Hey this is my first post and I hope to not get flamed too hard. I have a minor back problem and cannot put to much compression along the vertical plane of my spine without a good amount of pain (not the good kind). Does anyone have any ideas on how to compensate? I now do leg presses with varying foot placement (high on foot plate) to hit glutes a bit more than normal leg press. I also do dumbell lunges, step ups, lying hammy curl.
Thanks for all the advice.
Is your “minor back problem” correctable or is it a permanant problem?
I’d say work around your injury by figuring out what you can handle IE: maybe try some Bulgarian split squats in a smith machine. While this will never replace a real squat it may be all you can do until you get your back fixed. You wrote you cannot handle much compression(weight) How much is that in relation to say your 1rm?
Maybe hit all your leg presses, leg ext’s, leg curls first to exhaust them then do ‘light’ squats for a widowmaker set, ala DC training. That’s what I’d do until my situation improved.
All in all you can only do what you can do. This is one of those “how bad do you want it” moments.If you want it badly enough you’ll figure out a way to make shit happen.
Good luck and don’t f**k your back up more!!
It sounds like you are on the right track working around your injury. i would definitely get it checked out tho.
also, have you tried front squats or hack squats?
if you’re worried about not getting enough glute work, I know there was an article written a little while back that has tons of information and exercises about working the glutes. sorry but i cannot remember what it is called.
I agree with fandango on the front squats. they take so much pressure off of the back and a lot of people get better actual leg results wit hthem than conventional squats.
[quote]eagertolearn wrote:
Hey this is my first post and I hope to not get flamed too hard. I have a minor back problem and cannot put to much compression along the vertical plane of my spine without a good amount of pain (not the good kind). Does anyone have any ideas on how to compensate? I now do leg presses with varying foot placement (high on foot plate) to hit glutes a bit more than normal leg press. I also do dumbell lunges, step ups, lying hammy curl.
Thanks for all the advice.[/quote]
I have a similar issue. I have used a combination of the HS V-squat (I think that’s what it’s called) machine, hack squats, leg presses, lunges, and extensions. The key to getting growth for me has been HIGH REPS, especially on the leg press. Just be sure that when leg pressing you keep your back straight throughout the movement. Don’t let it buckle at all at the bottom. This might mean restricting your ROM a little or going a bit lighter than you would like, but it’s better to go lighter with higher reps than to make your injury worse.
Did your doctor say anything about exercises? Mine told me to avoid anything that caused pain (duh), and he also gave me some exercises to build up my core, which he said would help protect my back. I’ve been doing more direct ab work, and also some exercises for my lower back to help protect it. I’ve also switched my routine around to protect my back (i.e. cutting out deads and rows, using more machine so there’s less picking up weights).
There’s a temptation to want to squat and do other exercises like that, because you feel like that’s “hardcore” or the way serious people train. Just keep reminding yourself that it’s better to gain a bit more slowly than to get injured worse and have to quit training for a long time.
Don’t listen to anyone who says, “Find a way to squat, you wuss” or something like that. DO NOT do any exercise if it aggravates your back. Working around an injury is the MOST LEGITIMATE reason to use machines. I know there’s a lot of anti-machine sentiment on this site, but you can put on size using machines, which you won’t be able to do if you can’t train.
Why not read a couple of articles and learn how to fix your back and then learn how to squat correctly. Read Eric Cressey, Mike Boyle, Mike Robertson, and Tony Gentilcore articles. In the mean time really focus on your deadlift, do pull throughs, reverse lunges, etc…
There is a lot of stuff your can do while you work on your hip, thoracic spine, and ankle mobility and get basic torso strength. You just have to do a little homework.
To add to my post above –
If you haven’t seen a doctor yet, there’s a simple diagnostic that the doctor did when he looked at me.
I lay on my back, and the doctor raised my leg (keeping it straight) until it was as far back as it could comfortably go. He said that if I had had a herniated disk, this would have caused pain to shoot down my back and leg. I’d recommend that you try this, and if you do experience pain like I described, you stop lifting until you can see a doctor. Either way, I recommend seeing one soon.
front squats and trap bar deadlifts, if those still cause to much compression, try front barbell reverse lunges
any variety of DB lunges (front, reverse, walking).
DB bulgarian squats (or rear foot elevated single leg squats, whatever you want to call them)
split squats (dbs, bb)
various machines like leg curl, hip extension, leg extension, various types of leg presses and squatting machines. (note, most leg presses, even though not loaded directly in the vertical plane, create tons of sheering and compressive force).
