CT, I assume you are out in Colorado and, hopefully, some new material will be springing forth from your keyboard when you return to Quebec City.
@CT:
So, to me, that’s a textbook high pull. Even given the amount of weight, it doesn’t look like form breaks down at all.
When you look at that video again, do you see anything you would change?
I can’t - but I figured you see things in form and technique that we don’t.
Cheers,
M
[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
@CT:
So, to me, that’s a textbook high pull. Even given the amount of weight, it doesn’t look like form breaks down at all.
When you look at that video again, do you see anything you would change?
I can’t - but I figured you see things in form and technique that we don’t.
Cheers,
M[/quote]
I was actually surprised at how good the form was. In my recollection, 180kg didn’t go up that well. I discussed this with Tim, normally I tend to “hang with the pull”, meaning that I stay in the fully extended position for a fraction of a second before bringing my heel back to the floor. This is probably why in the past my high pull strength didn’t transfer well to full snatching (hanging with the pull instead of being fast under the bar).
BUT staying with the pull gave me the ILLUSION that I was pulling higher where in reality I wasn’t. With that 180kg I didn’t hang with the pull, as soon as I reach full extension I bring the heels back to the floor. Similar to a Panda/chinese pull without the knee bend. Because I didn’t hang with the pull it gave me the impression that I didn’t pull the bar high enough, but after watching the video, the technique is fairly textbook and according to Tim who has watched all my reps, 180kg was pulled the same height as all other fairly heavy lifts.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I was actually surprised at how good the form was. In my recollection, 180kg didn’t go up that well. I discussed this with Tim, normally I tend to “hang with the pull”, meaning that I stay in the fully extended position for a fraction of a second before bringing my heel back to the floor. This is probably why in the past my high pull strength didn’t transfer well to full snatching (hanging with the pull instead of being fast under the bar).
BUT staying with the pull gave me the ILLUSION that I was pulling higher where in reality I wasn’t. With that 180kg I didn’t hang with the pull, as soon as I reach full extension I bring the heels back to the floor. Similar to a Panda/chinese pull without the knee bend. Because I didn’t hang with the pull it gave me the impression that I didn’t pull the bar high enough, but after watching the video, the technique is fairly textbook and according to Tim who has watched all my reps, 180kg was pulled the same height as all other fairly heavy lifts.[/quote]
This is exactly what I needed to see & hear. When I’ve been reaching my 1-2RM lifts my technique feels more like a Chinese High Pull but without the knee bend. I thought that was wrong, but seemingly not… so I’m happy 
[quote]health4ni wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I was actually surprised at how good the form was. In my recollection, 180kg didn’t go up that well. I discussed this with Tim, normally I tend to “hang with the pull”, meaning that I stay in the fully extended position for a fraction of a second before bringing my heel back to the floor. This is probably why in the past my high pull strength didn’t transfer well to full snatching (hanging with the pull instead of being fast under the bar).
BUT staying with the pull gave me the ILLUSION that I was pulling higher where in reality I wasn’t. With that 180kg I didn’t hang with the pull, as soon as I reach full extension I bring the heels back to the floor. Similar to a Panda/chinese pull without the knee bend. Because I didn’t hang with the pull it gave me the impression that I didn’t pull the bar high enough, but after watching the video, the technique is fairly textbook and according to Tim who has watched all my reps, 180kg was pulled the same height as all other fairly heavy lifts.[/quote]
This is exactly what I needed to see & hear. When I’ve been reaching my 1-2RM lifts my technique feels more like a Chinese High Pull but without the knee bend. I thought that was wrong, but seemingly not… so I’m happy
[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing regarding Chinese pulls. I’d had a tendency to float with the bar as well and once I started basically trying to do what I considered a “shallow” Chinese pull, meaning that I got back onto my heels quickly and with a very slight dip in the knees like what CT does in the video, my 1RM shot up by about 30lbs or so.
That’s why I wanted to see CT doing some Chinese pulls as well.
That’s up there plenty high. If only you could turn it over and get under it…
That’s not a criticism - just pointing out how awesome the lift was.
That’s the story of my life. According to my coach, I can pull stuff a mile high but I’m just too scared to get under it.
Great pull Christian! I saw you write on Facebook that you’re previous best snatch grip high pull was something like 140kg, so that’s crazy!
Your video gave me a push to try this exercise out myself. It felt really good, but it didn’t feel entirely coordinated and I don’t think I was doing it quite right (I felt like I was pulling too much with my arms and not getting enough hip drive). Like any new exercise though, I’m sure a lot of it is just practice.
Quick question: I watched an instructional video you did a year or so ago where you had the guy doing it from the hang, whereas here you’re doing off benches from just above the knee. When first learning the exercise, would you recommend learning from the hang or from blocks, benches, pins, or something similar? Thanks!
