Periodically on the board, and often in response to a good question, you’ll get some cynical answer like "Just eat…that’s all you need to do " or “Do you think the body cares if you…” or “that’s crap; all you need to take is (fill in the blanks) and save some money”.
Now I think that a little “tough love” ain’t bad if it’s obvious that the poster needs it. However, I think that a lot of times its more aversion to cutting edge nutrition and training (which “Testosterone” is all about). I tell you; for myself, I’m always trying to “push the natural envelope” to see exactly what my body’s genetic potential in. A “picky” question may lead to that answer.
I think alot of times, peoples ego’s get in the way of helping newcomers. I am a Phd candidate and also assistant manager of a local gym. In previous years, I thought I knew everything about nutrition and training(cutting edge and otherwise). It wasn’t until about a year ago that I learned that I’m not near as smart as I thought I was. My know it all attitude probably hendered some people that were just trying to get in shape. Now, I try to listen to people and answer their questions, no matter how elementary, in the best way I can.
swoledawg: I’d like to add something to what you said. I agree with you on the “I thought I knew everything…” part. So did I. But all I was doing was taking bits and pieces from the articles in the mags without ever having sort of the “checks and balaces” I get from bouncing things off the T-Mag Staff and readers. AND I’M STILL LEARNING! What I’m aiming for is to get to that level of “accepted and credible” knowledge then KEEP LEARNING!
I stopped going to my local gym recently because the “trainers” constantly stop people in the middle of thier workout to tell them how to do their workout. None of the trainers (there are 8 that work for the gym) look like they pick up any weights at all. Even the owner and his wife look…plain. Obviously they have no intrest in training themselves, they just want everyones’ money. In fact, I found out that the “trainers” are just everyday people with “training” as their part time jobs. From the time I’ve been reading through this site I’ve realized that the “trainers” have no business “training” anyone.
I’m probably more guilty of this than anyone besides the HITers. I get along with quite a few people in the gym that I train at and talk to alot of folks about training and such, and there are these group of people that never change or get bigger, more cut, etc. They are always telling about these complex routines they’re on and muscle “dominant” days, so on and so forth. I guess what I really want to get across to people is that it doesn’t take the most complicated program to see progress. So many people seem to get lost in a see of information, techniques and ideas that they lose sight of the basics. I know a natural powerlifter at the gym, and the guy is a brick wall: 5’7 and 225. I ask him how often he switches exercises: once or twice A YEAR. He told me he just does the basics and goes for constant progression, cycle to cycle. Top it off: the guy is lifetime natural. I’ve been using the same movements for 6 months and my progress has never been better. Weird, huh? I don’t mean to berate anyone for changing their program or what have you. If I’ve ever jumped someone for it, it’s because they appear to be caught up on the details and not getting the job done. Only after a person stands back from looking at one tree can they see the entire forest. Progression is the key, not how badly such and such programs “trash” you.
If you don’t try it the simple way first, how do you know if it’s working any better when you make things more complicated? You need some sort of basis of comparison. There’s too many times I’ve heard someone say something along the lines of, “I’m going to start lifting weights. So I’m going to take T2, MD6, Methoxy-7, BCAA’s, glutamine, fish oil, l-carnitine, and creatine, and I’m going to do Ian King’s Bring the Pain with Dave Tate’s Big Bad Bench. Does this sound good?” Sounds pretty ridiculous for someone to start off this way, but that’s exactly how some people go about it. Why not just start off taking whey protein and a multivitamin, and use progressive loading, 3 sets of 8-10, with a good basic split? Sure, this is pretty “vanilla” but it gets the job done, especially for a newbie. After a while then they can try adding supplements and tweaking their routine. If something works, great! If not, ditch it. Sometimes people just sweat the details too much and they get “paralysis by analysis”. I don’t mean to sound like a hard ass when I tell someone they should just eat like a pig and lift the stupid weight, but that’s just what they need to do sometimes.
Spanky makes a good point. Most of the time, “newbies,” neophytes, etc. post these absurd questions. They don’t know their role. They’re rooks. Yet they’ll come up with all this off the wall bullshit they’ve probably spent weeks reading about, theorizing about. Funny thing is, most of this esoteric theory shit goes out the window after they do their first set of squats. Then and only then do they realize the “split training program” they read about was meant for people who have already established a training foundation.
My brother, falls into the category I criticise. He's trying, so I respect that. But sometimes he's do damn annoying. Yesterday I went home to visit the fam. WELL, my little brother tells me I should spot him while he squats. The program he downloaded from EAS said he should do 4 sets of 8 squats. I asked him, "Do you even know how to squat?" Somewhere he forgot how important that was. So instead of having him squat, I had him stand with the bar (and just the bar) on his traps, for six 60 second sets. Then I had him do 3 sets of half squats. All the sudden he tried to do some ass to the grass squats. I had to correct him. I said, "If you can't do a half squat under control, then what makes you think you should do full squats?"
