DC Training Thread (Part 2)

Training Bodybuilding
741

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
CC, I recently saw you mention there were times outside of the gym where you just felt so taxed and fatigued, like a walking zombie. I have been training DC style now since February without break or rest and lately have felt myself feeling completely dazed outside of the gym, unable to focus and exhausted.

I have also been fading pretty badly at about 3/4 of the way through my workout. I also remember you mentioning something about cruising and blasting…can you elaborate on those concepts for me if you have the time?[/quote]

Uh-oh, you didn’t read the stickies :slight_smile:

A blast is your regular, balls-to-the-wall training period… For drug-free lifters it is usually around 8-12 weeks long (there is no set rule for length though. Well. Ok. Must be longer than 3 inches, of course).
During the blast, you do rest-pause and all that jazz and try to improve as much as possible, and you eat your 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.
During the blast, the nervous-system/general fatigue will accumulate and eventually cause the symptoms you described.
You will also eventually stall on multiple bodyparts/exercises in rapid succession. That doesn’t mean that you should kick them out of the rotation as you’d normally do, but that your body’s had it for now.
Joints may start to feel worse etc, less appetite…

A cruise-period is our equivalent of a de-load, but it focuses more on getting rid of that accumulated fatigue. During the cruise, you do not try to improve in weight/reps. You can try out some new movements which you’d like to incorporate into your next blast (though you don’t have to actually use them in the end…), or just do whatever the hell you want, really.
Many go a little lighter in weight, and one generally stays short of failure and does everything with 1-2 straight sets. I like to reduce volume a tad (westside originally reduced their volume during deload periods for whatever lift they deloaded, or the whole routine. They didn’t go lighter, they just did less work) by, say, training twice a week instead of 3 times and going with 2 non-failure straight-sets on everything, or even just 1 non-failure set at reduced weight…

You can also reduce the amount of meals you eat by one or so, and/or lower protein intake down to 1.5g or so per lb of bodyweight or whatever you want (just not too low imo).

That kind of thing…

Oh, and don’t go on with a blast for that many months… That’s going to get you in trouble eventually and it slows progress down to a crawl…

742

Holy crap! Now I know why I’ve avoided high rep squat sets.

Workout 2A tonight: I did split squats with back leg up for a set of 8 then a set of 20 each leg (I only got 17)… then threw up.

I was supposed to do a SS of stiff leg deadlifts to finish it off, but it didn’t happen. How in the hell would you ever be able to do deadlifts after a widowmaker? It was all I could do to drive home without getting in a wreck!

743

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
Holy crap! Now I know why I’ve avoided high rep squat sets.

Workout 2A tonight: I did split squats with back leg up for a set of 8 then a set of 20 each leg (I only got 17)… then threw up.

I was supposed to do a SS of stiff leg deadlifts to finish it off, but it didn’t happen. How in the hell would you ever be able to do deadlifts after a widowmaker? It was all I could do to drive home without getting in a wreck![/quote]

I definitely wouldn’t try to do SLDL’s after doing a unilateral widowmaker (which would mean 2 twenty rep sets). No way in hell. Generally it’s advised to pair SLDL’s with something like leg press.

744

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
Holy crap! Now I know why I’ve avoided high rep squat sets.

Workout 2A tonight: I did split squats with back leg up for a set of 8 then a set of 20 each leg (I only got 17)… then threw up.

I was supposed to do a SS of stiff leg deadlifts to finish it off, but it didn’t happen. How in the hell would you ever be able to do deadlifts after a widowmaker? It was all I could do to drive home without getting in a wreck![/quote]

Yeah, a good reason to switch to another leg press variation or hack squat in place of the unilateral quad movement. It must be absolutely brutal trying to finish 2 heavy sets for each leg then following that up with 2 widowmakers. One and one is hard enough.

745

During my workout last night I was wondering… why not start each RP set with a heavier weight, and make it a drop set?

Theoretically hitting more fast twitch fibers on the first leg of the rest-pause set…? What do you think?

