Yeah its methylated.
Legal? No. But that doesnt mean that supp companies wont try and sell it until their caught. Most supp websites have pulled their stock though. They can get in trouble for selling it. But since supps arent regulated by the FDA a company can just put some pills in a bottle and label it and itll be sold until the govt catches on.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Yeah its methylated.
Legal? No. But that doesnt mean that supp companies wont try and sell it until their caught. Most supp websites have pulled their stock though. They can get in trouble for selling it. But since supps arent regulated by the FDA a company can just put some pills in a bottle and label it and itll be sold until the govt catches on. [/quote]
Looks like they’re trying again, unless I’m completely wrong on these
3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2
3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene
D-Aspartic Acid
Thoughts? This isn’t exactly my speciality area…
Thats a really shitty product. Not from a gains perspective but from the possible effects on the endocrine system. The first one is epistane. So that will shut down the HPTA if used long enough. And I bet theyre also selling an OTC product to use “post cycle” that will do nothing to actually restart the HPTA
the second is a progestin. similar to a birth control pill but may have anabolic properties, I dont really know. Id never touch that shit though.
The third is the drug used in “6-oxo”. Which I THINK but I may be wrong is a mild aromatase inhibitor. Completely useless as non of the above drugs will convert to estrogen. Epistane also has mild anti-aromatase properties as well.
So basically people buying this may think theyre buying a DAA supplement but are in fact buying a an anabolic designer steroid (that works pretty well actually for what it is, but does have side effects). Companies like the one marketing that are the reason why legislators are going to pass a bill to regulate the supp industry. And every single dietary supp will see a huge price increase because of that.
Good product preview, good breakdown from you as always 
You hit the nail on the head there, I sounded out this particular company about bulk DAA, and they said they had this coming in. When I saw DAA wasn’t listed first I got extremely curious, then finding out the first one was Epistane raised a few hairs…
[quote]Tim Ziegenfuss wrote:
Yes, we (Biotest) are looking into aspartic acid…
Also, 40% may not seem like a big increase, but when timed properly it may help upregulate androgen receptors. For example:
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2009 Apr;114(3-5):195-9. Epub 2009 Feb 21.
Elevated endogenous testosterone concentrations potentiate muscle androgen receptor responses to resistance exercise.
Spiering BA, Kraemer WJ, Vingren JL, Ratamess NA, Anderson JM, Armstrong LE, Nindl BC, Volek JS, H�¤kkinen K, Maresh CM.
Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, 2095 Hillside Road, Storrs, CT 06269, USA.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the influence of endogenous circulating testosterone (T) on muscle androgen receptor (AR) responses to acute resistance exercise (RE). Six healthy men (26+/-4 years; 176+/-5 cm; 75.8+/-11.4 kg) performed a knee extension exercise protocol on two occasions separated by 1-3 weeks. Rest preceded one trial (i.e., control [CON] trial) and a high-volume upper-body RE protocol designed to increase circulating T preceded the other trial (i.e., high T [HT] trial). Serial blood samples were obtained throughout each trial to determine circulating T concentrations. Biopsies of the vastus lateralis were obtained pre-RE (REST), 10-min post-RE (+10), and 180-min post-RE (+180) to determine muscle AR content. Circulating T concentrations remained stable during CON. Alternately, HT significantly (p< or =0.05) increased T concentrations above resting values (+16%). Testosterone area-under-the-time curve during HT exceeded CON by 14%. AR content remained stable from REST to +10 in both trials. Compared to the corresponding +10 value, muscle AR content at +180 tended to decrease during CON (-33%; p=0.10) but remained stable during HT (+40%; p=0.17). Muscle AR content at +180 during the HT trial exceeded the corresponding CON value. In conclusion, acute elevations in circulating T potentiated muscle AR content following RE.
Over time, I would expect an effect like that to improve training adaptations.
TZ[/quote]
Dr. Z - I’m just following up to see the status of Biotest’s testing.
I’m curious why you quoted the research on the acute effect of training on AR (2nd study). Are you guys gonna test or have you tested the acute response of this stuff?
