I have not tried them but, like John Meadows programs they do seem interesting. Problem for me is that I am at a point where I just want to go in and train, keeping it straight forward and simple. I do not need nor want to use bands, chains, percentages etc. I do not even like exercises that take time to set-up like hip thrusts. If I want to work my hams and/or glutes I jump on a machine or do RDL. I may do a few drop sets or pre-fatigue sets.
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I always say that there’s no need for the over complication that we see with so many people hyping their latest/greatest programs or e-books these days. I do agree that things have become much more understood by the scientific community than when BBers were training in the 1950’s, but not to the degree some would have you think.
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Lying hip thrusts (no bench) don’t take much setup.
The way Stu and I workout is quite Meadowsesque.
Of course if we ran our business that way, we’d have more money and possibly sleep worse at night -lol
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I’ve tried them. They absolutely crush you. Wouldn’t recommend it if you’re cutting. Need a pretty big surplus just to maintain.
I really liked doing the big lifts everyday. It really helped my form. But after 12 weeks I’m crushed. I’d lower the weights on the frequency lifts. Really focusing on activating and not fatiguing the muscle to much.
How have you been training in the past six months?
Meadows does bro splits. You might experience great results. 
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Been following a legs, push, pull, arms split. Sometimes I will skip arm day and just start over with legs.
One notch away from a bro split.
That’s the Meadows split.
Brutal
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Brutal workouts and brutal meals make a brutal physique.
Really? How do you set yours up?
Hello Lonnie,
Are you still using 5/3/1 progression? I’ve been doing 5/3/1 for a few months and wanted to switch focus to a more hypertrophy/bodybuilding focus. But I like the 5/3/1 progression and its been working well for me. What kind of split did you/do you use? Do you just use the original 5/3/1 progression (three sets with an amrap set at the end) or have you incorporated the leader/anchor set up? thanks.
When I did a bro split it was a four way split, training each muscle once every six days:
- chest, biceps
- legs
- off
- shoulders, triceps
- back
- off
Repeat
It’s the same split Jay Cutler, Dorian Yates, Johnny Jackson, and Tom Venuto used and recommended.
I am not on a bro split now as my fitness goals have changed considering how my life is now. For the past few months, up until a few weeks ago, I was doing the same exact split you write about here, training three days a week, and sometimes getting an arm/beach day in. Now that my daily living has changed drastically because of two month old son and drastically increased commute time, family or social events, etc., I am now resorting to a full body program done three days per week of the Chad Waterbury/Ben Bruno flavor.
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I’m not right now, no. When I did use it I would just use the regular setup you described, and deload every 2 cycles. For a variety of reasons I’m not on it now but I think it’s a good baseline to build a program around (even for body building purposes if you wanted too)
In reality the 5/3/1 protocol is really only a prescription for 3 sets per workout. And 2 of them are easy enough to be called a warmup. 95% of the content in all of the books is what to do after those 3 sets.
Having said that, Others on this board have had more experience and success than I have so I would probably poke around and ask them (teh pwnisher comes to mind)
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I’m glad to see some traffic in this thread that I started about a year ago. I can now write some more considering I was busy since the debacle of a few days ago. I wish to e-beef no further but after re-reading my initial post here, what I wrote in this thread the the bodybuilding training that that preceded it, as well as my own personal thread, it’s clear Brian did not read every post (which is understandable), as well as misinterpreting some of my posts or making lies.
Secondly, I’d like to address that I have not taken jabs at gurus. Of course one can think all sorts of behavior are low brow, but I don’t think saying a public figure looks unhealthy while not knowing their condition (healthy or unhealthy) is creepy. Of course I wouldn’t be at a social event and tell a stranger or someone close to a stranger, “Hey pal, you don’t look good,” or, “Your pal/brother/sister/whoever, look sick.” But I don’t think it’s far fetched to say a celebrity or well known person doesn’t look well. Did you ever see Bill Clinton when he looked ill? Would it be distasteful for someone to have said he doesn’t look right? I don’t think so, but perhaps someone else does, and that’s fine.