746

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
During my workout last night I was wondering… why not start each RP set with a heavier weight, and make it a drop set?

Theoretically hitting more fast twitch fibers on the first leg of the rest-pause set…? What do you think?[/quote]

I think it’d make it hard to accurately record progression. I say, if you’re just starting a new blast, sure - fool around with it a little and if it works, go nuts (but I don’t think it’d be DC training if you did drop sets instead of RP sets). But if your in the middle of a blast, your progression will be ruined.

747

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
During my workout last night I was wondering… why not start each RP set with a heavier weight, and make it a drop set?

Theoretically hitting more fast twitch fibers on the first leg of the rest-pause set…? What do you think?[/quote]

if you do it, please don’t tell others you are doing dc. plus it would be hard to track with all the weights, rep ranges, what you are dropping to, etc

748

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
During my workout last night I was wondering… why not start each RP set with a heavier weight, and make it a drop set?

Theoretically hitting more fast twitch fibers on the first leg of the rest-pause set…? What do you think?[/quote]

Sure, go ahead do it. But you won’t be doing DC training.

This has been repeated ad nauseum throughout this thread and other sources of information on DC… Stick to the program as its laid out or do your own thing. If you think you’re on to the next big revelation in weight lifting, try it and see how it works for you, or stick to what has already been proven to work by hundreds-thousands of people. We don’t always need to reinvent the wheel to be effective.

749

Thanks for your response above CC. How do you all deal, psychologically with not being in the gym as often or lifting as intensely? As exhausted and shitty feeling as I’ve been, every morning I still look forward to hitting the gym and killing myself. It’s the high point of my day.

750

I suppose I try to make the most of my time while in the gym, and I’m usually busy on all other days, so it works out well. But without fail I always want to hit the gym on my off day Wednesday. Because I’m like you, the gym is usually the high point of my day.

You could possibly incorporate an extra day into your routine for core work – Rectus Abdominus, Transverse Abdominus, & External oblique – and maybe face pulls. Ask CC, Sento Guy, or dropshot about that.

751

[quote]kylec72 wrote:
I suppose I try to make the most of my time while in the gym, and I’m usually busy on all other days, so it works out well. But without fail I always want to hit the gym on my off day Wednesday. Because I’m like you, the gym is usually the high point of my day.

You could possibly incorporate an extra day into your routine for core work – Rectus Abdominus, Transverse Abdominus, & External oblique – and maybe face pulls. Ask CC, Sento Guy, or dropshot about that. [/quote]

i would say that if you were doing some core work, make it not taxing, or put it in a place in the blast where you won’t be using the core too much. for example, the day between leg press and seated rows, not the day before deads or squats or another core intensive exercise. as long as it doesn’t mess with your recovery or not allow you to go as heavy as you could because your abs are tired or sore, then go for it. face pulls are always good, maybe do it at the end of a workout as a pre-hab type of exercise. nothing crazy with it though, you don’t want to have to do a 6th crazy exercise after going through a full dc workout.

752

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
…
If you are doing only a double RP set (perhaps due to recovery issues), then might want to adjust some of your rep ranges.
[/quote]

I’m thinking of trying the double RP sets in my 3rd blast to see if I can keep progressing longer with less burning out. This sounds more appealing to me than skipping a Friday workout every once in a while for example. I know some people make good progress when training with 2 RP sets only. Do they usually go with 8-12RP or something like that? I was thinking of first keeping the rep ranges the same and see how that feels… and then maybe just let the ranges drop as I keep going heavier.

753

[quote]zenomaly wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
…
If you are doing only a double RP set (perhaps due to recovery issues), then might want to adjust some of your rep ranges.

