DC Training Thread (Part 2)

Training Bodybuilding
321

[quote]Vejne wrote:
CC, I suppose you right. Though I’ve never tried RP on back thickness excersises, especially in the end of the workouts it can get really hard on the forearms and bicep.

I can’t wait to make it to University… By then I’ll have 2 years more experience in lifting, and probably acces to some gym with other equipement besides bars and plates. [/quote]

It’s not even as much about it being hard on the forearms/biceps as it is about recovery though. If someone was say injured and unable to do any form of deads (which have by far the greatest potential for strength of any back thickness exercise, and are the hardest on the CNS), then they could probably get away with RP’ing things like chest supported rows.

But for someone who is trying to pile massive amounts of weight onto the bar and rip it off the floor/rack, wasting energy on RP’ing chest supported rows is only going to shorten their blasts and not really result in any improved rate of growth in the long run.

The program is set up as is because big D has tried pretty much every conceivable version and found this one to work the best for most people. Don’t try to mess with it.

322

Do you DC guys stick to the recommended 2 sets for training legs, for instance doing the deadlifts? The reason I ask is there’s nothing “special,” if you will, with deadlifts since it’s recommended for 5-8 or 9-12 SS reps. In my humble opinion, a 5x5 allows for more leg growth than 2 “plain” sets.

323

Any views on neutral db floor press as a tricep exercise - apart from the effort in getting them off the floor!

324

Prospa7, I think so. If someone claims that he’s doing DC, then he does that what’s written in the stickies of IM forum. As Sentoguy mentioned before, it’s been written because Dante experienced for years for finding the optimal split-rep numbers, and probably it works best for most of the people, who stick to the schedule…

325

[quote]prospa7 wrote:
Do you DC guys stick to the recommended 2 sets for training legs, for instance doing the deadlifts? The reason I ask is there’s nothing “special,” if you will, with deadlifts since it’s recommended for 5-8 or 9-12 SS reps. In my humble opinion, a 5x5 allows for more leg growth than 2 “plain” sets.[/quote]

I have a feeling that you didn’t read the stickies and confused back thickness with leg work, among other things.

326

[quote]plateau wrote:
Any views on neutral db floor press as a tricep exercise - apart from the effort in getting them off the floor![/quote]

You can do them if you want… There are a lot of (imo better) alternatives out there though…

Only real reason to rely on them that I can think of is equipment shortage.

They’re probably better as a PL assistance exercise, but yeah. In the end, it’s your call. Not a bad exercise, just not what I’d put into my blast considering that you get SWRGB’s, In-Human Presses, Dead Skulls, PJR’s, HS Dips, Face-Away Extensions, elbows-tucked CGP and even board presses and whatnot.

327

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
prospa7 wrote:
Do you DC guys stick to the recommended 2 sets for training legs, for instance doing the deadlifts? The reason I ask is there’s nothing “special,” if you will, with deadlifts since it’s recommended for 5-8 or 9-12 SS reps. In my humble opinion, a 5x5 allows for more leg growth than 2 “plain” sets.

I have a feeling that you didn’t read the stickies and confused back thickness with leg work, among other things.

[/quote]

lol, yeah i meant back thickness

328

[quote]prospa7 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
prospa7 wrote:
Do you DC guys stick to the recommended 2 sets for training legs, for instance doing the deadlifts? The reason I ask is there’s nothing “special,” if you will, with deadlifts since it’s recommended for 5-8 or 9-12 SS reps. In my humble opinion, a 5x5 allows for more leg growth than 2 “plain” sets.

I have a feeling that you didn’t read the stickies and confused back thickness with leg work, among other things.

lol, yeah i meant back thickness

[/quote]

Well, consider that extreme backthickness (and width) are usually the trademarks of advanced DC trainees…

And let’s be honest here. 5x5 with the same weight after 4 big exercises (all of which are rest-paused) on the 2-way? Would take way too long and you’d end up cutting your blasts short as well etc…

3x5 possibly, but really, if we’re talking about, say, 5-8 + 9-12 pm rack pulls, then both of those sets are a little like breathing-squat sets in that one usually pauses between reps later in the set to catch one’s breath… At least on the 9-12 rep set. So you’re essentially using a 6-7 RM or so, anyway, but you’re getting all your reps in faster than on 5x5 or 3x5 (higher density per time unit).

At least for intermediate to advanced trainees (beginners are better off with other routines), I don’t see how straight 5x5 could a) work with the DC template and b) top those strength and size gains people get from our standard method.
Getting a thick back is ultimately about pulling big numbers for plenty of reps (same as with every other muscle-group) with the right technique (i.e. shrugging back shoulders/retracting scapulae at the top of a rep, keeping low-back arched + abs tight etc), and as far as I can tell, DC is doing a wonderful job in exactly that department…

I’d really suggest sticking to the routine as it’s written. Look at Hanley’s progress on DC, his deadlift and squat both exploded.

