I agree. You (OP) pulled 405 the other day, try at least 315.
Went to the gym today. Pulled singles, alternating between conventional and sumo. I didn’t want to risk trying 405 conventional given my form, and especially since I don’t own a belt. When I pulled it with sumo it felt unbelievably easy. Bar speed was quick and the weight exploded off the floor. For the record, I’d never actually locked out 405 before so this was actually a pr. I was pretty psyched up after that and honestly I thought I could add another 50lbs to that lift given how fast it was.
Loaded the weight up to 455 and broke the bar about an inch off the floor. Looked pretty foolish but I honestly thought I could’ve hit that lift. Maybe due to the fatigue from the earlier lift, I’m not quite sure. Adding the additional 50lbs felt like slapping another 100 onto the bar. I’m also pretty beat up from exams all week so when I’m fresh I’d like to give 425 a proper go next week. No vids this time sorry guys. Being recorded definitely throws me out of my groove but I’ll try to get vids next week.
buy a belt
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Yeah, buy a belt. Used properly, you’ll lift more with better form.
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No vids but just wanted to update. Sumo has been going great so far. Last week I hit 415, and just now I hit 425 and it felt easier than the 415 last week. I’ve taken a break from the 5x5 rep scheme and switched to building up to heavier singles. My progression today went something like:
5x135
5x185
5x225
3x275
1x315
1x375
1x425
I tried to pull 445 immediately after the 425. Got it up to just below my knees but I could feel the bar getting out in front of me so I let it go. Next week I’m going to try 435.
One thing I’ve adjusted in the madcow routine that I’m doing is I’ve switched out pendlay rows for bent rows, and as expected, I can’t row quite as much for these. After sumo I usually do 4x5 RDLs just to make sure I’m working the hamstrings and spinal erectors enough. I’m sure the bent rows will also help with that. I still need a belt but I think I’ll wait a bit until I buy it. At the moment I feel that my back holds up much better on sumo vs conventional.
I had the same problem as you. It turned out that it was a combination of three things:
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Weak hamstrings. When the hams are weak, the body does not allow them to stretch and they end up pulling the butt under which rounds the back. The solution is Ham work till the cows come home. Deep good mornings for high reps, band good mornings, leg curls, single leg curls, GHR if you have access, 45 degree back raise.
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You might have retroverted hip anatomy. If that’s the case the hips lock up when you bend over. The way I solved it was to place my feet at hip width and turn my feet out 15 degrees. Now in the bottom, my body sinks in between my thighs and my back stays flat.
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Just before you pull, stick your chest out. This will put the weight on your heels and will help to prevent rounding. This will only work once 1 and 2 above are fully implemented.
Good luck
It’s good that you are seeing progress, it looks like sumo is definitely for you. But don’t get caught up in just doing heavy singles every week, you still need some volume to make continued progress. It looks like you are peaking, but I don’t recall hearing anything about a meet. You can keep going with the singles, just try to avoid actually going to an all-out max and definitely don’t fail reps. After working up to your top single you can do some work with 85-90% of the single weight. Especially since you don’t have a lot of experience, you should stick with lower reps to avoid technique breakdown. Something like 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps sounds about right, another option is to do multiple singles (like 8-15 singles) with the same weight and rest 1-2 minutes between sets. It is a good way to practice setup and there is less chance of technical breakdown, but the tradeoff is that it isn’t effective for hypertrophy (are you trying to add mass?) and if your grip isn’t particularly strong then singles won’t improve it.
Thanks jbackos, I do suspect it’s a hamstring issue or a leverage issue. I’ve been gradually strengthening the hamstrings through RDLs and I might add in ghrs in the future. I still like to do a couple of reps of conventional at lighter weights just to see if my form is improving, and it appears to get slightly better. I’m sticking to sumo for now though
Thanks Chris, you’re right I don’t have a meet and I don’t plan on attending one in the near future. Maxing out every week certainly seems foolish to carry on for an extended period of time. That and the fact that I’d probably stall fairly quickly. However at this point I’m able to make 10lb jumps every week with some room to spare. I’d like to keep doing this until I stall 2 weeks in a row, then jump back into a higher volume routine and build up from there.
Regarding adding mass, my lower body is pretty developed in relation to my upper body, so adding mass to my lower body isn’t a priority.
What is your weight and height?
Are only working up to a single or are you doing some volume work as well? There is no reason not to do any volume work, as long as you don’t do so much that you can’t recover. You could try doing a few singles with a lighter weight after your top set, it will definitely help you improve your technique.
I’m about 5’10" and 190lbs at the moment. Im currently working up to a heavy single, just adding 10lbs each week. After I do my sumo pulls I do RDLs for 4 sets of 5 to try and make up for what I’m missing due to not pulling conventional. Would that help enough with the volume?
At 5’10 and 190 you’re not small, so I can understand if hypertrophy is not your focus for now.
