Deadlift Substitute

Training Bodybuilding
22

Guys, guys, guys.

The poster asked for a suggestion. Though he disclosed info about the nature of his injury, NONE of us are in any position to tell him what not to do.

He said he doesn’t want to do conventional deads because they hurt/are hurting him.

Now, it’s fine to say “I’d personally stay away from GMs because they stress the back more than deadlifts.”

But you have no way of knowing whether they are actually going to hurt him in the same way. Everyone uses different form, and frankly I suspect he can figure it out for himself.

To the original poster: Go with your instinct, if you’re smart enough to figure out deads aren’t good, you should be able to figure out from this generously varied thread what is.

I just despise internet diagnoses; though the guy asked for suggestions, there is no need to say “NEVER DO EXERCISE X IF YOU CAN’T DO DEADLIFTS.” For all we know, Good Morning squats with chains may be his freakin’ magic bullet. The point is, try these exercises safely with a safe load, knowing your form etc, and think for yourself.

Good luck.

23

[quote]Sxio wrote:
conwict wrote:
And considering you need 50-100 extra pounds on 'em…I’d be very careful.

You don’t NEED extra weight. You never need extra weight. It is only a tool that we use to overload our muscles.
[/quote]

Getting a little technical here Sxio. Sure he doesn’t need it…but he doesn’t need a deadlift substitute, or weight lifting at all for that matter, they’re just tools. No need to take me so literally.

I was pointing out that there is a generally good reason to load the movement heavier than a deadlift, just like most people load a back squat heavier than a front squat.[quote]

Especially if he is injured, he should be looking to increase his time under tension. If he’s going for more weight with a back problem then he’s just crazy.
[/quote]

I don’t know about the potential to rehab his specific injury, but I assume that he will be able to handle more weight on rack pulls than deadlifts, even if both of his loading capabilities are inferior due to the injury. No matter what his goals, caution is key here.

I don’t necessarily think rack pulls are very effective with light loads, or at least not more effective than a very lightly loaded deadlift. If he’s going to deload to that extent on rack pulls, he may as well just do super-light conventional deads in order to achieve the time-under-tension you recommend.

Sound advice. I think we can agree on the basics here.

24

[quote]conwict wrote:
Guys, guys, guys.

The poster asked for a suggestion. Though he disclosed info about the nature of his injury, NONE of us are in any position to tell him what not to do.

He said he doesn’t want to do conventional deads because they hurt/are hurting him.

Now, it’s fine to say “I’d personally stay away from GMs because they stress the back more than deadlifts.”

But you have no way of knowing whether they are actually going to hurt him in the same way. Everyone uses different form, and frankly I suspect he can figure it out for himself.

To the original poster: Go with your instinct, if you’re smart enough to figure out deads aren’t good, you should be able to figure out from this generously varied thread what is.

I just despise internet diagnoses; though the guy asked for suggestions, there is no need to say “NEVER DO EXERCISE X IF YOU CAN’T DO DEADLIFTS.” For all we know, Good Morning squats with chains may be his freakin’ magic bullet. The point is, try these exercises safely with a safe load, knowing your form etc, and think for yourself.

Good luck.[/quote]

I do know this though. If he has been to a doctor and they told him that he had a ruptured disc, good mornings are going to impinge it reguardless of whether its a cervical or lumbar herniation. However I also believe that Jacked Diesel has been around long enough to know that he doesn’t want to try a good morning (Diesel, if I’m wrong correct me).

26

[quote]bmitch wrote:
why are good mornings a bad exercise?[/quote]

He has a herniated disc. When you do a good morning it puts pressure on the posterior side of the spine due to the muscles of the posterior chain. Normally that would be a good thing because it would strengthen the muscles, however since he has a herniation in the disc, it will cause the nucleus pulposa to leak out of the vertebral disc into the vertebral foramin causing it to pinch the spinal nerves which causes pain.

27

[quote]tveddy wrote:
bmitch wrote:
why are good mornings a bad exercise?

He has a herniated disc. When you do a good morning it puts pressure on the posterior side of the spine due to the muscles of the posterior chain. Normally that would be a good thing because it would strengthen the muscles, however since he has a herniation in the disc, it will cause the nucleus pulposa to leak out of the vertebral disc into the vertebral foramin causing it to pinch the spinal nerves which causes pain.[/quote]

That’s a good perspective on it. I just think that we can’t know all the ins and outs of his situation, and it’s important to modify any statements we make to keep them from being absolute.

Call me a pedant, but better to be a bit verbose than to give someone the idea (perhaps even someone other than the original poster) that one of these statements is “absolute.”

28

Thanks for all the advice guys, sorry I haven’t commented, I’ve been bogged down heavily with school and completely forget I even created this thread. I’ll see if I can answer some of your questions:

Heavy Dead lifts hurt me during the movement. I can get well into the 400 level of weight, but I do not like to because I might suffer further injury. I can do 3 sets of 12 with 230 just fine with no pain, but that’s boring.

Because of my back, I equate good mornings as being stabbed in the back with a butcher knife. It is painful, awkward, and because I am strong with a back injury, I would have to do a lot of weight for it to have any affect on me, and in turn, that affect would be pain.

Whoever suggested the trap bar, while it certainly was an interesting idea, because with my stature I would be dealing with a great amount of weight, I need the support of my thighs to stabilize the weight otherwise it could end in disaster.

I do experience lower back pain when I squat heavy.

I love dead lifts, it is one of the three most important exercises you can do, but unfortunately I will have to refrain from going heavy on it anymore so as to avoid injury.

So here is what I have gathered, stop doing heavy dead lifts, and replace them will pull-ups, reverse hyperextensions, pull downs, etc. in order to get the same desired affect on my back, especially the lower back. But what about the legs? it is frustrating to have to go do 7 different exercises when the dead lift does them all.

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[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:

So here is what I have gathered, stop doing heavy dead lifts, and replace them will pull-ups, reverse hyperextensions, pull downs, etc. in order to get the same desired affect on my back, especially the lower back. But what about the legs? it is frustrating to have to go do 7 different exercises when the dead lift does them all.[/quote]

Did you try squats with a dip belt? It sounds janky, but I’m betting it will be the best way. you could also use some jumpstretch bands the same way.

[quote]conwict wrote:

That’s a good perspective on it. I just think that we can’t know all the ins and outs of his situation, and it’s important to modify any statements we make to keep them from being absolute.

Call me a pedant, but better to be a bit verbose than to give someone the idea (perhaps even someone other than the original poster) that one of these statements is “absolute.”[/quote]

I smell what you’re steppin in, in that there was someone who asked why gms were bad. But its pretty safe to say that gms in conjunction with a herniated disc are bad. I just didn’t realize that it would be taken out of context.

30

Jacked Diesel, as far as the effect on your back, I would recommend some lighter, speed-oriented exercises IF AND ONLY IF you can do them…which I have no idea about…high pulls with clean, or snatch grip, being one of them. In my experience that doesn’t put a lot of shearing force on the back compared to a DL/GM. Proceed cautiously though.

I was actually reading recently in (I think) a Tony Gentilcore article that exercises like lunges, step-ups, and similar work the hams very effectively - enough to balance out squats.

A good exercise, IMO, for the hams is the one-leg RDL. You might be surprised…if you’re working with 350 on regular RDLs, or would be, you can just do 150-180 on a one-leg BB RDL and there’s little to no back stress with similar hamstring stimulus. Just use good form because cheating with momentum is easy.