Now, those of us who have been in the game for long enough can recognize those newbie questions. We can almost always tell when some geek has theorized for weeks about some program, without ever having touched a weight. So how do you reply to that? You say, "Kid, go lift some weights. Eat some protein. Then come back." Our overly educated society needs to understand, You can't teach the karma sutra to a virgin.
quite possibly some people are tired of hearing about very minor, perhaps insignificant details. for an obvious example, getting enough protein is far more important that what kind of protein one is consuming. however, if no one considered the differences between different proteins, the detrimental aspects of soy might never have been investigated. one shouldn’t let the little details dominate their program or diet, but thinking about them is not necessarily a bad thing.
Quit your whining and hit the weights boy!! Seriously though, I will admit my responses are usually on the cynical side. I do this b/c I feel that people are always searching for some amazing new workout or supplement that will get them fast results. It really is as simple as following a good diet (there are a shitload in this mag alone) and workpout intensely. I know this is very overly simplified, but if you stick to the basics (to a tee…no cheating!!!) then the results will follow.
I totally agree with what’s been said so far. The esoteric/“newbie” questions are sort of easy to spot, and getting them back to basics is what I was alluding to as “tough love”. We should always do that. But we should also remain open to the new and innovative (as long as we have the basics down). I tell you guys; if you think THIS side is bad, you should see the STEROID side. You’ll have some kid(s) training for a couple of years, on and off and haphazard ,knowing VERY little about their own nutrition, wanting you to think that they have “done everything” so that they are ready for that “first cycle”. Those guys need a LOT of “tough love”.
aaron, I assume I’m one of the HITers you are talking about but I honestly think you are wrong. I think I try to give my opinion to people who post questions. I wish you would do a search on my posts, if I am one of the HITers you are speeking of, and see what I said and in what context it was said. yea, I can get testy when I’m atacked for answering a Q I was asked, but if you look at my posts I think you will see I don’t get testy untill I am personaly atacted. as far as newbies, I think they ARE in their “place”, whether I agree w/what they say or not they are TRYING to learn, I wish everyone who slams someone for asking a question they THINK is stupid would remember the questions they asked or what they thought when they were 14-18.
Ah, now I see. Yeah, I agree entirely with your “pushing the envelope” mentality. I was one of the few (the only?) guys silly enough to try the “Protein Cycling Experiment.” (Don’t do that, by the way). Discourse is tandamount, so long as it’s informed talk, i.e. not opinion. So in the regard, I am not a cynic. I sincerely enjoy such conversation.
Some interesting stuff on this thread! Here’s my two bits:
Mike Cernovich, you weren’t the only one. I tried it too, and didn’t gain anything. But then again, I didn’t LOSE anything either. (What about you?) Makes you think…
I agree with the “thought I knew it all but didn’t” guys. Jeez. Causes intense pain in retrospect, doesn’t it? But tied into this is something about the snippy/asshole comments that are often made; personally, I probably would have gone on thinking that I knew everything (despite a stunning lack of progress) if the T-Mag staff hadn’t used some pointed sarcasm to make their arguments. So sarcasm (well placed, of course), can be constructive and beneficial. But everyone has to toe the line to make sure they don’t go off the deep end into just being assholes for the fun of it.
Finally, I think that getting picky about the details should be directly proportionate to the amount of time you've put in at the gym and in the kitchen. In other words, newbies shouldn't worry about anything other than getting in the gym on SOME kind of consistent program (Just do it!) and counting calories. Then they can take it from there as progress starts to slow down.
Char-dawg: I cycled down per the recommendation. First I halved my protein from 200, then I halved 100, then I halved 50. Amazing thing was I didn’t lose any muscle the first month. After that, I stayed on 25-30 grams of protein/day. Within 4 weeks, I had lost 1.5" on each biceps, and about five pounds solid weight. Major bummer. Then I cycled back up on my protein. No “rebound.” Irony was it took me 4 months to build my biceps back. This still has me confounded. I thought “muslce memory” would set it, but I thought wrong. I still wonder if wasting your muscles away, the way I did, somehow negates a rapid re-gain in weight. I mean, I didn’t let my biceps atrophy: I literally FED the rest of my body with them. ???
One thing I did learn ... missing a day or two of protein is NOT worth tripping out over. Hell, I went a month on low protein without any loss in size. We sometimes get crazy after going 3 hours without protein - not worth it! Once I was on a date with the girl of my dreams ... all I could think about during the date was, "I need to eat some protein." Naturally, the girl realized I wasn't paying her attention. So there was no date two. I wish I had done the PCE (for those in the know) before I majorly blew my one chance. Ah well ... such is life.