for 15-20? Damn. I did 275 for 12 this week and felt like that was pretty tough. Man. Guess I gotta up my standards.
[quote]kirchman wrote:
I would find the 600 dead more impressive. but i can also do the 10 pullups so i would say i am pretty biased. for bb the pullups are much more effective because that is what is going to help your v-taper much more than a dead. for deads i used to do a 315 rep max at the end of my back once a month or so looking for 15 - 20 and really saw alot more growth than when sticking with the low reps. that may have been more of a hormonal response but it has to been done at the end because if you do it right you will be sick afterwards. good looking back btw deadgoat.
on a side note i had goat liver with my eggs for breakfast this morning. [/quote]
Thanks mate, do you mean that you did 15-20 sets each consisting of 1 rep? How on earth do you find the energy for that?
[quote]kirchman wrote:
I would find the 600 dead more impressive. but i can also do the 10 pullups so i would say i am pretty biased. for bb the pullups are much more effective because that is what is going to help your v-taper much more than a dead. for deads i used to do a 315 rep max at the end of my back once a month or so looking for 15 - 20 and really saw alot more growth than when sticking with the low reps. that may have been more of a hormonal response but it has to been done at the end because if you do it right you will be sick afterwards. good looking back btw deadgoat.
on a side note i had goat liver with my eggs for breakfast this morning. [/quote]
Thanks mate, do you mean that you did 15-20 sets each consisting of 1 rep? How on earth do you find the energy for that?[/quote]
Pretty sure he means one set consisting of 15-20 reps. Look at his back picture. lol.
First off, 10 pull-ups with 45lbs attached is not what I would consider an impressive lift. If we wanted to compare it to a 600 dead, 10 with 100lbs attached would be better.
For bodybuilding purposes, I think the pull-up is a slightly more valuable tool than the deadlift. Lat development and that width that it adds to your torso is essential for BB’ing, and pull-ups help to build your traps, rear delts, and rhomboids as well. The deadlift lacks that width development factor.
With all that being said, a smart man would do both for optimal development.
[quote]deadgoat wrote:
Hey guys just wanted to know from the forum which is rated higher for overall back development.
Which would you place 1st in your back workout (in terms of order of performing exercise)? Reason I ask is because deadlifts are very taxing, for this reason do you place them 1st or last?
And what would you guys find more impressive a 600lb deadlift or 10 strict pull ups with a 45lb plate between the legs? (I’m nowhere near either, to avoid confusion)[/quote]
600 lb Deadlift would be way more Impressive then 10 reps with a 45 lb plate, For weighted Pull-ups I’ve done 145 lbs 5 times, and 404lbs total; 200% of my bodyweight once.
Although I can’t do 600 lb DL, 405 is my max.
For greater back development I would say both, they do seprate things one can’t replace the other. In which order I do DL on Legs day.
You’ll drive yourself crazy if you are too OCD. Be OCD about 2 things:
Lifting big shit
Eating lots of food
The rest will sort itself out. If you stick to those two things with an obsessive manner, you’ll do well. When it comes to lifting, sometimes the simplest things work. Look at some of the more notable programs: 5x5, 5/3/1, Starting Strength. They’re all ridiculously simple but have had multitudes of success.[/quote]
True, I just dont have it in me to let myself go like some of the other guys on the forum. Earlier in the year, bulked up to about 19% BF, that was as high as I was comfortable with. Thinking of having such 3 month dirty bulk cycles twice a year followed by keto cutting cylces
[/quote]
Who says you have to? Ultimately that’s a matter of nutrition more then training. Eat enough to grow, do enough prowler sprints to stay leaner.