I’m thinking of trying the double RP sets in my 3rd blast to see if I can keep progressing longer with less burning out. This sounds more appealing to me than skipping a Friday workout every once in a while for example. I know some people make good progress when training with 2 RP sets only. Do they usually go with 8-12RP or something like that? I was thinking of first keeping the rep ranges the same and see how that feels… and then maybe just let the ranges drop as I keep going heavier.[/quote]

i actually round a double rp set. what you do is the rep ranges stay the same (except for db’s) and then you just do higher reps on the individual rp sets. for example, on a 11-15rp set for incline bb, instead of 9/4/2, it might go 11/4. for db’s i run in the 11-20 range and typically get a 12/8 or 12/6 type of scheme for the double rp. if you go with just a lower rp range, then you might end up with the same problems as you did before when you were going just as heavy on a 3rp set only with a slightly higher rep range due to the 3rd rp set. feel free to hit me with a pm or something if you have questions, i’ve been training this style for the past 4-5 months or so as the 3rp would cause me to have to end blasts in about 4 weeks.

754

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
During my workout last night I was wondering… why not start each RP set with a heavier weight, and make it a drop set?

Theoretically hitting more fast twitch fibers on the first leg of the rest-pause set…? What do you think?[/quote]

All that would serve to do would be to burn you out faster. It won’t lead to faster strength gains (in fact, it will probably slow them down), won’t hit any more fast twitch fibers (I could actually explain the physiology of a drop set to you if need be, but for now just take my word that it won’t), and really won’t lead to any faster muscular gains. CT just had a thread on his forum where he basically stated that drop sets are far from ideal for building muscle/strength if you need a second opinion.

Here it is:

You can of course still do it that way if you insist, but like others said, you aren’t doing DC if you do, you are doing your own thing.

755

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Thanks for your response above CC. How do you all deal, psychologically with not being in the gym as often or lifting as intensely? As exhausted and shitty feeling as I’ve been, every morning I still look forward to hitting the gym and killing myself. It’s the high point of my day.[/quote]

Well, I don’t know about everyone else (though I can take a guess in many cases), but personally I am lifting as intensely (if not even more intensely) than I ever did on a traditional body part split. So, that’s not really an issue.

As far as not being in the gym as often, I hear you on loving to train hard and be in the gym. But, as hard as I’m working, I actually wouldn’t want to hit the gym more than I do. I feel like I got run over by a truck the next day in many cases (and not just one or two body parts, but like half my body), and actually think to myself “thank God I don’t have to hit the gym again today.”

Also, the rapid strength progression and noticeable physique changes overpower the semi obsessive compulsive desire to want to hit the gym every single day (and that’s not meant as a diss to anyone, I fully admit that I am addicted to working out and honestly am not ashamed of it and assume that I’m not the only one here who is). Results are what I’m ultimately after, and I’m getting them on this program, so that’s really all that matters to me personally.

You can however still do fasted cardio (or even just regular cardio) at the gym on your off days though, and if you feel up to it, you could do a “core” day like Kylec suggested on one of your off days. I would also agree with dropshot that you shouldn’t do it the day before you do a core intensive lift (like front squats for example, or military press) though.

756

[quote]zenomaly wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
…
If you are doing only a double RP set (perhaps due to recovery issues), then might want to adjust some of your rep ranges.

I’m thinking of trying the double RP sets in my 3rd blast to see if I can keep progressing longer with less burning out. This sounds more appealing to me than skipping a Friday workout every once in a while for example. I know some people make good progress when training with 2 RP sets only. Do they usually go with 8-12RP or something like that? I was thinking of first keeping the rep ranges the same and see how that feels… and then maybe just let the ranges drop as I keep going heavier.[/quote]

Well, an 11-15 3RP would have you starting with somewhere between a 6-8 rep max for most people. A 15-30 3RP would be somewhere between an 8-17 rep max. No reason to change the weights that you’d use for a 2RP. You would just wind up getting fewer reps due to the lack of a third RP.

So, maybe something like 9-12 and 12-25 would be good ranges to shoot for respectively.

757

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Thanks for your response above CC. How do you all deal, psychologically with not being in the gym as often or lifting as intensely? As exhausted and shitty feeling as I’ve been, every morning I still look forward to hitting the gym and killing myself. It’s the high point of my day.