Yes, I did post pictures of Israetel, who seems like an intelligent and nice guy; after all, he does have a Phd in a related field and is a college professor, if I recall correctly. But he has spoken out about the so-called “myths of bro-splits” in a video, which actually did have some useful information (e.g., one can train some muscle groups or exercises quite often, biceps, calves, and medial delts, say). He does have a lot of muscle, is likely quite strong, but… his contest photos show him not as someone who might have needed a few more weeks for stage-ready condition, but actually months out. That’s not a dig at him, but rather it was me mentioning that perhaps people who want to look like stage-ready bodybuilders should listen to people who’ve gotten stage ready. And how would we know of the superiority of his or anyone else’s program if we can’t see their physique lean to judge how symmetrical are they.
There’s been much talk about the inferiority of bro-splits for bodybuilding, even though many of the people who peddle this notion don’t look like bodybuilders or are ignoring the fact that bro splits are how 99% of people who look like or compete as bodybuilders use them, great genes or not.
And actually, if one pays attention closely enough, he’ll notice that there are some smart alecks out there (two in particular come to mind) for whom e-jabs are hard to hold back. They’re obnoxious, insulting, arrogant, text-book smart, and don’t look the part. One might say something like, “well, they know how to get someone else jacks and ripped, but perhaps they wish not to do that for themselves or don’t have good genes, and such help makes up for their lack of personal development.” I don’t really buy this because even people with trained eyes can spot genetically ordinary people who have given bodybuilding a fair shake; it’s not like people such as Dusty Hanshaw, Cliff Wilson, Shelby Starnes, etc. have great genes, but they try damn hard and have enormous discipline.
And one doesn’t have to compete over and over again to show they know how to get stuff done. Chris Aceto, Scott Abel, Oscar Arden, and Hany Rambod do not have long track records in competing, but they looked very good when they did and they’ve gotten the job done for others.
And I never ever put down high frequency powerlifting programs and have stated I do not have experience or expertise in PL but have read a bit on PL training and noticed a pattern similar to what’s going on in the fitness industry regarding high frequency training for the big lifts and some people implying the superiority of exotic or sophisticated methods while many people have done alright or extraordinary with more traditional linear programs, some that even resemble a BB bro-split (gasp) and have the bodies to show for it.
More related to bodybuilding training: as stated over and over and over again throughout the years, ever since an old prolific poster left here: there is no 40-plus-pound noob gain! That’s the sort of gain someone can make over years of training, if they ever gain that much muscle.
Finally, I want to make it clear that people who up shredded to the bone (5-7%) in the 170’s at 5’10" might not be behemoths but they are not small, and anyone who has actually been to a natural bodybuilding show and have seen people with those stats will attest to this. And anyone who calls natural shows dieting contests, try getting those stats and let me know if you still call it that!
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One more thing: I apologize if I came across inappropriately to you.
Well, this went to shit a bit there. Meadows put out a video on splits for natties recently (he’s putting out a lot of great videos recently so go check them out). Basically, higher frequency is better, but you can only get away with so much. He recommends 2 weakest body parts like twice a week and everything else once, as a baseline. It also sounds like there really isn’t much difference in recommendations between natural and not. It’s all about individual recovery time with or without drugs.
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When you are talking about keyboard warrior experts one name comes to mind bigger than all the others:
Lyle McDonald
I know you guys are way to classy to name names, but he’s DYEL to the extreme. It got to the point where posting a pic of him on his forum would get you banned. He’s fueded with other gurus like Berkhan, Kiefer and Norton to name a few. They aren’t without their flaws… But they lift.
I hate to talk crap on McDonald because he did put out some good stuff early. RFL was very helpful and taught me macros and metabolism when I was a complete noob. But he just became bitter and snipey at anyone else who happened to sell books or programs.
He doesn’t help his own case…
It’s cool, though, he’s “brown” too.
@BrickHead I’m not sure what crawled up that dude’s pussy, but I for one am glad you post here. Your posts are always insigful.
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He has a grievance with everyone. And I think the violent ideation some people have for him is normal, but reasonable people don’t want to be imprisoned for following through, as one of the posters in that FB screenshot expressed.
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