Current Bodybuilding Training Thread 2.0

Training
626

Yep, in a way I don’t envy the kids starting out now and being bombarded with a ton of conflicting or just wrong information. I had been training for years when I found all this stuff on the internet and I still fell for a ton of it.

Exactly!

I’m 6’1". Geez, I’m thinking back now. The guy who was doing my diet (who was a national level competitor at the time and IFBB Pro now) guessed around 195, but judging of what I remember from old pictures, I seriously doubt that and wouldn’t be surprised if it was closer to 180. It’s all a guess, though, not having actually gotten into stage condition.

This is basically what I am thinking as well. I’m in much the same boat, in that I have trained for years, but much of that time has been with other focuses, other than building muscle, such as conditioning or strength. I no longer have an illusion that I will be a lean 230, with 19" arms, but I think there are definitely areas that I can bring up. One reason is that, even being in my mid 30’s and focusing on strength, my shoulders and upper back have improved a lot. There are also a lot of areas that have been neglected for a long time. If I can improve a little here and there and keep a decent BF level, than that works for me.

Hmmmmm…not hard. Did I get it right?

I just scratch my head when I hear stuff like this.

I agree. I have absolutely nothing against an upper/lower split and have done that in the past, but I have the time to train and want to maximize whatever I can in the window I have left, so a split it is. If things change in the future and I have less days in the week to train, I’d go with upper/lower or PPL.

627

Maybe I am in the minority here, but if I “just eat” “mainly clean” foods and don’t count every cal, I end up getting fat… When I am bulking, My only protein sources are chicken, fish, egg whites and protein. My only carbs are steel cut oats and brown rice BUT I have white bagels post workout. My only fats besides the minimal fats in the above foods are fish oils, olive oil, and avocado. Those foods, plus a huge variety of veggies, are my ENTIRE diet. I’m the kinda guy that used to have trouble eating enough, but I get 4500 or so cals of these foods in NO PROBLEM. Honestly I have trouble believing that natty pro’s don’t eat super clean. I know when guys are on 20 iu’s of gh, 800mg of tren and whatever else they can stay lean and have some leeway on the diet but with my minimal AAS use and for all you natties out there, I Don’t know how you stay lean and big without eating near perfectly.

Maybe that’s my genetic downfall, I gain fat very easily. I mean I have no trouble with fat gain BECAUSE of my diet being pretty much perfect, but naturally I would be fat without extreme care and constantly counting every single calorie. The plus side of this is I put on muscle at a ridiculous rate, to the point it sounds like I’m lying when I talk about my gains in a six month period. I Guess you win some and you lose some…

628

Absolutely. There are forums that I actually left (not going to drop the name) because I was harsh berated for using a high frequency and high volume split that hit each muscle group twice per week. The split was and still is as follows:

Day 1:Chest, light front and side delts

Day 2:Back, rear delts, traps, calves, forearms

Day 3:Legs, light front and side delts

Day 4:Arms, forearms, calves

I used to take a rest day and have it as a 5 day rotation, but I eliminated the rest day because I found with the amount of rest I get, the nutrition I get, the assistance I use, and my natural recovery I can recover just fine from a high volume daily routine.

The issue that had on the other forum was supposedly an upper lower split or a push pull legs would give “much better gains in size and strength” because “isolation movements are garbage” and “all you need is heavy compounds for growth”. Most ridiculous view on bodybuilding ever IMO.

That being said if you use an upper/lower or a PPL and it works well for you then all the power to you, I just like splits better FOR ME, I’m sure theres some people that do better on up/low or PPL though.

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629

On youtube, search “cyclical bulking, ben pakulski” He is an IFBB pro and he has an interesting argument for what you are suggesting, he calls it cyclical bulking.

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630

Brad will tell you that I can pretty much eat anything not nailed down, but obviously I don’t let things go too far. Still, to me it’s a game of balance and I’m very comfortable having eat what I want days and better keep an eye days. Brad on the other hand eats like a little girl most of the time (just ask his wife, we both tease him constantly -lol) and I know he’s still coming to terms that he doesn’t need to be 100% all the time just to look better than 99% of the population. It makes sense though, as anyone growing up reading the muscle rags, hearing the IFBB Pros make it sound like they’re doing something soooo complicated and taxing, and then getting onstage, looking like a BBer, and then seeing the insane level of conditioning slowly fade… it can really freak you out as you find your happy balance.

