DC Training Thread (Part 2)

Training Bodybuilding
901

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Make sure to keep your scapulae retracted throughout the entire exercise. Personally I like to keep my elbows semi-tucked (like 45 degrees from my torso) as well as this allows me to keep better form and feels more natural on my shoulder joints as well.

You might also want to concentrate on the bottom ROM of the exercises (like from the bar touching the chest to maybe 1/2-3/4 of the way up) as that is the portion of the press where the chest is most heavily stressed and the assistors (front delts and triceps) haven’t really kicked in as much yet.

Some visual examples:
Ronnie

Justin Harris:

Thanks again Sento. Today I did DB flat bench and played around with some things and believe I found a problem. Like you mentioned here, I hadn’t been keeping my scapula retracted properly and as a result my shoulders roll forward and come off the bench, this is something I guess must have happened slowly over time because I hadn’t noticed. I made a conscious effort today to really squeeze my scapula and keep my shoulders down, the result is a VERY sore chest.

902

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
anyone here a responder to high volume routines and still have success with DC?

ive been researching DC for almost a year now, even have a program written up, but im just now thinking of jumping into it. the only thing holding me back is that i always hear people say things like “if you grow on low volume/high frequency programs you’ll love DC”. well im one of these people who hasnt had much success on those types of routines and seem to respond better to higher volume but it seems like the DC principles would apply to anyone.

what do you guys think?
[/quote]

It should work for anyone who has the dedication to follow the program, bust their ass in the gym, and bust their ass at the table.

Waylander is someone who had great success with high volume, and also seems to have had great success with DC. It’s going to take you a little while before you can truly channel all of the intensity that you are currently spreading out over several exercises for each body part into just one triple rest pause set. But your strength will probably jump big time, especially at the beginning. And once you get the hang of not holding back, you’ll be able to really give each exercise your all.

If you want to give it a shot, post up your proposed rotation and we’ll be happy to give you any tips or necessary changes that need to be made. :slight_smile:

903

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

It should work for anyone who has the dedication to follow the program, bust their ass in the gym, and bust their ass at the table.

Waylander is someone who had great success with high volume, and also seems to have had great success with DC. It’s going to take you a little while before you can truly channel all of the intensity that you are currently spreading out over several exercises for each body part into just one triple rest pause set. But your strength will probably jump big time, especially at the beginning. And once you get the hang of not holding back, you’ll be able to really give each exercise your all.

If you want to give it a shot, post up your proposed rotation and we’ll be happy to give you any tips or necessary changes that need to be made. :)[/quote]

thanks man. it does seem like when youre putting such a strong emphasis on progressive overload and intensity anyone can make progress regardless of what they normally respond to. hopefully it wont take me long to figure out the real meaning of intensity.

heres the rotation im planning on doing, most of it seems pretty standard


A1)
Incline Smith Bench 11-15RP
Standing Military in Rack 12-20RP
Smith Reverse Grip Bench 12-20RP
Neutral Grip Pullowns 11-15RP
Rack Pulls 6-9SS, 9-12SS (im assuming this is done as a drop set?)

B1)
BB Curl 15-30RP
DB Hammer Curl 12-20SS
Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS
Seated Leg Curl 15-30RP
Front Squat 4-8SS, widowmaker

A2)
Flat BB Bench in Rack 11-15RP
DB Lateral Raise 12-20RP
Decline Skullcrushers 12-20RP
Medium Grip Chins 11-15RP
Pendlay Row 11-15RP

B2)
Seated DB Curl 15-30RP
Reverse EZ Bar Curl 10-20SS
Seated Calf Raise 10-15SS
Romanian Deadlift 10-15SS
Hack Squat 4-8, widowmaker

A3)
Incline Hammer Strength Press 12-20RP
Upright Row 11-15RP
Seated DB Extension 12-20RP
Wide Grip Pullup 11-15RP
Hex Bar Bent Over Rows 6-9SS, 9-12SS

B3)
Machine Preacher Curl 15-30RP
BB Wrist Curl 10-20SS
Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS
Standing Leg Curl 15-30RP
Back Squat 4-8, widowmaker

904

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

It should work for anyone who has the dedication to follow the program, bust their ass in the gym, and bust their ass at the table.