The (1st) study you quoted about DAA showed that “the ingested D-Asp also still remains accumulated significantly in the testes 3 days after D-Asp suspension of treatment… we deduce that the persistent increase of testosterone in rat blood is due to the accumulation of D-Asp that persists leading to stimulated testosterone production.” To me that does not show the significance of the acute reponse. Is there something that leads you to believe that the acute response is significant? The methods state that blood was sampled “before treatment, after 6 days of treatment, after 12 days of treatment, and 3 days after suspension of the treatment.” I don’t see a basis to determine the significance of the acute response. Maybe you theorize otherwise. It kinda seems like creatine though, where you have to build up a certain amount.
The study does not answer any questions about how long it would be necessary to cycle off, since test levels remained high 3 days after testing (since the DAA in testes remained there for at least that long, and continued to stimulate LH and test).
Do you have any new recommendations? A penny for your thoughts. Thanks.
Happy to see there’s still a little life in this thread. I have been ultra busy and haven’t been commenting often anywhere on the site.
I have done a few guinee pig tests on myself. One with NMDA, then some time off and usage of DAA. I found that for me the positive benefits were noticable, but not phenominal. It’s a nice ‘boost’ overall. I am also taking the Elite Pro minerals every night, so the extra Zink and Magnesium can’t hurt.
For me, as part of a larger overall program it has some promise, but now I’m wondering if it wouldn’t work better only taking it every so many days. Thanks BT, you’ve got me thinking again.
After reading the thoughts of William Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold on this, I have sourced DAA powder and plan to start supplementing with 3g per day (taken first thing on an empty stomach). I will report back in 2 weeks or so. Obviously all reported data with be scientifically verified! Lol. Ok, it will be more introspective but I will come back to this thread and hopefully some of the other early users will also update their experiences.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
After reading the thoughts of William Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold on this, I have sourced DAA powder and plan to start supplementing with 3g per day (taken first thing on an empty stomach). I will report back in 2 weeks or so. Obviously all reported data with be scientifically verified! Lol. Ok, it will be more introspective but I will come back to this thread and hopefully some of the other early users will also update their experiences. [/quote]
so how’d it go?
Just started taking DAA (2 days) and have felt an immediate improvement in workout capacity. Just had a really crappy sleep though, apparently a side effect in some users, but can’t point the finger at DAA for that just yet. I’ll run a 3g a day trial and post if anyones interested.
Updates from people trying DAA out please?
Been on 3g/day for 2 weeks, feelsgoodman. Lifting and mood have been great (mostly mood but that transfers into the gym through motivation/aggression). No inkling of any negative side effects. Def worth it since it’s so cheap.
Didn’t do shit for me. Going back to Alpha Male.
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Didn’t do shit for me. Going back to Alpha Male.[/quote]
What dosage and frequency were you using?
I’m taking 5g a day, every day. Solid improvements in workout capacity, the stuff is GOOD. My libido was up too but has taken a hit the last week, could be anything though, been a bit run down at work, freakin 12 hr days… I haven’t been doing the 12 on 12 off, just taking it ED.
[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Didn’t do shit for me. Going back to Alpha Male.[/quote]
What dosage and frequency were you using?[/quote]
6g/day (3g AM 3g PM) for a month.
Mine I sort of found it stopped working in a noticeable way after just over a month or so. I was still getting better pumps in the gym but nothing else, wasn’t getting the same aggression/ libido that I felt before so going to start cycling to hopefully lower tolerance to it again.
However having said that, I think I read on a forum here that percieved results of anything that raises testosterone lessen in a short period of time. Even taking exogenous testosterone itself.
I’ve used a few DAA products, I work for a company that sold one of the first (possibly the first) and have to say it works very well. It’ll be of most use to guys in PCT (post cycle therapy) but can definitely add a decent boost to a natural trainee. Mental acuity raises within the first week, you can feel the libido (for myself at least) after week 1, I’ve run it for up to 6 weeks and the affects taper off slightly.
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Didn’t do shit for me. Going back to Alpha Male.[/quote]
lol tribulus
Apologies for never updating my progress on this. The upshot for me was that I noticed a distinct boost in libido for the first 2-3 days, it then tapered off. I continued to use off and on using various methods, i.e. first thing in the morning, workout drinks, etc, for several weeks but noted no real effects whatsoever.
Given I still have lots left, and hate wasting stuff, I have today started taking it in the mornings. Will post any obvious effects in due course.
[quote]TheBigV wrote:
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Didn’t do shit for me. Going back to Alpha Male.[/quote]
lol tribulus[/quote]
Its hit or miss, doesn’t work for everybody… same as DAA.