What does the rest of your program look like? I assume you are squatting too (I can’t remember if you posted a squat video) so how is that going? Doing RDLs is definitely a good idea, either after squatting or after deadlifting. I just think that some lighter volume would help improve your technique, whether you want to do that after squatting or right after deadlifting doesn’t really make a huge difference and is up to you. Generally speaking, frequency for most people should be something like squat 2+ times/week, bench 2+, and deadlift 1-2. Improving your squat should also help bring your deadlift up.
I’m currently doing madcow 5x5 intermediate which entails squating, benching and rowing twice a week while deadlifting once a week. I’m currently deloading my squat and bench (305x5 and 225x5 respectively) mainly because it’s exam period and I’m going to be pretty fatigued in general. I definitely agree that I will have to start adding in volume for sumos. It’s only a matter of time that I stall. I might add some lighter volume on Fridays( which is my heavy triples day). In general Fridays aren’t quite as taxing so I could probably fit in a couple of light sets for technique.
Fwiw I’d like to get up to at least 205lbs bw in the future but I’d like to gain a decent amount of strength by the time that happens.
There’s no rush to gain weight, gaining too much too fast means you will get fat. Just focus on strength and eat enough to fuel your training, if you don’t gain muscle automatically then you can do a hypertrophy phase or add more high rep work in the future.
Anyway, I get what you are saying. After exams you could try pushing the volume back up. As for DL technique work, you could try something like 80% of your top single x8 singles. If you have excellent technique then you could theoretically make good progress just by working up to a heavy single (or triple, or set of 5…) once a week but in your case you definitely need the practice. And don’t take this as me “talking down” to you or something, I’m doing the same thing. At the moment I have deadlift (top set for reps plus backoff singles) and RDL on one day and a lighter squat workout followed by double paused deadlifts (pause just off the floor and under the knees) for technique work. I have figured that my technique is my biggest weakness with the deadlift, improving my technique is the main thing I need to do to get my pull over 600.
Thanks Chris, I never took it that way. You’ve given nothing but excellent advice. I absolutely intend to crank up the volume once exams end. It was at a point a couple weeks ago where I really had to psych myself up for a good 5+ minutes to finish my working sets for squats. I just can’t see myself being able to do that right now. For whatever reason, maxing out on the sumo deadlift is wayy less taxing doesn’t leave me destroyed the rest of the day. I’m sure my technique needs work so I’ll try to get a vid of one of the heavier singles I do next week. 600 deadlift? Yikes. Whats your height and weight if you don’t mind me asking?
I’m 5’9 and I weigh around 232-234, I’m trying to slowly lose maybe 5lbs. of fat and gain 5lbs. of muscle. And no, I don’t take steroids like some people would like to assume. But anything in the 600’s isn’t even really impressive by powerlifting standards, look at Krzysztof Wierzbicki pulling mid-800s and 900 in training at the same weight. On a stiff bar. He pulled over 900 at a meet in Poland but couldn’t lock it out. I think I have more potential in squat and bench, my arms are kind of short, which is not great for deadlifting but makes bench easier (370 bench and looks like it’s finally moving up) and I have no excuse not to be good at squatting.
Wow strong stats good stuff. I definitely don’t think 230-240 at 5’9" screams steroids. Tbh being a similar height, I could imagine gaining pretty quickly up to about 215(plenty of fat gain in there), and I’m barely 3 months into any serious training. Dont get me wrong, 230-240 at 5’9" is damn impressive, but I could see how a few years of good training and diet would get you there. I’m not sure why anyone would accuse you of being on steroids unless you were crazy lean. Do you have a training log?
Some people think that anyone over 200lbs. and non-obese must be on something. Some bodybuilding midget on this forum was trying to tell me that Mike Israetel can’t be natural because he’s over the limit for drug-free muscle mass or some crap like that. Israetel has been training steadily for something like 15 or 20 years. I haven’t personally tested his blood and urine, but I see no reason to call him out for drug use.
No, I don’t have a training log online. I just record everything in a notebook. I’m not doing anything that impressive that needs to be shown to the public, maybe one day.
I had an exam this morning and am going on about 4 hours of sleep so I felt pretty drained today. I did manage to get 435 with a significant amount of strain. The lockout took at least a full 2 seconds, but it’s a new PR for the the 4th week in a row so I’m pretty happy.
I finally managed to get another vid up. The weight is 315lbs. It’s pretty difficult to see, but at the moment I position my legs so that my shins are vertical and line up right outside the first ring. Critique away.
You recorded from too close and the weight looks easy. Record some heavy sets. I can’t tell if your hips shoot back and you lean forward before or after the weight leaves the floor, but it looks like you pull with your shoulders forward and lats not engaged, along with some upper back rounding. Intentionally rounding your upper back is an advanced technique that works for some people, but it’s not generally something you would want a novice lifter doing.
Re: lats:
