[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
sounds like it might be time for a change. unless it is a sign that your blast is getting a little too long. not sure how long you’ve been going at it though. i personally like spider curls a lot, either with a bb or a db. you might also want to consider doing some cable work or ez bar curls. [/quote]
It’s been maybe 6 weeks, but I feel fresh and making progress in general.
I’ll try spider curls with a bar
What’s your take on the issue with back width exercises?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
-Drag Curls (curl up normally, then drag down along/close-to body with EZ bar or whatever)
-HS Plate loaded curl machine…
-Seated Alt Curls
-Cable Curl variants
…
[/quote]
I personally never got much out of cable curl variants. Would drag curls or spider curls be better or it doesn’t matter?
Oh. I didn’t know that. OK Thanks
[quote]
The stretch and semi-stretch parts are the ones that’ll do the trick for backwidth when the exercise is done right… That being said, pull-ups are definitely not a favorite of mine… I think if you want to progress fast on them in terms of reps/added weight (despite also gaining bodyweight at a good rate), then you’ll have to do them at least 3 times a week, probably 4 times… Unless you have the right structure/attachments for them or whatever. I certainly don’t.[/quote]
Oh. Why is that?
I’m now doing Pullups, Wide-grip pullups (both weighted) and cable pulldowns. Maybe replace one of those with rack chins?
theblade - same feeling as cc on not finishing the move. the last few inches of the pullup is mainly about shoulder mobility and biceps, not so much about lats. how about rack chins, btn rack chins (if your shoulders can handle it) and wide grip (use a long bar) low pulley rows. the last one is something that i have started to do for the past few blasts. i use the bar that’s made for neutral (palms facing each other) pulldowns, hook that up to the cable row station, and row. slower on this hits the lasts better imo.
[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
theblade - same feeling as cc on not finishing the move. the last few inches of the pullup is mainly about shoulder mobility and biceps, not so much about lats. how about rack chins, btn rack chins (if your shoulders can handle it) and wide grip (use a long bar) low pulley rows. the last one is something that i have started to do for the past few blasts. i use the bar that’s made for neutral (palms facing each other) pulldowns, hook that up to the cable row station, and row. slower on this hits the lasts better imo. [/quote]
I did that wide grip low cable row for a while after seeing Dave Henry do it in one of the vids on youtube. Seemed to work well. I’d like to try them with a rope as well (like Dave Tate was doing in one of his vids on youtube), but the pulley station at my gym doesn’t really allow for it. I have to prop a reebok step on the foot platform as it is to allow me to get a good stretch while using the wide grip handle. There’s no way I could do them with a rope and not have the weight stack rest at a full stretched position.
But, I’d third C_C’s suggestion to try out rack chins Blade. I’d replace either one of the pull-up variations with them (whichever one you feel either doesn’t have good strength progression potential, or doesn’t work as well for your lats).
Then you can either keep the other one and take it to it’s limit. Or, you could try something like low pulley rows, HS pulldown, strap pulldowns (something I came up with to mimic the old nautilus pull-over), or any other pull-down variation that you haven’t recently maxed out or aren’t currently doing.
edit. nevermind, found it
Random DC thoughts, never really took much stock in “over training” until I started doing DC training. In all my years of training I’ve never had a single symptom of over training but since adopting DC the symptoms are mounting. As of late I’m tired but can’t sleep, my thoughts are foggy, lift numbers are going down and my interest in going to the gym is about zero.
This would be week 9 of my second blast with good results, 10lbs gained through 16 weeks of training (taking it slow)and a world of knowledge about how to really push yourself. I was originally planning a 12 week blast but calling off the dogs after only 8. The plan for my cruise is one week off, next week come back easy the following week full tilt.
bump
[quote]dday wrote:
Random DC thoughts, never really took much stock in “over training” until I started doing DC training. In all my years of training I’ve never had a single symptom of over training but since adopting DC the symptoms are mounting. As of late I’m tired but can’t sleep, my thoughts are foggy, lift numbers are going down and my interest in going to the gym is about zero.
This would be week 9 of my second blast with good results, 10lbs gained through 16 weeks of training (taking it slow)and a world of knowledge about how to really push yourself. I was originally planning a 12 week blast but calling off the dogs after only 8. The plan for my cruise is one week off, next week come back easy the following week full tilt.
bump[/quote]
Good to hear that you’re listening to your body.
And yeah, not too many programs are as physically draining as DC (and still give good results).
Keep up the good work. 
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I prefer rack “chins” etc… HS pulldowns should work well… Nautilus pullover machine (yates) looks nice, but I don’t have one…[/quote]
If any of you guys are looking for an exercise to mimic the nautilus pull-over machine, give my “strap pull-downs” a try.
To do them, just attach some of those “Ab Originals” (or whatever brand you have available) ab straps to the lat pull-down pulley. Slide your arms into the straps, like you were going to do hanging leg raises (personally I prefer to keep my wrists supinated as much as possible), sit down into the seat and you’re ready to go.
You’ve got to keep a constant bend in your arms or the straps will slide off your elbows, but other than that this movement pretty much takes the arm flexors out of the equation and places the stress directly on the lats.
Another “trick” I’ve found is to lean the body forward at the top of the movement (to better stretch the lats, similar to the alternative lat stretch that Wojo demos in the DC DVD) and sit more upright towards the bottom (to avoid hitting yourself in the face with the cable).
Probably not quite as good as the real thing, but definitely an adequate replacement. Also, most people likely have access to the necessary equipment. And for those who have a hard time not using their arm flexors on back width movements, this exercise can help them isolate the lats while still being able to use some appreciable weights (unlike say straight arm pull-downs).
Enjoy.
[quote]dday wrote:
Random DC thoughts, never really took much stock in “over training” until I started doing DC training. In all my years of training I’ve never had a single symptom of over training but since adopting DC the symptoms are mounting. As of late I’m tired but can’t sleep, my thoughts are foggy, lift numbers are going down and my interest in going to the gym is about zero.
This would be week 9 of my second blast with good results, 10lbs gained through 16 weeks of training (taking it slow)and a world of knowledge about how to really push yourself. I was originally planning a 12 week blast but calling off the dogs after only 8. The plan for my cruise is one week off, next week come back easy the following week full tilt.
bump[/quote]
I can totally relate, Dday, as I am experiencing that right now!
Except I’m only on week #7 of my 2nd blast and I’m achy and burnt out feeling. Plus, I have a stabbing pain in my Brachio in my right forearm, and problems in back of my left knee joint which I need to see a doctor about (I think I did some damage to the ligaments doing Glute/Ham raises).
I only put on about 3 lbs this blast, and my sleep in the past week has been crap.
I’ll turn 47 in 3 weeks, so I’m starting to think that my age, coupled with my tendency to injure easily has rendered me an unfit candidate for DC. Sad, because I LOVE DC and love working hard to failure. The desire is there, but the body isn’t liking it. I’ll be taking a week off then re-evaluating my situation. Whether I return to DC stands to be seen. Maybe I just need to tweak it… like only doing 1 RP set per exercise on problem areas, or maybe just doing high-rep work.
I will say this: I look better than I ever have in my life. I’m fuller and bigger (though not as strong as in my youth, nor as ripped). My wife is not one to pass out compliments, but in our 23 years of marriage, she finally told me recently that I look massive. LOL!
Of course that’s a relative declaration, as I am nowhere near massive by any stretch.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I prefer rack “chins” etc… HS pulldowns should work well… Nautilus pullover machine (yates) looks nice, but I don’t have one…
If any of you guys are looking for an exercise to mimic the nautilus pull-over machine, give my “strap pull-downs” a try.
To do them, just attach some of those “Ab Originals” (or whatever brand you have available) ab straps to the lat pull-down pulley. Slide your arms into the straps, like you were going to do hanging leg raises (personally I prefer to keep my wrists supinated as much as possible), sit down into the seat and you’re ready to go.
You’ve got to keep a constant bend in your arms or the straps will slide off your elbows, but other than that this movement pretty much takes the arm flexors out of the equation and places the stress directly on the lats.
Another “trick” I’ve found is to lean the body forward at the top of the movement (to better stretch the lats, similar to the alternative lat stretch that Wojo demos in the DC DVD) and sit more upright towards the bottom (to avoid hitting yourself in the face with the cable).
Probably not quite as good as the real thing, but definitely an adequate replacement. Also, most people likely have access to the necessary equipment. And for those who have a hard time not using their arm flexors on back width movements, this exercise can help them isolate the lats while still being able to use some appreciable weights (unlike say straight arm pull-downs).
Enjoy. :)[/quote]
EXCELLENT suggestion, Sento!
I remember once watching an old guy do ab work with that apparatus and thinking to myself “Hey! Maybe I could do lats with that!” I just couldn’t think of a way to keep the straps on the arms in the up position. You’re right… a simple bend in the arms would work!
Iron Dwarf, are you following the advice laid out by Dante in the Lifters Over 34 Years of Age thread at IM? He suggests older lifters to increase their rep range to help alleviate stress on the joints from heavIER weights.
You could also follow dropshot’s method of employing 2 SS in place of the 3 leg RP or you could drop the 3rd leg of the RP. Another possible solution would be to switch from the 2-way to the 3-way routine. You wouldn’t see the same rate of gains with the 3-way as you would with the 2-way, but if it helps to keep you healthy and in the gym, it might be a viable option. Of course you wouldn’t want to use any of the advanced widowmakers, except the usual one for quads, on the 3-way either. Those are some of the options you could consider to meet your individual needs.
[quote]kylec72 wrote:
Iron Dwarf, are you following the advice laid out by Dante in the Lifters Over 34 Years of Age thread at IM? He suggests older lifters to increase their rep range to help alleviate stress on the joints from heavIER weights. [/quote]
Hey Ky. No, I haven’t seen that thread (I have a hard time navigating IM. My browser is slow and clunky, so I’ve pretty much avoided the IM site).
But thanks for the advice!
These are excellent suggestions, and give me something to look forward to instead of dropping DC cold.
Thanks Ky.
irondwarf - if you want some extra advice on how to set the rep ranges for the 2ss or a 2rp (i have done both) feel free to message me. you could also post it in this thread, but i don’t know how this will add/detract from the confusion that already seems pretty abundant with dc.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
Iron Dwarf, are you following the advice laid out by Dante in the Lifters Over 34 Years of Age thread at IM? He suggests older lifters to increase their rep range to help alleviate stress on the joints from heavIER weights.
Hey Ky. No, I haven’t seen that thread (I have a hard time navigating IM. My browser is slow and clunky, so I’ve pretty much avoided the IM site).
But thanks for the advice!
[/quote]
In a nutshell though, like Kyle said, Dante suggests that all lifters doing DC who are older than 34 should bump all of their rep ranges up to 15-30 or 20-30 (depending on the exercise) to minimize stress on the joints.
I’d try that out first and foremost, and if you still have issues, then try dropping one of the RP’s or doing 2 straight sets.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I prefer rack “chins” etc… HS pulldowns should work well… Nautilus pullover machine (yates) looks nice, but I don’t have one…
If any of you guys are looking for an exercise to mimic the nautilus pull-over machine, give my “strap pull-downs” a try.
To do them, just attach some of those “Ab Originals” (or whatever brand you have available) ab straps to the lat pull-down pulley. Slide your arms into the straps, like you were going to do hanging leg raises (personally I prefer to keep my wrists supinated as much as possible), sit down into the seat and you’re ready to go.
You’ve got to keep a constant bend in your arms or the straps will slide off your elbows, but other than that this movement pretty much takes the arm flexors out of the equation and places the stress directly on the lats.