Less experienced trainees likely won’t manage to keep their technique/form good on that 9-12 rep DL/rack-pull set…

Btw, you can also flip those sets around, depending on which way works better for you (5-8+9-12 or 9-12+5-8… Guess it depends on muscle-fiber dominance or some such).

329

[quote]prospa7 wrote:
Do you DC guys stick to the recommended 2 sets for training legs, for instance doing the deadlifts? The reason I ask is there’s nothing “special,” if you will, with deadlifts since it’s recommended for 5-8 or 9-12 SS reps. In my humble opinion, a 5x5 allows for more leg growth than 2 “plain” sets.[/quote]

Ummm, did I read your question right? It seems like you’re thinking that we do deadlifts for the legs, when in fact we do them as a back thickness exercise (hence the heavy prevalence of rack deadlifts).

As far as thinking that 5x5 allows for more leg growth, feel free to keep thinking/doing that. We know what works for us and many (actually most I’d say) have done some form of 5x5 in the past, so we’re also familiar with that format. We’ve come to this program after years of experience and experimentation, and we believe in the system because of it’s underlying principles along with there being many flesh and blood examples of it’s effectiveness walking around in gyms across the world.

So, if you wanna do 5x5 and not DC, then more power to ya. None of us are trying to convince you otherwise (just don’t use it with DC as C_C mentioned above), and we kindly ask that you show us the same courtesy.

330

I apologize if this has been asked before. Could anyone kindly describe how to perform an In-Human Press? I attempted to find this on IM but, was unsuccessful. Thanks in advance!

331

[quote]Gorichen wrote:
I apologize if this has been asked before. Could anyone kindly describe how to perform an In-Human Press? I attempted to find this on IM but, was unsuccessful. Thanks in advance![/quote]

it doesn’t ‘explain’ it, but does demonstrate his HS shoulder press.

(oh look, there’s sento battling more trolls ;'))

332

Hey guys, I’m trying DC for the first time, just started a few weeks ago and LOVE IT! It’s everything that’s been missing from my training for years, one problem I’m a home gym guy. While reading up on DC training over at IM I found a thread that said home gym guys shouldn’t use DC because you’ll run out of exercises but I can’t find anything that says when or why to change them?

I searched their site for hours last night looking for something that says when or why to change but cannot find a clear answer.
I don’t want to fight the system or anything but due to funds and a newborn I can’t afford a gym membership. Any idea how long I can train at home before I’m forced to give up DC or get a membership.

FYI I have a cage, smith, OLY platform, 800lbs of weight, lat pull, leg extension/curl attachment 1in & 2in adjustable DB handles and assorted misc items.

Thanks in advance for you help.

333

This will likely be posted 45 times tomorrow but it’s not posted now and it’s been over an hour since I tried the first time so I’ll do it again.

Hey guys, I’m trying DC for the first time, just started a few weeks ago and LOVE IT! It’s everything that’s been missing from my training for years, one problem I’m a home gym guy. While reading up on DC training over at IM I found a thread that said home gym guys shouldn’t use DC because you’ll run out of exercises but I can’t find anything that says when or why to change them? I searched their site for hours last night looking for something that says when or why to change but cannot find a clear answer.
I don’t want to fight the system or anything but due to funds and a newborn I can’t afford a gym membership. Any idea how long I can train at home before I’m forced to give up DC or get a membership.

FYI I have a cage, smith, OLY platform, 800lbs of weight, lat pull, leg extension/curl attachment 1in & 2in adjustable DB handles and assorted misc items.

Thanks in advance for you help.

334

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
Gorichen wrote:
I apologize if this has been asked before. Could anyone kindly describe how to perform an In-Human Press? I attempted to find this on IM but, was unsuccessful. Thanks in advance!

it doesn’t ‘explain’ it, but does demonstrate his HS shoulder press.

(oh look, there’s sento battling more trolls ;'))[/quote]

IH Presses are a form of smith close-grip press.

You can find it in the in-human quote thread on IM started by future.

Essentially, you position the bench so that you can slide your butt off the end of the bench, only your upper back/delts and low-back are on the bench… You take an armpit-wide (or as wide as necessary) grip on the bar, do the whole powerlifting setup thing (retracted scapulae and some arch and whatnot… IH didn’t mention this specifically, but it’s what you pretty much want to do on every press anyway), and bring the bar down to nipple line or wherever feels best with elbows flared (doesn’t have to be totally flared, semi will do depending your preferences).

You will press towards your feet (or try to) as well as up in order to take the shoulders largely out of the movement and activate the long-head of the tris more… And the tris in general.

