I also coached two youth league teams, but I’m sure I didn’t that either.
In San Diego.
I agree to disagree.
I accept your ideas and I didn’t imply you were wrong.
That being said don’t completely disregard my ideas as well.
My original question was, In a easier phrase, are there any better combination of exercises than the standing barbell military press and the deadlift for improved athletic performance and postural improvements? I know that the squat and bench press are the best two exercises for hypertrophy(deadlift could also be included in this combination as well), because the fact that you can overload your muscles; however, that’s not my question either.
Two exercises that compliment each other the most for full body stimulus .
With improved performance.
Thank you for introducing me to Dan John, Lorez.
I like his concept on minimalist training.
Firstly, there are a few buttons on the posts. The ones you should probably use are “Reply” and “Edit”. That way it’s clear who you’re replying to and clear when you’re just adding to an existing post.
[quote]a2_z wrote:
My original question was, In a easier phrase, are there any better combination of exercises than the standing barbell military press and the deadlift for improved athletic performance and postural improvements?
[…]
Two exercises that compliment each other the most for full body stimulus .
[/quote]
Secondly, the word is “complement”, not “compliment”.
Thirdly, the exercises themselves.
I actually think the deadlift can be problematic when it comes to postural improvements if performed in a way that doesn’t place an emphasis on the mid and lower trapezius to stabilize the scapulae. From a postural standpoint, I think snatch-grip deadlifts are a better alternative because of the mandatory increased upper back activation. Without good engagement of the mid-back to produce downward rotation, recession and retraction of the scapula, it can lead to a reduction of subacromial space, which in turn increases the likelihood of impingment syndrome.
Posturally, the standing overhead press can also be problematic. Bad shoulder mobility and/or bad thoracic mobility can lead to compensations where you excessively arch the lumbar spine. This can be a problem in and of itself, but the other side effect is that the lift turns into a standing high-incline press rather than an overhead press. With good shoulder mobility and thoracic extension, an overhead press does a good job engaging all three delt heads as well as the mid and upper traps and levator scapula. This keeps things in balance… but that’s assuming everything else is done right.
I find that the Z Press (seated on the ground, no back support, legs straight) is a better movement from a postural standpoint. You can’t get away with the lumbar arch that you can in a standing overhead press, which forces your shoulders and upper back to actually do the work, rather than the clavicular head of your pecs (upper chest). From a stabilization standpoint, it also strongly engages the subscapularis and serratus anterior, both of which are weak in most people and inhibited from a lifetime of bad posture and/or bench pressing. All of these combine to provide a much better glenohumeral rhythm and reduce the likelihood of shoulder impingement, whether that be rotator cuff tendons or biceps tendons. They also force core strengthening and stabilization and thoracic extension, while working on mobility in a weighted movement.
Additional lifts that are good for posture are overhead shrugs, face pulls, and weighted pullaparts.
But that’s just talking about the postural side of things.
A far as athletic performance, that’s always going to be sport-specific. Strength development is useful, to a point; just as power development is, to a point. I would suggest that cleans, high pulls, box jumps, jump squats, and properly performed snatches would be good options to consider. Possibly also speed work with rack or mat pulls (compensatory acceleration or with accommodating resistance).
I’ve never trained for basketball or studied how people train for basketball, so this is speculation at best.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Firstly, there are a few buttons on the posts. The ones you should probably use are “Reply” and “Edit”. That way it’s clear who you’re replying to and clear when you’re just adding to an existing post.
[quote]a2_z wrote:
My original question was, In a easier phrase, are there any better combination of exercises than the standing barbell military press and the deadlift for improved athletic performance and postural improvements?
[…]
Two exercises that compliment each other the most for full body stimulus .
[/quote]
Secondly, the word is “complement”, not “compliment”.
Thirdly, the exercises themselves.
I actually think the deadlift can be problematic when it comes to postural improvements if performed in a way that doesn’t place an emphasis on the mid and lower trapezius to stabilize the scapulae. From a postural standpoint, I think snatch-grip deadlifts are a better alternative because of the mandatory increased upper back activation. Without good engagement of the mid-back to produce downward rotation, recession and retraction of the scapula, it can lead to a reduction of subacromial space, which in turn increases the likelihood of impingment syndrome.
Posturally, the standing overhead press can also be problematic. Bad shoulder mobility and/or bad thoracic mobility can lead to compensations where you excessively arch the lumbar spine. This can be a problem in and of itself, but the other side effect is that the lift turns into a standing high-incline press rather than an overhead press. With good shoulder mobility and thoracic extension, an overhead press does a good job engaging all three delt heads as well as the mid and upper traps and levator scapula. This keeps things in balance… but that’s assuming everything else is done right.
