That was my point. Variety trumps training only one facet of a muscle group. To say, “that exercise is for powerlifters only and has no application to us bodybuilders under any circumstance” is foolish. Don’t isolate yourselves from lifts you may not only enjoy but may also benefit from.
[quote]Da Vinci wrote:
That was my point. Variety trumps training only one facet of a muscle group. To say, “that exercise is for powerlifters only and has no application to us bodybuilders under any circumstance” is foolish. Don’t isolate yourselves from lifts you may not only enjoy but may also benefit from.[/quote]
I agree 100% and anyone who feels differently need not respond to this thread.
Im gonna work in some of this stuff in my workout today. (I dont usually start at my full volume, or else i’ll get too sore) and then depending how it goes, i’ll be incorporating it in my plan next week.
Like I said, ive never done DB snatches for size, I have tried hang cleans, but my wrists were acting up so I ditched them. We’ll just have to see what happens.
[quote]dankid wrote:
Da Vinci wrote:
That was my point. Variety trumps training only one facet of a muscle group. To say, “that exercise is for powerlifters only and has no application to us bodybuilders under any circumstance” is foolish. Don’t isolate yourselves from lifts you may not only enjoy but may also benefit from.
I agree 100% and anyone who feels differently need not respond to this thread.
Im gonna work in some of this stuff in my workout today. (I dont usually start at my full volume, or else i’ll get too sore) and then depending how it goes, i’ll be incorporating it in my plan next week.
Like I said, ive never done DB snatches for size, I have tried hang cleans, but my wrists were acting up so I ditched them. We’ll just have to see what happens.[/quote]
as far as other excercises you might want to try, board presses for triceps gets overlooked here quite often.
[quote]dankid wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
I’m pretty sure that explosive movements aren’t mass builders anyway you look at them.
CT chimed in on this subject a while back saying that their is no concentric(I think thats what it’s called on the way down, correct me if I’m wrong) phase, the time under tension is next to none,and that you are utilizing mostly momentum to move the weight. Thus, not ideal for a mass builder anyway you look at it.
I have to commment on your post as well. You may have been misinformed, but I doubt CT was stating that they are useless for size. He WAS a former o-lifter. Also, if you have read his book, or some of his articles like “the power look” then you know that he still recomends o-lifts for people looking for size.
They are not the best method, but since you need some variety in your program, they shouldn’t be ruled out.
[/quote]
you’re right, he didn’t say they were useless, he just said they weren’t ideal. Good luck
[quote]3-5 sets of 3 Hang DB snatch
3-5 sets of 5-8 Muscle DB snatch
3 sets 10-15 Face pulls [/quote]
Yep, sorry, what you planned isn’t as stupid as what I presumed you wanted to do, though I wouldn’t recommend. No more presumptions from me 
Goodluck.
I think DB snatches help build strength and power which can translate into size gains later when training to a different protocol but with the added ability of lifting more weight
IMO
Here’s a better idea. Try it, then tell us how it goes, that’s the only way you’re gonna find out.
[quote]LUEshi wrote:
One arm DB clean and press is cool, too. I feel like I should put on a unitard and grow a handlebar mustache every time I do them, they’re so manly.[/quote]
Some handlebar mustache dudes in that clip. 
As far as the OP’s question goes, 1-arm snatches are fun, especially with a barbell. I don’t feel like they stimulate much muscle growth though. Good for explosiveness and shoulder stabilizers though.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Well if you disagree with me, you disagree with CT. And I think he knows a just a little bit more than us
Sure it will build some muscle, but it just isn’t that effective.[/quote]
I never said that explosive drills do not build muscle. You are misquoting me.
I said that explosive lifts are not OPTIMAL to build size because:
-
the time under tension of the exercise is too shot to elicit maximal growth stimulation. The lifting motion is already quick as it is (often less than a second) the actual time in which you apply muscle tension is even lower because after the initial muscular trust, momentum does most of the job.
-
Lack of a significant eccentric phase. Studies have shown that movements devoid of a true eccentric phase are less effective at stimulating growth.
-
Adequate reps scheme. Explosive movements are best used for sets of less than 6 reps. Higher than that you either have to use weights that are too light to stimulate growth (a weight that you can accelerate 6 times is much lower than a weight you can simply lift 6 times) or form will deteriorate and you will risk an injury.