S

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631

I think it’s very individual. I was naturally very lean before I started training and trying to put on size. Even now, I don’t have much of an appetite and can easily go 3/4 of the day without eating. Because of that, I need to have some not so clean food just to get the calories in. Even 3500 involves planning head or I’ll find myself 1000 short before bed. 4500 worth of clean food would be some serious eating for me.

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632

Don’t you feel like you would have better results eating the most optimum foods for your calorie requirements? I’m not criticizing you but I take your opinion’s very seriously so I am really wondering your answer. For example, look at the list of foods that I eat in my last post in this thread. When I’m am bulking near 5k cals those foods are literally ALL I eat with 0 cheat meals the whole bulk, and I don’t mind it at all. Do you feel that, assuming you still hit your macros, you would get only a little bit better results eating ONLY perfectly “clean” foods like I listed and the results would be so minimally better that you don’t find it worth it? OR are you telling me that there is no benefit to eating that clean and I may as well enjoy more variety? For me, I believe its worth it even if my gains are 2% better than they would be otherwise. Again, not trying to criticize what you say, its just your opinion matters a lot to me so I am very anxious to know exactly your thoughts on this.

634

When not cutting, I have two rules:
1- Make sure I get enough quality foods to support improvement every single day.
2- Make sure I eat anything else afterward that I most likely won’t be able to enjoy when I’m cutting.

It’s more of an effort to put progress as the priority, but sanity as a close second consideration.

With certain clients though, not everyone has two stomachs like I do, so there will be times when you need a certain amount of “not-clean” foods to hit certain #s for the day. I can tell you from experience that getting 350+g of carbs a day from all oats, whole wheat bread and brown rice is not going to be the most fun experience. Hence the confused look from my old co-workers when I’d have lunch consisting of a chicken breast, and an entire box of fat-free carrot cake to ensure that I got all my carbs in within making myself feel too bloated.

S

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635

I see, I guess I’m a control freak. My last bulk my first meal was1 cup brown rice 1.5 cup egg whites, meal 2 was post workout shake and 2 white bagels, meal 3 and 4 were both same as meal 1, and that was my 580 carbs for the day in the first 4 meals, then the next 4 were protein and fat. I like to have the same routine daily (since I have no rest days), I find it easier to keep on track that way! I guess everyone has to do things differently!

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636

So after weighing myself today and comparing myself to my notes, I realized that I have dropped 11lb in 15 days. I lost the first 4 lb in 48 hours, so I am considering that “Water/carb weight”, so more like 7 or less lb of fat. This seems like I am losing weight too fast. However, my strength has INCREASED during the 15 days of this cut, and I really don’t think I’ve lost any muscle at all. Thoughts guys??

637

how often do you weigh yourself? And are the weights taken before your first meal?

638

I weigh every single morning within 30min of waking up after going to the bathroom before ingesting everything including water; also before my fasted cardio. I keep a very detailed training and food log which includes my daily weight since I started working out again.

639

I also keep track of what foods make me hold more water, look more full, look flat, how much carbs it takes me to spill over, basically track everything possible. I am very ocd and I like to control every single variable, and I think all my data will help me more and more as the years progress especially when I start competing and doing true preps.

640

I am extremely impressed with my progress in the last 15 days. This is why I say cyclical bulking can work well. While its not what I’m doing right now, think about this… I bulked for 7 weeks or so and added just under 28 lbs. Now I have cut for 15 days and lost 11 lbs, and I am a little lower bodyfat then when I STARTED my bulk. So that’s 17lb progress in 7 weeks of bulk and 2 weeks of cut and back to starting BF%. Obviously those aren’t typical results, as I just started working out again recently and have crazy muscle memory and am on AAS. Does show though that cyclical bulking isn’t all “Spinning wheels” as people may think. I am doing a long term cut though, and will resume cyclical bulking when I hit 8% bf.

641

Do you have some progress flicks with dates?