I find that the Z Press (seated on the ground, no back support, legs straight) is a better movement from a postural standpoint. You can’t get away with the lumbar arch that you can in a standing overhead press, which forces your shoulders and upper back to actually do the work, rather than the clavicular head of your pecs (upper chest). From a stabilization standpoint, it also strongly engages the subscapularis and serratus anterior, both of which are weak in most people and inhibited from a lifetime of bad posture and/or bench pressing. All of these combine to provide a much better glenohumeral rhythm and reduce the likelihood of shoulder impingement, whether that be rotator cuff tendons or biceps tendons. They also force core strengthening and stabilization and thoracic extension, while working on mobility in a weighted movement.
Additional lifts that are good for posture are overhead shrugs, face pulls, and weighted pullaparts.
But that’s just talking about the postural side of things.
A far as athletic performance, that’s always going to be sport-specific. Strength development is useful, to a point; just as power development is, to a point. I would suggest that cleans, high pulls, box jumps, jump squats, and properly performed snatches would be good options to consider. Possibly also speed work with rack or mat pulls (compensatory acceleration or with accommodating resistance).
I’ve never trained for basketball or studied how people train for basketball, so this is speculation at best.[/quote]
This is what I like, thank you. I find intelligent replies most useful.
I have to research terminology which leads me to different concepts, ideas, and exercise variations.
I’ve also been fascinated with strength standards.
Can you answer this for me? My goal is to eventually have a double body weight deadlift and from what I’ve read a body weight bench press is also an expected standard; however, I’ve realized that I have anterior deltoid pain if I repeatedly lower the bar to my chest. I’ve heard from many bench pressers that you should only lower until parallel; however this idea contradicts my belief on below parallel squats. What are your thoughts on the depth of pressing, because I never have any pain with the military press and I use full range of motion for every repetition.
[quote]a2_z wrote:
Can you answer this for me? My goal is to eventually have a double body weight deadlift and from what I’ve read a body weight bench press is also an expected standard; however, I’ve realized that I have anterior deltoid pain if I repeatedly lower the bar to my chest. I’ve heard from many bench pressers that you should only lower until parallel; however this idea contradicts my belief on below parallel squats. What are your thoughts on the depth of pressing, because I never have any pain with the military press and I use full range of motion for every repetition.[/quote]
I’m not LoRez but if you’re having pain from benching, there’s a good chance you’re doing it wrong. Posting a video here would be very helpful. How long have you been training for?
[quote]a2_z wrote:
I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well.
[/quote]
I’m so glad you started this thread so that others may have the chance to express their ideas!
But seriously, your arrogance is irritating.
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well.
[/quote]
I’m so glad you started this thread so that others may have the chance to express their ideas!
But seriously, your arrogance is irritating.[/quote]
X2
[quote]a2_z wrote:
Apparently you haven’t searched far enough, possibly if you look into my Instagram you’ll also see my players comments [/quote]
If you didn’t set your Instagram page to private, we could’ve. Did have a quick look through both of your Facebook pages though. This pic from last year certainly screams “qualified, knowledgable, and experienced head coach.”
So you never played high school ball and are going to walk-onto the college team? And with zero on-court experience, a team let you be head coach last year? Sounds like some strange teams with unusual standards, but good for you.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well. [/quote]
I’m so glad you started this thread so that others may have the chance to express their ideas!
But seriously, your arrogance is irritating.[/quote]
X2[/quote]
x3. I can tolerate/overlook arrogance sometimes, but unfounded arrogance is what kills me. I think it’s a generational thing.
[quote]a2_z wrote:
This is what I like, thank you. I find intelligent replies most useful.
I have to research terminology which leads me to different concepts, ideas, and exercise variations.[/quote]
Hopefully you got something out of that. If you’re actually as fascinated and interested in this stuff as you sound, you might as well research the stuff that’s based in anatomy and physiology. I was trying to give you the terms, concepts and my reasoning, so that you could branch off of that and make up your own mind.
I also think you underestimate the quality of the replies you got from the other posters. Most know more than me and have more experience than me.
I suggest going back, rereading what they had to say, and trying to understand why they said that. Most everyone is actually willing to help you if you’re actually willing to learn from them.
I’m with TrevorLPT in that you’re doing something wrong form-wise.