Waylander is someone who had great success with high volume, and also seems to have had great success with DC. It’s going to take you a little while before you can truly channel all of the intensity that you are currently spreading out over several exercises for each body part into just one triple rest pause set. But your strength will probably jump big time, especially at the beginning. And once you get the hang of not holding back, you’ll be able to really give each exercise your all.

If you want to give it a shot, post up your proposed rotation and we’ll be happy to give you any tips or necessary changes that need to be made. :slight_smile:

thanks man. it does seem like when youre putting such a strong emphasis on progressive overload and intensity anyone can make progress regardless of what they normally respond to. hopefully it wont take me long to figure out the real meaning of intensity.

heres the rotation im planning on doing, most of it seems pretty standard


A1)
Incline Smith Bench 11-15RP
Standing Military in Rack 12-20RP
Smith Reverse Grip Bench 12-20RP
Neutral Grip Pullowns 11-15RP
Rack Pulls 6-9SS, 9-12SS (im assuming this is done as a drop set?)
[/quote]

No, not a drop set for the rack pulls. You do your heavy set, rest 3-5 minutes (just like between the heavy quad set and widowmaker), then do your lighter set.

Looks good otherwise though.

Good. Are you doing the standing calf raises in a standing calf machine? Or are you doing them in a Smith?

Unless you are a powerlifter or really, really insist that flat BB bench is the best chest builder for you, I’d probably switch it out for DB’s. Even if you do decide to keep it, bump the reps up to 15-30RP for safety reasons.

Also go 15-30 for the skullcrushers for you elbow’s sakes.

No RP on the Pendlay row. Chest supported rows are sometimes RP’d, but other than that, all back thickness exercises are done for either 1 or 2 straight sets. You can either go with 2 sets with the same rep ranges that you’re using for your other back thickness exercises, or just 1 straight set of something like 8-12 reps.

Definitely make sure to do the calf protocol using a second hand on a clock for the seated calf raises, otherwise you will either lose count of reps, or cheat.

One of the few times when the order is changed in DC is when doing a stiff legged/Romanian deadlift variation. In these cases, you’ll do the quad exercise (hope you mean machine hack squats) first, then finish the workout with the RDL’s.

I’d suggest going wide on the upright rows and only pulling the elbows up to shoulder level, not pulling the bar up to chin level as that’s easier on the shoulder joint and tends to hit the lateral head of the delts better. I also might suggest going with a higher RP range for saftey.

Personally I’d also suggest doing another pressing movement for triceps. They won’t really be working much during the upright rows, and DB extensions aren’t going to have a big strength progression potential compared to something like CGBP, floor press, or rack lockouts. If you’re really set on doing an extension, I’d suggest giving PJR pull-overs a try as they have a fairly good load potential, and really hit the long head well.

2 standing calf raises? Might want to switch this out for something like leg press calf raises, or machine hack squat calf raises, or even donkey calf raises if you have access to one.

Other than those few adjustments it looks good. Looks like you did indeed do your homework and researched DC.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. :slight_smile:

905

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:

A1)
Incline Smith Bench 11-15RP
Standing Military in Rack 12-20RP
Smith Reverse Grip Bench 12-20RP

Neutral Grip Pullowns 11-15RP
MAYBE TRY 15-20

Rack Pulls 6-9SS, 9-12SS (im assuming this is done as a drop set?)
NOPE 2 STRAIGHT SETS

B1)
BB Curl 15-30RP
DB Hammer Curl 12-20SS
Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS
Seated Leg Curl 15-30RP
Front Squat 4-8SS, widowmaker

A2)
Flat BB Bench in Rack 11-15RP
NOT NORMALLY DONE, BUT IF YOU HAVE TO TRY 15-30RP

DB Lateral Raise 12-20RP
I WOULD DO A VERTICAL PRESS RATHER THAN A LAT RAISE

Decline Skullcrushers 12-20RP

Medium Grip Chins 11-15RP
MIGHT BE HARD TO PROGRESS ON THESE AS BW INCREASES/FLUCTUATIONS ETC

Pendlay Row 11-15RP
MOST DO 1-2 STRAIGHT SETS FOR BACK THICKNESS

B2)
Seated DB Curl 15-30RP
Reverse EZ Bar Curl 10-20SS
Seated Calf Raise 10-15SS
Romanian Deadlift 10-15SS
Hack Squat 4-8, widowmaker

A3)
Incline Hammer Strength Press 12-20RP
Upright Row 11-15RP
MAYBE UP THE REPS TO 15-20 AS IT’S A “RISKIER” MOVE

Seated DB Extension 12-20RP
Wide Grip Pullup 11-15RP
AS PER CHIN UPS COMMENTS

Hex Bar Bent Over Rows 6-9SS, 9-12SS

B3)
Machine Preacher Curl 15-30RP
BB Wrist Curl 10-20SS
SWITCH THESE FOR PINWHEELS, HAMMER CURLS, ROPE CURLS, REVERSE CURLS, REVERSE PREACHERS ETC

Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS
Standing Leg Curl 15-30RP
Back Squat 4-8, widowmaker
[/quote]

FEEDBACK IN CAPS

I WOULD CONSIDER SWITCHING ALL YOUR TRICEPS TO COMPOUNDS IT’S EASIER TO MAKE CONTINUAL PROGRESS IME.

906

i would say that switching all your compounds to triceps is something you should consider, but something that you HAVE to do. you can make much better gains weight wise through the use of compounds such as cgbp or rgbp than you can with tricep pushdowns

907

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

It should work for anyone who has the dedication to follow the program, bust their ass in the gym, and bust their ass at the table.

Waylander is someone who had great success with high volume, and also seems to have had great success with DC. It’s going to take you a little while before you can truly channel all of the intensity that you are currently spreading out over several exercises for each body part into just one triple rest pause set. But your strength will probably jump big time, especially at the beginning. And once you get the hang of not holding back, you’ll be able to really give each exercise your all.

If you want to give it a shot, post up your proposed rotation and we’ll be happy to give you any tips or necessary changes that need to be made. :slight_smile:

thanks man. it does seem like when youre putting such a strong emphasis on progressive overload and intensity anyone can make progress regardless of what they normally respond to. hopefully it wont take me long to figure out the real meaning of intensity.

heres the rotation im planning on doing, most of it seems pretty standard


A1)
Incline Smith Bench 11-15RP
Standing Military in Rack 12-20RP
Smith Reverse Grip Bench 12-20RP
Neutral Grip Pullowns 11-15RP [/quote] 15-30RP, 12-20 at least. [quote]
Rack Pulls 6-9SS, 9-12SS (im assuming this is done as a drop set?) [/quote] No, 2 regular sets with 3-5 min break between. [quote]

B1)
BB Curl 15-30RP [/quote] (only if you don’t get forearm/wrist/shoulder issues from these) [quote]
DB Hammer Curl 12-20SS
Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS [/quote] 10-12SS, mind “special” protocol here. [quote]
Seated Leg Curl 15-30RP
Front Squat 4-8SS, widowmaker [/quote] Most have trouble doing a front-squat widow, so you can switch to a different exercise to do the actual widow after your heavy set. I.e. leg press or whatever. [quote]

A2)
Flat BB Bench in Rack 11-15RP
DB Lateral Raise 12-20RP [/quote] Eh
 If you have a good lateral machine, then you could use that (gripping the pads), but you may be better off with SHIPs or some such here. [quote]
Decline Skullcrushers 12-20RP [/quote] Dead Stop Extensions, PJR’s (especially elbow-friendly by comparison), Larry Scott Extensions
 And definitely 15-30RP for any extension movement.[quote]
Medium Grip Chins 11-15RP [/quote] Hard to progress on while gaining bodyweight fast
 I’d go with rack chins, HS Pulldowns or some such. [quote]
Pendlay Row 11-15RP [/quote] Uh-oh, 10-12SS OR a heavy and a light set (like on rack pulls, can be done light first, heavy second, too.)
RP only on seated rows (if even) or on HS low rows etc. Too much low-back in pendlay’s to use RP here. [quote]

B2)
Seated DB Curl 15-30RP
Reverse EZ Bar Curl 10-20SS
Seated Calf Raise 10-15SS[/quote] 10-12[quote]
Romanian Deadlift 10-15SS [/quote] Normally, hip dominant ham exercises are done at the end of the session (though I gotta say they’re hard to do after a quad widow). [quote]
Hack Squat 4-8, widowmaker

A3)
Incline Hammer Strength Press 12-20RP
Upright Row 11-15RP [/quote] 15-30RP, 2 straight sets or a different exercise
 [quote]
Seated DB Extension 12-20RP [/quote] Nah, In-Human Presses or Dead Stop Extensions (on floor or bench, bar comes down behind head to rest there, take out momentum, explode back up but stop with upper arms at an incline) or some such. [quote]
Wide Grip Pullup 11-15RP [/quote] Hard to progress on while gaining bodyweight fast and only hitting the movement once every 2 weeks (kind of the opposite compared to regular exercises)
 Rack “Chins”, HS Pulldowns or whatever. If you really want to keep them in, go 15-30 or 12-20. [quote]
Hex Bar Bent Over Rows 6-9SS, 9-12SS [/quote] Might want to use Kroc rows (1x12-25 or so) or HS low rows for one of your backthickness sessions
 You always have low-back strain there + back squats + RDL, that can easily become a problem. [quote]

B3)
Machine Preacher Curl 15-30RP
BB Wrist Curl 10-20SS [/quote] Nah, Pinwheels or some such (in fact, who doesn’t use pinwheels in a DC rotation? Madmen, that’s who. DC Training/Pinwheel Curls - YouTube ) [quote]
Standing Calf Raise 10-15SS [/quote] 10-12[quote]
Standing Leg Curl 15-30RP [/quote] Got a reverse hyper machine or some such? Or perhaps you could do improvised GH raises in the lat-pulldown station. [quote]
Back Squat 4-8, widowmaker
[/quote]

Everybody else commented already, but just in case they missed anything


Some general stuff:
-Take fridays off if you feel like shit. Gives you a “mini cruise” basically over the weekend.
-Take your time between exercises, particularly chest, delts and tris.
-Underestimate yourself on purpose at the beginning (particularly delts and tris as well as quad work). Start at the high end or above the rep range and then just keep adding weight and try your best to keep the reps up. Once you’ve “ridden” the rep range down or stalled, you can switch out the movement.

908

[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
i would say that switching all your compounds to triceps is something you should consider, but something that you HAVE to do. you can make much better gains weight wise through the use of compounds such as cgbp or rgbp than you can with tricep pushdowns[/quote]

Well, there are some extension or pullover/extension variants he can use
 Gotta give the shoulders a break every now and again and train the long-head’s main function, after all.

But I’d avoid most regular extension variants and pushdowns like the plague


909

wow, really good advice, glad i came here with my question. i think i made a tweak to just about everything you guys pointed out. just off the top of my head


-ditched BB bench for DB Bench
-no RP on pendlays
-added another compound for tri’s but kept laying dead-stop skulls.
-got rid of the pullups, will probably swap for pulldowns
-subbing wrist curls for pinwheels (thank god, i hate wrist curls)
-getting rid of bent over rows (too much lower back involvment)
-swapping laterals for smith military
-making necessary changes to rep ranges

what are HS pulldowns and HS low rows?

and just to clear a couple things up, the reason im doing standing calf raise on both B1 and B3 days is so i can alternate between that and seated calf raise. i guess this is the one aspect of my rotation that isnt “true DC” but any other calf movement would involve me having to load a machine up with a ridiculous amount of plates. maybe im just lazy but id rather not do all that work for a calf raise when i dont need to. also, i know most people here dont seem to be fans of upright rows but if done correctly they are a very effective lift for delt development and ive had a lot of success with them in the past. i do them wide grip and lift to shoulder level (like Sentoguy was talking about).

ive been taking this week off lifting and planning to start DC on monday
stoked.

910

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
wow, really good advice, glad i came here with my question. i think i made a tweak to just about everything you guys pointed out. just off the top of my head


-ditched BB bench for DB Bench
-no RP on pendlays
-added another compound for tri’s but kept laying dead-stop skulls.
-got rid of the pullups, will probably swap for pulldowns
-subbing wrist curls for pinwheels (thank god, i hate wrist curls)
-getting rid of bent over rows (too much lower back involvment)
-swapping laterals for smith military
-making necessary changes to rep ranges

what are HS pulldowns and HS low rows?

and just to clear a couple things up, the reason im doing standing calf raise on both B1 and B3 days is so i can alternate between that and seated calf raise. i guess this is the one aspect of my rotation that isnt “true DC” but any other calf movement would involve me having to load a machine up with a ridiculous amount of plates. maybe im just lazy but id rather not do all that work for a calf raise when i dont need to. also, i know most people here dont seem to be fans of upright rows but if done correctly they are a very effective lift for delt development and ive had a lot of success with them in the past. i do them wide grip and lift to shoulder level (like Sentoguy was talking about).

ive been taking this week off lifting and planning to start DC on monday
stoked. [/quote]

Good luck!

(You understand about blasting and cruising etc?)

911

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:

what are HS pulldowns and HS low rows?
[/quote]

nevermined, Hammer Strength
got it.

i actually love HS equipment and i go to a very well equipped gym that has just about every piece of HS ever made (even some really obscure stuff most people havent seen). seems like its going to make doing DC a lot easier.

912

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Good luck!

(You understand about blasting and cruising etc?)[/quote]

ya, im anticipating my first blast to be 6 weeks unless im really feeling like i could push it to 8 or so. i want to let myself get a feel for things without burning out. what do most of you guys do during your cruising phases? would it be ok to switch to more of a body part split and maybe incorporate some oly lifts as long as im not going balls to the wall?

913

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Good luck!

(You understand about blasting and cruising etc?)

ya, im anticipating my first blast to be 6 weeks unless im really feeling like i could push it to 8 or so. i want to let myself get a feel for things without burning out. what do most of you guys do during your cruising phases? would it be ok to switch to more of a body part split and maybe incorporate some oly lifts as long as im not going balls to the wall?[/quote]

Everybody does it a little differently, but generally:

Split stays the same, though you can reduce workout frequency to two per week or even take one of the two weeks off (usually, cruises last for two weeks).

No RP or any other intensity techniques

Stop short of hitting failure

You can play around with some movements you want to try out and perhaps use during your next blast or so
 You’re not interested in progressing during the cruise, it’s there to give your nervous system and body in general a break.

You could reduce meal frequency by one or so
 I tend to reduce my protein intake to 1.5 grams per lb or so as well if I feel like I’m getting sick of pounding down 550+ grams per day.

Possibly do some more prehab/rehab work than usual


(what do you want with half-assed oly lifts though?)

914

^^
got it

only reason i like to work with oly lifts is that they seem to help me with other bb’ing lifts (explosiveness, balance, etc.). by “not going balls to the wall” i didnt mean half-assed, just not going for PR’s and pushing myself too hard. but even then theyre probably taxing on my CNS, maybe a cruise isnt the right time for it.

915

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
-got rid of the pullups, will probably swap for pulldowns
[/quote]

As long as you’re gonna switch out regular pull-ups, why not give “rack chins” a try? They’re a closed chain exercise (similar to regular pull-ups), but provide a great stretch, and are one of the best back width exercises out there IMO.