Shoulders always stay on the bench, but I guess that doesn’t need to be mentioned.

If you’re working with an angled smith, position yourself so that the weight travels towards your feet (as well as up) when pressing it up.

Oh, and disengage the counterweights if it’s a counterweighted smith and you get the chance… That’s not part of the exercise, just something I’d suggest doing regardless.

335

[quote]dday wrote:
Hey guys, I’m trying DC for the first time, just started a few weeks ago and LOVE IT! It’s everything that’s been missing from my training for years, one problem I’m a home gym guy. While reading up on DC training over at IM I found a thread that said home gym guys shouldn’t use DC because you’ll run out of exercises but I can’t find anything that says when or why to change them?

I searched their site for hours last night looking for something that says when or why to change but cannot find a clear answer.
I don’t want to fight the system or anything but due to funds and a newborn I can’t afford a gym membership. Any idea how long I can train at home before I’m forced to give up DC or get a membership.

FYI I have a cage, smith, OLY platform, 800lbs of weight, lat pull, leg extension/curl attachment 1in & 2in adjustable DB handles and assorted misc items.

Thanks in advance for you help.[/quote]

You didn’t do a very thorough search, that exercise-changing is a core part of the philosophy (not to be confused with the triple rotation).

Whenever an exercise stalls, you replace it with a similar one.

General rule of thumb is to at least get +2 reps and/or a weight-increase every time you do the same exercise (i.e. every 2 weeks per exercise). If you stall or regress, or progress just slows down too much (like a rep every 2 weeks), then you switch to a different exercise…

However, if you do stall, you generally give the exercise another chance 2 weeks later before switching it out, as the reason for your lack of progress may have been a bad day or lack of food or whatever. If you don’t manage to make appreciable progress twice in a row on the same exercise, switch it out.

Example: Low Incline BB Presses, rep-range is 12-20RP
session 1 - 29520RP
session 2(2 weeks later) - 30521RP
session 3 - 31519RP
session 4 - 32517RP
session 5 - 33513RP (uh-oh, reps almost at the bottom of the range)
session 6 - 33514RP (essentially counts as stalling, only +1 rep… We only hit every exercise every 2 weeks, so that’s not good enough)
session 7 - 33517RP (second chance and it worked… Probably had some food or rest trouble or whatever previously)
session 8 - 34515RP
session 9 - 35012RP (bah)
session 10 - 35013RP
session 11 - 350*14RP (that’s it, progress has slowed down way too much… we’re replacing this exercise with, say, hammer-strength wide-incline or so)

All numbers are fictional, of course. You may be able to add 20 lbs and still get 3 more reps than last time, or you may have to work up in reps more often and you may be able to keep an exercise in the rotation for much longer or not… I just chose to make it look simple above.

336

[quote]dday wrote:
Hey guys, I’m trying DC for the first time, just started a few weeks ago and LOVE IT! It’s everything that’s been missing from my training for years, one problem I’m a home gym guy. While reading up on DC training over at IM I found a thread that said home gym guys shouldn’t use DC because you’ll run out of exercises but I can’t find anything that says when or why to change them?

I searched their site for hours last night looking for something that says when or why to change but cannot find a clear answer.
I don’t want to fight the system or anything but due to funds and a newborn I can’t afford a gym membership. Any idea how long I can train at home before I’m forced to give up DC or get a membership.

FYI I have a cage, smith, OLY platform, 800lbs of weight, lat pull, leg extension/curl attachment 1in & 2in adjustable DB handles and assorted misc items.

Thanks in advance for you help.[/quote]

As for the second part of your question…
I’d suggest a different training style. BBB or yates 3-way or 5/3/1 or Phil Hernon’s system.

You can gain a crazy amount of size on only one DC blast, but part of the magic there is to have the rigth exercises available!

If you had a smith machine, you would gain access to multiple additional delt, tri, chest, back and leg exercises… (particularly nice for delts and tris, as your ability to control the weight on free-weight exercises is going to be compromised after heavy chest training and that will force you to use less weight… Not good)

Still, especially as you get stronger (or acquire injuries) it will become more and more important to have a good range of machines and such.

Anyway, unless you’re weighing in at 250+ and your gains have slowed to a crawl, you don’t really “need” DC to keep progressing. Give one of the the other systems/routines I mentioned a try… I’ll do my best to answer questions you may have about them (in a different thread though, preferably. We have a BBB thread and a 5/3/1 thread, you can ask about the yates routine and phil hernon’s stuff in BOI).

337

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Iron Dwarf wrote:
I’m in my 6th week of DC and everything is progressing nicely… except arms. I’ve actually lost a quarter inch in my biceps measurement since last month. I’m hoping there’ll be a point where the load brings my size back up.

My guess would be loss of glycogen/constant swelling that a higher volume plan would cause you to hold if you were using one.