More than likely you need to do a better job keeping your upper back tight, and need to focus on tucking your elbows more in the bottom range of motion.
For as unscientific as it sounds, it’s probably going to be a matter of just trying different things form-wise to see what works for you. Everyone’s anatomy is slightly different; what works for one person doesn’t always work for the next.
OP’s assumptions are staggering.
What I have learned from this thread? Never piss off Chris C.
Also, this is a classic example of regurgitation. You read something and don’t apply it.
Like your 20 rep squat question. When I did it in the early '90, it was using the weight from your 12 rep. Nothing to do with personal weight.
You received a lot of good answers (as noted above), but you seem to have a “yeah but” attitude. Not a “I see what you are saying”.
Good luck.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
Apparently you haven’t searched far enough, possibly if you look into my Instagram you’ll also see my players comments [/quote]
If you didn’t set your Instagram page to private, we could’ve. Did have a quick look through both of your Facebook pages though. This pic from last year certainly screams “qualified, knowledgable, and experienced head coach.”
So you never played high school ball and are going to walk-onto the college team? And with zero on-court experience, a team let you be head coach last year? Sounds like some strange teams with unusual standards, but good for you.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well. [/quote]
I’m so glad you started this thread so that others may have the chance to express their ideas!
But seriously, your arrogance is irritating.[/quote]
X2[/quote]
x3. I can tolerate/overlook arrogance sometimes, but unfounded arrogance is what kills me. I think it’s a generational thing.[/quote]
Haha, I’m glad you posted this. I almost posted one, but didn’t want to scare him into moving a 7th time, especially with his recent ‘success’.
I also, looked up his (both) high school team stats and found the coach’s name, he wasn’t listed.
Alex, you seem a like a good kid, who wants to learn, which is great. However, don’t get sucked into one way of training/thinking. Especially trying to limit yourself to 2 movements. To your point, ‘if I had to choose two exercises, what would they be?’ is a question I would ask my buddies when we are drinking. NOT something I would limit myself to, for many obvious reasons, which have been stated already.
As an athlete myself, I played 4 sports in high school and one in college and very rarely did we focus on conventional lifts. All of our ‘team’ training was primarily explosive movements, resisted/assisted jumps, squats, jump squats, vertical/lateral med ball throws, things that would directly correlate to our sport.
It’s interesting, to me, that you don’t prioritize squatting in any form. In this thread or your new one, you don’t include it. That seems like it would be an important lift for you. My vertical jump, at its best was 29". At that time, I had a very good squat (for being 16) and had spent 6 months training for speed/explosiveness with a guy by the name of Matt James (Nike SPARQ Trainer). NOTE: we did do SLDL’s and OHP a couple times a month, but it wasn’t our focus. He definitely knew his stuff as a lot of top athletes frequently visited our training center (Asafa Powell, Brian Grant)
Is only doing deadlifts and overhead presses what you call factoring in CNS-fatigue? I have alot to learn apparently.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
Apparently you haven’t searched far enough, possibly if you look into my Instagram you’ll also see my players comments [/quote]
If you didn’t set your Instagram page to private, we could’ve. Did have a quick look through both of your Facebook pages though. This pic from last year certainly screams “qualified, knowledgable, and experienced head coach.”
So you never played high school ball and are going to walk-onto the college team? And with zero on-court experience, a team let you be head coach last year? Sounds like some strange teams with unusual standards, but good for you.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]a2_z wrote:
I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well. [/quote]
I’m so glad you started this thread so that others may have the chance to express their ideas!
But seriously, your arrogance is irritating.[/quote]
X2[/quote]
x3. I can tolerate/overlook arrogance sometimes, but unfounded arrogance is what kills me. I think it’s a generational thing.[/quote]
this post made my day. I love me some Chris Colucci
[quote]JFG wrote:
What I have learned from this thread? Never piss off Chris C.
[/quote]
Chris C? Does he even lift?
I’m joking! I’m sorry Chris! I’M SORRY!!!
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]JFG wrote:
What I have learned from this thread? Never piss off Chris C.[/quote]
Chris C? Does he even lift?
I’m joking! I’m sorry Chris! I’M SORRY!!![/quote]
… … …
I take back what I said the other day. My dog is way cooler than your cat.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]JFG wrote:
What I have learned from this thread? Never piss off Chris C.[/quote]
Chris C? Does he even lift?
I’m joking! I’m sorry Chris! I’M SORRY!!![/quote]
… … …
I take back what I said the other day. My dog is way cooler than your cat.[/quote]
Hissssss…