Deadlift Technique Update

Training Powerlifting
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I hit the gym to work specifically on my deadlift technique today. I watched a couple of videos on “wedging” during a deadlift and did my best to implement that today along with keeping my lower back tight. It seems that no matter what I do my upper back starts rounded and finishes rounded. However, I noticed that my back does not change shape during the lift like it did before, but I need to try this with heavier weight to see if that still holds true.

When I use this “wedging’ technique anything under 165lbs starts to hover above the ground before I begin the lift, which to my understanding, is what should happen with lighter weight when you’re doing it correctly. For the record I’m about 5"10” 190lbs. I noticed that when using this technique the bar comes up slower of the ground then when I was just yanking it, but the lockout feels extremely powerful. My main concern is still with the back. It might be hard to tell in the video, but I’m engaging the lats by really trying to “bend” the bar around my shins to create that tension. I think this was the reason my back didn’t round as soon as I started pulling. Anyways, enough of me talking. Here are the vids of a couple of better reps I did.

And here is my brother of similar height and proportions (who has barely deadlifted in his life) keeping a straighter back than me on his first attempt:

I’m still baffled as to how I’m unable to keep my upper back straight like that. I’m not sure if I’m mistaking upper back curving for thicker spinal erectors, or if my spine just curves like that naturally. My takeaway from this session is that using the wedging technique, the pull feels significantly easier and seems to explode after the bar has risen a few inches off the floor. I also feel that my lower back is in a fairly good position throughout the lift this time, unlike previous weeks. I just can’t figure out how to keep my upper back straight.

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The problem is pretty obvious to me. I said it earlier but I’ll try a different way:

  • Look at the angle your brother’s lower legs are starting at at the begining of the pull and compared to yours. His are pretty verticle, yours are not
  • Look how high your brother’s hips are in the start position and look at yours.

When I say look, I mean run them side by side.

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I had a very similar starting position to my brother with higher hips if you look at my videos from previous weeks. My upper back still arches even if I raise my hips. When I sit back into the deadlift like I did in this video, my upper back is still slightly arched, but the pull feels much more explosive and feels more like a leg press. Sitting back also helps me maintain that tension in my lats that I wasn’t getting with a higher hip position. My brother can do exactly what I did in the above videos and keep a straight back, so I doubt its an issue with hip height.

Edit: That being said I will try a higher hip position next session, but I highly doubt it will correct my upper back rounding. You make a good point with the shin angle. I’ll bring the bar slightly closer next time.

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Cover the tongue of your shoes.

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[quote=“idontbrag123, post:21, topic:231391”]
I hit the gym to work specifically on my deadlift technique today. I watched a couple of videos on “wedging” during a deadlift and did my best to implement that today along with keeping my lower back tight. It seems that no matter what I do my upper back starts rounded and finishes rounded. However, I noticed that my back does not change shape during the lift like it did before, but I need to try this with heavier weight to see if that still holds true. [/quote]

Upper Back Rounding

Upper Back rounding is fairly natural for most Conventional Deadlifters.

Dr Bret Contreras…

“A Case For The Round Back Deadlift”

Decreases Torque. The farther the bar is from the Body’s Center of Gravity, COG, the greater the Torque. That means the bar weight is magnified beyond it true weight.

Upper Back Rounding enable you to pull the bar in closer on top of you. The closer you maintain the weight to your Center of Gravity, the less force you need to exert, the more weight you pull.

Contreras’ one of many article that has addressed the misguided dogma on Deadlifting that continue be parroted misinformed individuals.

Slower Off The Ground

Conventional Deadlifter are in a stronger biomechanical position in the bottom part, coming off the floor. Conventional Deadlifter drive the weight off the floor with much greater force and power than Sumo Deadlifter.

The Sticking Point for Conventional Deadlifters traditionally is just below to right above the knees.

The benefit for Conventional Deadlifter is the higher the power output they generate in coming off the floor enable to slide through the Knee Sticking Point.

Deadlift Training Objective

I addressed this in the previous post.

Your Training Objective is the determinate factor in which Deadlift Technique you apply.

I’m still baffled as to how I’m unable to keep my upper back straight like that. I’m not sure if… my spine just curves like that naturally. I just can’t figure out how to keep my upper back straight.[/quote]

Natural

The majority of Conventional Deadlifter are going to “Naturally” have some Upper Back Rounding.

Trying to maintain a flat back position for the majority of Conventional Deadlifts amounts to trying to turn yourself from a right handed to left handed person; it UNNATURAL.

How To Maintain A Straight Back

However, if your objective is to maintain a straight back at all cost, it is mandatory that you drop the weight down until you are able to do so.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks Kenny, I forgot to mention that I read your previous post and it was quite enlightening. I’m pretty sure that my lower back isn’t rounding in the recent videos. Does anyone feel otherwise? I’d like to know. Thanks!

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It’s still slightly rounded, but much better.

For what it’s worth, I used to pull conventional with a slightly rounded back. I thought I could get away with it like some people do, my max was in the low 500s. After a series of minor aches and strains, something just popped in my back when I was pulling about 80%. It was on the first rep, no technical breakdown or anything, it felt like something exploded in my lower back. It was hard to move and I was in constant pain for about a week but I was able to start training again, although with lighter weights (around 60%). I also switched to sumo and haven’t had any back issues since. During that time I started reading Stuart McGill’s work, I bought “Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance” which provided a lot of useful information. Basically, some people can tolerate loaded spinal flexion while others can’t, and the only way to find out is to keep lifting with a rounded back until you injure yourself.

A lot of people have a hard time setting up for a conventional deadlift with a neutral spine. This is one of the reasons why so many Russian lifters pull sumo. Boris Sheiko had said that lifters unable to set up with a straight back should use a sumo stance. You might be able to pull more conventional right now, but how far are you going to get with an injured back?

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Thanks for the input Chris. Jesus that sounds rough. Definitely something I’d want to avoid at all costs. Switching to sumo is a serious consideration and something I should definitely try. I’m fairly new to lifting so I’m going to try and adjust my conventional technique until it’s close to perfect or I find I’m simply unable to get in a safe position. If it’s the latter then I’m giving sumo a try.

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I’m going to initially come off as contradictory, but close with a unifying theme.

I started pulling sumo, but I had to go to conventional because sumo deadlifting was hurting me. Sumo deadlifting puts a lot more strain on the hips and and hip flexors. The combination of the that stress lead to an SI strain that took 5 months before my squat reached pre-injury levels and 9 before my deadlift did.

I had to switch to conventional. Fortunately, my levers favor both equally other than what my joints can take so the transition wasn’t too bad.

That was back in December '09. I still can’t sumo deadlift without pain but conventional still feels great. So now I just stick to box squats if I want to build hip strength and power.

My point being, try both variations and see if one looks and feels better than the other. If you haven’t done any sumo DLing, be sure to give it chance by learning the form before making a judgement.

If you stick with conventional, try pulling the weight off some blocks with the bar mid-shin to just below the knees and see if that lets you pull with a straighter back. If it does, then try gradually lowering the blocks instead of adding weight until you can pull off the floor with a straight(er) back.

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Thanks Fletch, I will definitely give it a try in the coming weeks and see how it is. What weakness is associated with being unable to keep a straight back? I’ve been stretching the hell out of my hamstrings and hip flexors so time will tell if that’s the answer but tbh I’m not sure. If I can pull with a straight back from blocks, which I can, what’s preventing me from pulling from lower? The only answer to me is flexibility.

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If you are able to get into position with a straight back and it rounds during the lift (assuming this isn’t a max attempt) then the issue is improper bracing and possibly weak spinal erectors.

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Getting anywhere close to perfect is going to take years. Right now you want to be able to lift with minimal risk for injury, aka keeping a neutral spine.

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I have heard numerous strong lifters say that they can’t pull sumo because it hurts their hips, or only train sumo in the last few weeks of meet prep because it starts to beat their hips up. Ed Coan and Dan Austin are/were examples of the latter.

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In my previous videos my back would definitely start rounding more as I lifted the weight. Ever since I tried to “bend the bar” I feel that this has improved and my back doesn’t curve more than it is as I lift, so I think my previous issue was due to bracing. Like you mentioned earlier, my lower back is still slightly rounded (and still needs work) but better than the previous videos. I’ve also seen it mentioned numerous times that upper back rounding is ok to a degree.

Another user mentioned that bringing the bar closer to my shins and my hips higher would likely help with the back rounding, but yesterday I went in and I could definitely see that my upper back was still slightly rounded (although slightly higher hips felt better for me). In the latest video, that was about as straight as I could get. I literally had my girlfriend telling me when my back was straighter during the setup.

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Well guys, I hit the gym for yet another deadlift workout. My deadlifts were atrocious. My lower back is completely blown away from deadlifting nearly every other day. 275lbs felt like 350, and my back continued to round. Yay.

After doing 5x5 of deadlifts that felt 60lbs heavier than they normally would I said screw it and tried feebly to practice sumo. I worked on my form the first few reps with 135lbs, and by the end of the workout had my max conventional deadlift on the bar. My conventional deadlift on a good day should be around 405, although I’ve never tried. my first day ever trying sumo (literally 10 reps in) I blew the weight off the floor. Bear in mind I’m completely burned out at this point. For some strange reason I decided not to finish the lift. I have no idea why. Getting the weight off the floor was the hard part in the previous reps. It’s like I had some beginner’s timidness about pulling 4 plates (lolz). I’m frustrated at that last lift. but extremely excited to say the least. Thank you everyone for the help so far. I’ve done my best to take the good parts and implement them. Shame I couldn’t get my conventional deadlift to work, but I think I may have found something I’m good at. I’ll keep you guys updated with vids in the future. My sumo form is probably terrible aswell.

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You are fortunate to have a ‘natural’ sumo so strong relative to your conventional.

I’ll be focusing on sumo this next training cycle to see if I can get it up to my conventional.

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Hit the gym for a pretty hard squat/bench/row session. Managed to get a few light reps in with sumo just for technique. vids are posted below:

135lbs

225 lbs 1st set

225lbs 2nd set

You cant see it from the side, but ive got the full width of my shins outside the rings on the barbell, so my toes are about 3 inches from the plates. I could probably get closer but I’m afraid of crushing my toes. The weight is a bit too light to set up properly, but it should provide some idea of my form at this point. Critique away!

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To light to critique in my opinion.

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Thanks knobby, I feel that the sumo plays fairly well to my leverages and strengths. I think that given my squat, I’d expect to pull much more conventional than I currently do, so I’m not sure if it’s my leverages or my erectors are weak. I’ll probably pull conventional once in awhile still but I have a tendency to go hard in a specific type of lift and never look back. I’ll be resting until wednesday to get an idea of what my max sumo pull would be.

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Yea that’s sort of what I expected, I only realized this after I left the gym. I’ll try to get some heavier lifts later next week.