642

Unfortunately no, I Don’t even have a single picture of myself except a blurry headshot, I don’t own a cell phone or camera, and my webcam is so low definition that you cant even tell I have abs if I try to do a body shot, and I have full not blurry at all 6pack. I tried yesterday night again its useless.

643

I enjoy just having a home phone and not a cell phone, but I’m hoping to splurge on a camera soon! I refuse to take money out of my HGH fund though!

644

I’ve seen my own weight fluctuate 4 lbs over the course of a single day, but this is why I track client’s weights so meticulously; there are too many variables that can affect what the scale says but don’t always translate into the mirror.

I’d be curious to view a breakdown of the last few weeks’ daily readings, and take note of what your carb, sodium, and water intake (and yes, even bathroom schedule in some instances!) factors in. There was an old client I worked with who excitedly told me that he had lost 8 lbs his first week on the amazing diet I had given him. Obviously there’s no way any diet is going to account for a 28,000 calorie deficit in a single week (3500 x 8), which at the end of the day, everyone must adhere to the energy equation no matter their approach. The point is that he didn’t weigh what he thought he weighed. Too many people eat tons thinking they need to maintain a certain scale reading.

There was an older poster on this very site who proudly, and often bragged that if he missed a single meal, he would lose like 5 lb of weight that very day. When I pointed out that it was a “false weight” if he was relying on digested food moving through his digestive system on its way to the toilet to brag about his body composition, he wasn’t too happy with the pretty obviously realization -lol.

S

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645

Yeah, I understand my actual loss is probably around 1/3 of the weight I have lost, nothing wrong with looking at the actual number and feeling good about it :slight_smile:

I can post a breakdown of my calories and weight every day since I started the cut if you’d like?I don’t track sodium or water but I Can post carb intake daily also.

My water and sodium are exactly the same each day as I eat EXACTLY the same thing each and every day down to the gram.

Because I eat exactly the same things, in the exact same order, and at the exact same times, my weight doesn’t seem to fluctuate like it used to. For example it has only gone up from the day before twice during my cut and always on my “higher carb day”

The only difference on higher carb day which is 1/5 - 1/7 day depending how I feel is an extra cup of brown rice.

646

Oh for the love of god, give it a rest already, will you?
It’s getting ridiculous how you preach a very basic bro-split like the be all end all of bodybuilding-training.
Whilst ridiculing guys like Dante, Israetel etc, and their methods of training. Whilst they both habe made insane results for themselves and hundreds of clients probably thousands.

I get it, you won a few contests. No wait, you won one. One that requires a whopping 20kgs of muscle on your frame to win. And you won the contest after , what, a year of bodybuilding training? Using a bro-split, right? Like every succesful bb from ever to ever? Right? And different methods are less practical for various reasons stated in numerous earlier posts.
Alright well, reality check.
#1 everything novel works. Probably for alot longer than most peoples attentionspan. Not forever though, not even the mighty bro-splits.

#2 you won a contest. A dieting contest. Whoopiidoo. Not a bad credit, your worked your ass (read your prep thread) and earned it.

#3 you quit after your first and only show? And now you think you have credentials to tell other ppl busting their ass off for years, how to train and how bro splits are superior to other intelligent training methods?

Note: I Even thin somewhere you put down a REAL pro like john meadows, not being good enough? REALLY???

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is.

Bro splits, works.
Dc training works.
Mountaindog training works.
HFT works.

Untill a point.

Untill it doesn’t. And you stall, and you need to figure out different methods to keep progressing (see: EVERY fucking advanced lifter, that didnt quit after their first contest.)

I understand perfectly the reasoning for brosplits, and they are sound, untill a point. It could be conpared to something like starting strength for powerlifting? It’ll give you an awesome base. Other will thrive further on it and others less far.

But, your post are like if someone totally new would go on 531, make great gains, and then start putting down training systems like westside/Sheiko/whatever as inferior after winning one lightweight contest.

Like… REALLY?
I GET IT, YOU ARE FRIENDS WITH BODYBUILDERS. AND YOU MAKE A LITTLE RADIOSHOW TOO. AWESOME. Keep up with it, but stop talking shit about guya actually living the life on levels you will never achieve. Mainly cause you quit.

End of rant. /Mic drop