Another “trick” I’ve found is to lean the body forward at the top of the movement (to better stretch the lats, similar to the alternative lat stretch that Wojo demos in the DC DVD) and sit more upright towards the bottom (to avoid hitting yourself in the face with the cable).
Probably not quite as good as the real thing, but definitely an adequate replacement. Also, most people likely have access to the necessary equipment. And for those who have a hard time not using their arm flexors on back width movements, this exercise can help them isolate the lats while still being able to use some appreciable weights (unlike say straight arm pull-downs).
Enjoy. :)[/quote]
Thank you!!!
I need to try this tomorrow, I have been heartbroken since moving gyms and losing my beloved HS pullover machine 
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I prefer rack “chins” etc… HS pulldowns should work well… Nautilus pullover machine (yates) looks nice, but I don’t have one…
If any of you guys are looking for an exercise to mimic the nautilus pull-over machine, give my “strap pull-downs” a try.
To do them, just attach some of those “Ab Originals” (or whatever brand you have available) ab straps to the lat pull-down pulley. Slide your arms into the straps, like you were going to do hanging leg raises (personally I prefer to keep my wrists supinated as much as possible), sit down into the seat and you’re ready to go.
You’ve got to keep a constant bend in your arms or the straps will slide off your elbows, but other than that this movement pretty much takes the arm flexors out of the equation and places the stress directly on the lats.
Another “trick” I’ve found is to lean the body forward at the top of the movement (to better stretch the lats, similar to the alternative lat stretch that Wojo demos in the DC DVD) and sit more upright towards the bottom (to avoid hitting yourself in the face with the cable).
Probably not quite as good as the real thing, but definitely an adequate replacement. Also, most people likely have access to the necessary equipment. And for those who have a hard time not using their arm flexors on back width movements, this exercise can help them isolate the lats while still being able to use some appreciable weights (unlike say straight arm pull-downs).
Enjoy.
Thank you!!!
I need to try this tomorrow, I have been heartbroken since moving gyms and losing my beloved HS pullover machine
[/quote]
Cool, let me know how it goes.
One other tip that I’ve found is to keep the straps just below the elbow. If they’re too high up the arm (towards the armpit) the movement just doesn’t feel right and causes a lot of friction/skin irritation. Play around with placement until you find one that allows you to really pull with the elbows, feels relatively secure (if you to too high up it feels like the straps are going to slide off your arms), and where the straps don’t rub against your body too much.
[quote]dday wrote:
Random DC thoughts, never really took much stock in “over training” until I started doing DC training. In all my years of training I’ve never had a single symptom of over training but since adopting DC the symptoms are mounting. As of late I’m tired but can’t sleep, my thoughts are foggy, lift numbers are going down and my interest in going to the gym is about zero.
This would be week 9 of my second blast with good results, 10lbs gained through 16 weeks of training (taking it slow)and a world of knowledge about how to really push yourself. I was originally planning a 12 week blast but calling off the dogs after only 8. The plan for my cruise is one week off, next week come back easy the following week full tilt.
bump[/quote]
I’d go with 2 week cruises (1 week usually just results in my next blast ending prematurely), you can take a week off and then resume training without RP, failure etc, then resume blasting the third week…
OK. I’ll replace Wide-grip pullups with rack chins and I think also time to take out cable pulldowns for the wide-grip low pulley row.
I’m making good progress on quad exercises, the 20-rep thing must be doing a good job. Triceps also consistently progressing. Then shoulders, back width, hamstrings, calves making decent improvement in weight/reps. Biceps, chest and forearms/brachialis exercise progression tends to be most inconsistent
Any benchmark as to how much weight I should be gaining? I’m up at 183 (from 177 at the end of a cut) as of 7 weeks
Weighed in at 185 today. So really up 8 lbs. Shooting for 190 by Dec 20
Incline Curls stalled today. Replace with Drag Curls?
what are your other bicep exercises? i like preacher curls a lot and also spider curls.