Have your weights increased in good form over the time? Just have faith if so, if not something might be amiss in your form/exercise selection that needs to be addressed. A little more detail could help us give you the proper advice. [/quote]

I’m getting stronger every session, form is good (Drag curls, BB curls DB Curls). But I just realized I’ve been doing low reps on arms (half of what’s prescribed). My mistake! My previous routine had me doing more volume, of course, so that does seem to be the issue here. I think sacrificing some weight for the additional reps will bring me up again. I’ve also noticed that I’m looking leaner (sharper)in the past 2 weeks, so that indicates that I need to up the food as well.

Thanks Scott!

By the way, as the weeks progress with DC, I’ve noticed I’m getting more severe DOMS for 2-3 days after workouts. Just an observation… not a problem, really.

338

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Iron Dwarf wrote:
I’m in my 6th week of DC and everything is progressing nicely… except arms. I’ve actually lost a quarter inch in my biceps measurement since last month. I’m hoping there’ll be a point where the load brings my size back up.

My guess would be loss of glycogen/constant swelling that a higher volume plan would cause you to hold if you were using one.

Have your weights increased in good form over the time? Just have faith if so, if not something might be amiss in your form/exercise selection that needs to be addressed. A little more detail could help us give you the proper advice.

I’m getting stronger every session, form is good (Drag curls, BB curls DB Curls). But I just realized I’ve been doing low reps on arms (half of what’s prescribed). My mistake! My previous routine had me doing more volume, of course, so that does seem to be the issue here. I think sacrificing some weight for the additional reps will bring me up again. I’ve also noticed that I’m looking leaner (sharper)in the past 2 weeks, so that indicates that I need to up the food as well.

Thanks Scott!

By the way, as the weeks progress with DC, I’ve noticed I’m getting more severe DOMS for 2-3 days after workouts. Just an observation… not a problem, really.

[/quote]

12/15-20RP and 15-30RP usually work better for arm exercises than 11-15 imo.

What are you doing for your tris and forearms?

Your bicep exercise selection looks like it could use some variety… Maybe One-Arm DB Preachers(12-20 or even 15-30) or incline-offset curls (15-30) would help, once you’ve stalled on your current stuff. Thing is, all your exercises are done standing and with pretty much the same ROM.

339

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

12/15-20RP and 15-30RP usually work better for arm exercises than 11-15 imo.

What are you doing for your tris and forearms?

Your bicep exercise selection looks like it could use some variety… Maybe One-Arm DB Preachers(12-20 or even 15-30) or incline-offset curls (15-30) would help, once you’ve stalled on your current stuff. Thign is, all your exercises are done standing and with pretty much the same ROM. [/quote]

Good advice, CC. For some reason I avoided one-arm-at-a-time training. I guess I wanted to keep the purity of DC, in that we do more of a compound approach.
I’ll add those suggestions once I stall on my current ones.

Triceps:
These choices are really based on what doesn’t exacerbate my tendency with tendinitis:
Close-grip Bench Press
Bench Dip
Machine PUsh-downs (wide).

Forearms:
Hammer Curl
Reverse Curl
Pinwheel Curl

Again, thanks, CC… and to all who share valuable knowledge here!

340

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

12/15-20RP and 15-30RP usually work better for arm exercises than 11-15 imo.

What are you doing for your tris and forearms?

Your bicep exercise selection looks like it could use some variety… Maybe One-Arm DB Preachers(12-20 or even 15-30) or incline-offset curls (15-30) would help, once you’ve stalled on your current stuff. Thign is, all your exercises are done standing and with pretty much the same ROM.

Good advice, CC. For some reason I avoided one-arm-at-a-time training. I guess I wanted to keep the purity of DC, in that we do more of a compound approach.
I’ll add those suggestions once I stall on my current ones.

Triceps: [/quote] You are using elbow sleeves already, right? (loving my TK’s… Been using them forever now)[quote]
These choices are really based on what doesn’t exacerbate my tendency with tendinitis:
Close-grip Bench Press [/quote] Do In-Human presses and S-Wide-RGB bother your tendonitis ? [quote]
Bench Dip
Machine PUsh-downs (wide). [/quote] Try some PJR pullover/extensions(15-30RP). No elbow strain, usually. Check that bent-arm pullover thread in the bb forum, josh described the exercise there and I added some as well, plus there’s a video (though I’d do it a little differently, as mentioned in that thread).
Also, face-away/bent-over (or whatever you call them) extensions with a rope handle shouldn’t bother the elbows and like pjr’s, they hit the long-head better than pushdowns and such and should allow for better progression (15-30RP). Check this vid by justin harris, and do 'em pretty much like he says (including that way to get extra reps at the end) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5WD07anZw