No one “has” to back squat. I haven’t in months and I’ve managed just fine to put on leg size. Just pick any leg exercise that doesn’t cause you pain and get stronger on it and you’re going to grow (provided diet and volume are appropriate).
Everyone above thanks: To run through a few of the questions/comments:
After having back from a stupid injury I got at work I switched over to making heavy leg presses and hack squats the bread and butter of my quad workout and I haven’t looked back since. I personally have seen a lot more gains in size and strength since doing this, and with proper forum hack squats don’t bother me at all.
Do the hack squats after leg press so that you don’t have to use as much weight, it’s definitely worked for me.
Squats and milk.
Oh, fuck.
Zackgsc - Something similar is what I have been leaning toward and doing the hack squat after the presses is a good idea to require the usage of less weight. Note I know that the hack squat is suppose to be superior than regular barbell squats at developing the sought after “tear drop”. . . again I know barbell squats have their benefits but I like to be optimistic.
Also, food for thought → in the issue of Muscular Development with Branch after the Olympia on the cover there was an article debunking the idea of pre-exhaustion techniques to allegedly activate more muscle fiber. The study they performed was on doing leg extensions before squats as is apparently a popular method of lifting. Yes I enjoy reading fitness magazines and No I dont look anything like the guys in it but hope to perhaps be after years of hard training and good nutrition (easier said than done). Of course personal experience serves better than any study since we are all different but found it interesting.
[quote]eagertolearn wrote:
9/10 guys don’t have the flexibility to use the olympic grip. 99/100 guys that are actually big don’t have the flexibility to use the olympic grip, and those 1% of guys who do were olympic lifters at one point.
Front squats might still cause too much compression though, it really depends on the extent of the injury, you’ll have to play it by feel.
But either way, I heart front squats so much. On par with my love for my mother actually.
I am coming out of some minor back pain and at one point compression was a big issue.
The hardest thing for me was accepting it would take a long time to heal. There were also times where I may have provoked a re-occurence. I avoided back squats and deadlifts completely. Once I could tolerate the movement under a slight load I progressed really slowly.
Taking the right amount of fish oil really helped me too.
Search back a bit for an article on how to train without loading your spine. Mike boyle i think wrote it? greats tuff about bulgarian sp squats and shit like that. I met a guy with some of the most jacked wheels ever at a gym i work for [not my location tho] and he had a back issue and only did single leg shit. The dudes legs looked like two slightly overweight frat boys stuck in a pair of under armor shorts.
-chris
Sounds to me like it could be a form issue that’s causing you to pinch something. Either way, get it checked by either seeing your doctor, or a qualified chiro… Look for one (doc/chiro) that actually specializes or has significant experience in sports related issues/medicine…
Some good posts above on substitute exercises…
There’s a number of variations of grip on the Front Squat… I’ve tried them all, but for me, I find the cross grip works best, but that’s for me… You might find a different kind of grip works better for your body style… If you’ve never done them before, know now that they’re a bit of a tricky exercise to get into the groove with, so don’t give up right away…
A good Hack-Squat machine should help, if your gym has one… Mine doesn’t and I miss not having one…
You also mention a fear of a leg/knee injury when going heavy… Because of that, I’d actually focus on single-leg movements (working first your weaker leg, then your stronger leg)…
My suggestions for single-leg exercises:
Bulgarian Split Squats
DB Step Up’s
Lunges
Leg Press
Extensions
Curls
Stretch, stretch, and stretch some more…
A leg press takes all the load off your back. Using a machine won’t kill you.
Hey thanks for the updated advive:
SmallFry—my gym does have a good hack squat machine do you mind letting me know why you miss it at your gym? Did it hit something better for you or was? Change of pace? or perhaps some needed rest/peace of mind when you didnt wanna load your back up?
I def have to go youtube some bulgarian split squat videos —> actually I am sitting through federal income tax law so I will be doing that right now.
Also, let me own up to the fact that there is a very good possibly that my squat form may be incorrect. I have tried, read, and viewed information on exactly how to squat and even before my back pain started I always felt that something was off. I tried heel elevated squats and that seemed to help but I know a lot of people are totally against those.
It seems that even when my back does heal I will hopefully have a solid base of single leg work and alternatives so that I may never feel the need to standard squat again (note I am willing to take good allbeit less than optimal results if I can have relative peace of mind from back/knee injury). Funny I thought I would get flamed a lot harder for being anxious about the standard back squat. Thanks for the advice and insight fellas.