Again we go back to time under tension per set… 30-60 seconds of tension is what leads to the greater overall growth (I’m not saying that protocoles outside this range are ineffective though). 6 explosive reps will last a maximum of 10-12 seconds… and that is stretching it!
That having been said… explosive lifting CAN contribute to muscle growth:
a) by improving neural efficiency and neural activation. Explosive lifting increases one’s capacity to recruit the high treshold motor units, which are the most prone to growth. This ‘‘capacity’’ will thus make every OTHER lifting performed more effective. Explosive lifting also ‘‘wakes up’’ the nervous system, which can contribute to a more focused workout.
b) ANY training method, technique or exercise that uses PROGRESSIVE overload (constantly moving up in resistance) WILL produce results.
For those reasons, explosive lifting CAN be useful to build muscle, but by itself it is not an optimal way to do so.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Well if you disagree with me, you disagree with CT. And I think he knows a just a little bit more than us
Sure it will build some muscle, but it just isn’t that effective.
I never said that explosive drills do not build muscle. You are misquoting me.
I said that explosive lifts are not OPTIMAL to build size because:
-
the time under tension of the exercise is too shot to elicit maximal growth stimulation. The lifting motion is already quick as it is (often less than a second) the actual time in which you apply muscle tension is even lower because after the initial muscular trust, momentum does most of the job.
-
Lack of a significant eccentric phase. Studies have shown that movements devoid of a true eccentric phase are less effective at stimulating growth.
-
Adequate reps scheme. Explosive movements are best used for sets of less than 6 reps. Higher than that you either have to use weights that are too light to stimulate growth (a weight that you can accelerate 6 times is much lower than a weight you can simply lift 6 times) or form will deteriorate and you will risk an injury.
Again we go back to time under tension per set… 30-60 seconds of tension is what leads to the greater overall growth (I’m not saying that protocoles outside this range are ineffective though). 6 explosive reps will last a maximum of 10-12 seconds… and that is stretching it!
That having been said… explosive lifting CAN contribute to muscle growth:
a) by improving neural efficiency and neural activation. Explosive lifting increases one’s capacity to recruit the high treshold motor units, which are the most prone to growth. This ‘‘capacity’’ will thus make every OTHER lifting performed more effective. Explosive lifting also ‘‘wakes up’’ the nervous system, which can contribute to a more focused workout.
b) ANY training method, technique or exercise that uses PROGRESSIVE overload (constantly moving up in resistance) WILL produce results.
For those reasons, explosive lifting CAN be useful to build muscle, but by itself it is not an optimal way to do so.[/quote]
CT sorry if I pissed you off for some reason, but I didn’t misquote you. I said they aren’t an optimal, excuse me, effective way to build muscle and you came to that same conclusion in your last sentence. I even listed pretty much the same reasons you did, so I don’t see where you are coming from on this one
Also CT as you mentioned in your book, building strength “primes the pump” for growth.
After incorporating DB snatches, DB muscle snatches, and face pulls into my workout today, Ive come up with two options.
OPTION A:
a) DB hang snatch 3-5 sets of 3-6
b) DB muscle snatch 2-3 sets of 6-12
c) Face pull 2-3 sets of 8-15
This is what I did today, and im definately feeling it in my traps, biceps, and rear delts. I almost never feel any pump or fatigue during face pulls, but today i was for sure.
OPTION B: (tri-sets)
a1) DB hang snatch 3-5 reps
a2) Same as a1 but other arm
a3) DB muscle snatch 6-10 reps
a4) same as a3 but other arm
a5) face pull 10-15 reps
I could see this working , and im sure depending on the rest intervals, this could be equally as well as OPTION A.
I’ll think about trying OPTION B next time and then decide which one to go with, or maybe i’ll just alternate between the two.
I just started doing DB snatches as the first exercise for shoulder day and they are without a doubt my new favorite. They are just so damn fun to do.
Also I figure it’s a good way for me to break in to Oly lifts which I’ve wanted to do for a while now
along with military press, lateral and front raises, and high rows to neck, my shoulders are growing nicely