Here’s a vid:

Good luck again. :slight_smile:

916

[quote]Holden Caulfield wrote:
and just to clear a couple things up, the reason im doing standing calf raise on both B1 and B3 days is so i can alternate between that and seated calf raise. i guess this is the one aspect of my rotation that isnt “true DC” but any other calf movement would involve me having to load a machine up with a ridiculous amount of plates. maybe im just lazy but id rather not do all that work for a calf raise when i dont need to. [/quote]

I think you’ll find that you won’t be able to load up the machine with the same amount of weight (at least at first) when following the DC protocol strictly. Most people tend to kind of “bounce” their calf raises and thus make good use of the achilles tendon’s elastic capabilities.

Once you start having to hold the weight in a completely stretched position for a full 15 seconds on each rep, and have to come up as far onto your toes as possible on each rep, I think you’ll find that the weight is gonna feel a hell of a lot heavier than you’re used to and you won’t have to use as much.

Of course, it’s still all about progression, so eventually you’ll be using the same weights (hopefully more), but at the beginning I don’t think you’ll have that problem.

Plus, standing calf raises don’t tend to work as well with the DC protocol as your feet tend to want to slip more than say a leg press calf raise or machine hack calf raise. So, doing one of those might also benefit you in that regard.

917

[quote]dday wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Make sure to keep your scapulae retracted throughout the entire exercise. Personally I like to keep my elbows semi-tucked (like 45 degrees from my torso) as well as this allows me to keep better form and feels more natural on my shoulder joints as well.

You might also want to concentrate on the bottom ROM of the exercises (like from the bar touching the chest to maybe 1/2-3/4 of the way up) as that is the portion of the press where the chest is most heavily stressed and the assistors (front delts and triceps) haven’t really kicked in as much yet.

Some visual examples:
Ronnie

Justin Harris:

Thanks again Sento. Today I did DB flat bench and played around with some things and believe I found a problem. Like you mentioned here, I hadn’t been keeping my scapula retracted properly and as a result my shoulders roll forward and come off the bench, this is something I guess must have happened slowly over time because I hadn’t noticed. I made a conscious effort today to really squeeze my scapula and keep my shoulders down, the result is a VERY sore chest. [/quote]

Awesome. Glad I could help. :slight_smile:

918

Last few tries on Preacher Curl I went down, went up, then went down again. Time to switch it up, I guess. My other Bicep exercises are Incline Curl and Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curl. What would you recommend?

I don’t know how much mileage I’m getting with Back Width, especially Pullups. If reps go up by one or two, but they’re not all the way chin above bar, does it count? Harder to measure progress

919

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Last few tries on Preacher Curl I went down, went up, then went down again. Time to switch it up, I guess. My other Bicep exercises are Incline Curl and Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curl. What would you recommend?

I don’t know how much mileage I’m getting with Back Width, especially Pullups. If reps go up by one or two, but they’re not all the way chin above bar, does it count? Harder to measure progress[/quote]

sounds like it might be time for a change. unless it is a sign that your blast is getting a little too long. not sure how long you’ve been going at it though. i personally like spider curls a lot, either with a bb or a db. you might also want to consider doing some cable work or ez bar curls.

920

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Last few tries on Preacher Curl I went down, went up, then went down again. Time to switch it up, I guess. My other Bicep exercises are Incline Curl and Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curl. What would you recommend?
[/quote]
-Drag Curls (curl up normally, then drag down along/close-to body with EZ bar or whatever)
-HS Plate loaded curl machine

-Seated Alt Curls
-Cable Curl variants

 [quote]
I don’t know how much mileage I’m getting with Back Width, especially Pullups. If reps go up by one or two, but they’re not all the way chin above bar, does it count? Harder to measure progress[/quote]

Chin above bar doesn’t matter for backwidth. That’s more biceps/brachialis and a bit of backthickness.
The stretch and semi-stretch parts are the ones that’ll do the trick for backwidth when the exercise is done right
 That being said, pull-ups are definitely not a favorite of mine
 I think if you want to progress fast on them in terms of reps/added weight (despite also gaining bodyweight at a good rate), then you’ll have to do them at least 3 times a week, probably 4 times
 Unless you have the right structure/attachments for them or whatever. I certainly don’t.

I prefer rack “chins” etc
 HS pulldowns should work well
 Nautilus pullover machine (yates) looks nice, but I don’t have one