Well, I don’t know about everyone else (though I can take a guess in many cases), but personally I am lifting as intensely (if not even more intensely) than I ever did on a traditional body part split. So, that’s not really an issue.

As far as not being in the gym as often, I hear you on loving to train hard and be in the gym. But, as hard as I’m working, I actually wouldn’t want to hit the gym more than I do. I feel like I got run over by a truck the next day in many cases (and not just one or two body parts, but like half my body), and actually think to myself “thank God I don’t have to hit the gym again today.”

Also, the rapid strength progression and noticeable physique changes overpower the semi obsessive compulsive desire to want to hit the gym every single day (and that’s not meant as a diss to anyone, I fully admit that I am addicted to working out and honestly am not ashamed of it and assume that I’m not the only one here who is). Results are what I’m ultimately after, and I’m getting them on this program, so that’s really all that matters to me personally.

You can however still do fasted cardio (or even just regular cardio) at the gym on your off days though, and if you feel up to it, you could do a “core” day like Kylec suggested on one of your off days. I would also agree with dropshot that you shouldn’t do it the day before you do a core intensive lift (like front squats for example, or military press) though.
[/quote]

I was actually referring to “cruising”. Not training in general.

758

I just wanted to stop in and give some thanks to you guys.

The more I read about DC and some of Dante’s (and others) “philosophies” on life in general the more I realize pretty much everyone has a ton left to learn. (I’m not doing it anytime soon, I just like reading what people who have done “it” are saying.)

You guys here, and you know who you are, are some of the most intelligent and mature posters on training around, and I just wanted to say thanks for sharing your knowledge with the likes of my indignant ass.

759

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Well, I don’t know about everyone else (though I can take a guess in many cases), but personally I am lifting as intensely (if not even more intensely) than I ever did on a traditional body part split. So, that’s not really an issue.

As far as not being in the gym as often, I hear you on loving to train hard and be in the gym. But, as hard as I’m working, I actually wouldn’t want to hit the gym more than I do. I feel like I got run over by a truck the next day in many cases (and not just one or two body parts, but like half my body), and actually think to myself “thank God I don’t have to hit the gym again today.”

[/quote]

Ditto! I have never been this sore. I know that there is an option of doing a 4 day split for DC but there is no way in hell I could lift another day. I did a 5 day split for years and never felt this sore or had this much intensity in my lifts. I love it. I haven’t hit the first cruise yet so I can’t comment on that but I know it will be hard to not lift like I have been. I still have intensity problems with failure on the leg exercises (mainly squats and SLDL) because of the last bout with exertion headache. Paranoia sets in. I think the hardest part is the protein, 450 grams. Sento and CC and crew, keep the knowledge flowing…I appreciate it.

760

[quote]Mateus wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Well, I don’t know about everyone else (though I can take a guess in many cases), but personally I am lifting as intensely (if not even more intensely) than I ever did on a traditional body part split. So, that’s not really an issue.

As far as not being in the gym as often, I hear you on loving to train hard and be in the gym. But, as hard as I’m working, I actually wouldn’t want to hit the gym more than I do. I feel like I got run over by a truck the next day in many cases (and not just one or two body parts, but like half my body), and actually think to myself “thank God I don’t have to hit the gym again today.”

Ditto! I have never been this sore. I know that there is an option of doing a 4 day split for DC but there is no way in hell I could lift another day. I did a 5 day split for years and never felt this sore or had this much intensity in my lifts. I love it. I haven’t hit the first cruise yet so I can’t comment on that but I know it will be hard to not lift like I have been. I still have intensity problems with failure on the leg exercises (mainly squats and SLDL) because of the last bout with exertion headache. Paranoia sets in. I think the hardest part is the protein, 450 grams. Sento and CC and crew, keep the knowledge flowing…I appreciate it.[/quote]

the 4 day split does offer decreased frequency of hitting the muscles though which might help those who have gotten their weights so heavy that they just cannot recover with the 2 way split