[quote]domcib wrote:
[quote]sput79 wrote:
@Jppage: those are the exact ones I use and I just ordered and received a back up pair just in case [/quote]
i see that there was the tail of the strap hanging. how many turns around the bar is sufficient?
i never like straps because it always took so long to wrap the strap completely around the bar, with turn after turn. then, i could hardly ever get both sides balanced.
thanks
[/quote]
You should try the Sew-Easy straps from Ironmind. They only go around once and as the name implies, they’re already sewn on the ends into a loop. Great straps.
[quote]Ben Bruno wrote:
Great pull Christian! I saw you write on Facebook that you’re previous best snatch grip high pull was something like 140kg, so that’s crazy!
Your video gave me a push to try this exercise out myself. It felt really good, but it didn’t feel entirely coordinated and I don’t think I was doing it quite right (I felt like I was pulling too much with my arms and not getting enough hip drive). Like any new exercise though, I’m sure a lot of it is just practice.
Quick question: I watched an instructional video you did a year or so ago where you had the guy doing it from the hang, whereas here you’re doing off benches from just above the knee. When first learning the exercise, would you recommend learning from the hang or from blocks, benches, pins, or something similar? Thanks! [/quote]
I like to start off from blocks because it allows someone new to the movement to set-up perfectly before doing the rep. From the hang, a lot of beginners will tend to shift the weight forward.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
@CT Does this mean that with your current strenght leveles your could potentially snatch 180kg?[/quote]
No, I’d have to create a tad more momentum and be quick under the bar, which I’m currently working on. A 180kg high pull like that from my experience, indicate the strength levels to do about a 145kg snatch if one was efficient under the bar (my lifetime best is 142.5 so it’s not that far off). But for maximum transfer I’d have to be able to do that pull without straps.
And again, elite lifters are at that level not because they pull high, but because they are fast under the bar. [/quote]
I am a bit confused, I tought that you mentioned that the ratio between snatch grip high pulls and power snataches should be 1 to 1 (high pull=powersnatch). But this sounds more like snacth=100% and high pull=125%
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
@CT Does this mean that with your current strenght leveles your could potentially snatch 180kg?[/quote]
No, I’d have to create a tad more momentum and be quick under the bar, which I’m currently working on. A 180kg high pull like that from my experience, indicate the strength levels to do about a 145kg snatch if one was efficient under the bar (my lifetime best is 142.5 so it’s not that far off). But for maximum transfer I’d have to be able to do that pull without straps.
And again, elite lifters are at that level not because they pull high, but because they are fast under the bar. [/quote]
I am a bit confused, I tought that you mentioned that the ratio between snatch grip high pulls and power snataches should be 1 to 1 (high pull=powersnatch). But this sounds more like snacth=100% and high pull=125%
[/quote]
High pulls are about 120-130% of the snatch (not power snatch)… well the range can vary depending on technical efficiency. It can be from 100 up to 140%. I have very technically efficient, but weaker, female lifters who can snatch more than they can high pull and most lifters more weight when they pull than they can snatch, especially power snatch (a power snatchis about 85% of a full snatch).
But more importantly, and this is important, ratios are just averages found over time (mostly in Russian litterature as well as chinese coaching) as with all averages, results are rarely AT the average, there is a wide variation.
For example, according to the litterature one should clean 70% of his back squat. A strongman at the gym (Canada’s strongest man and WSM finalist) back squats 880lbs (no suit, full squat) and he “only” cleans 400lbs… still a solid lift, but way below the 70% ratio (45%). And even if he had perfect technique he still couldn’t clean 70% of his squat since that would but him about 40lbs above the world record.
Ratios are just observations based on the average of all analyzed lifters (which, when done in the former soviet union was over 100 000).
So you cannot say “I high pull 200lbs so I can power snatch that weight”, there is a lot more than that involved.
Thanks Christian. I’ll try doing them off benches or boxes. I look forward to trying them more, though after seeing you manhandle 180kg I feel like a massive wuss compared to you
CT, not triying to create conflict but once you mentioned this on the live spill:
“POWER CLEAN VS. HIGH PULL:
I use less weight for a properly done high pull than a power clean. Sure you can do a “kinda high pullish” movement with as much weight or more than you power clean, but it will not be high enough to get all the muscle-building benefits. My high pull is about 90-100% of my power snatch, so about 75-80% of my clean. But start much lighter at first, it is not the same dynamic and it is actually hard-ish to learn.”
Could you explain why the change on the target weight recommendation?
Sorry for the trolling
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
@CT Does this mean that with your current strenght leveles your could potentially snatch 180kg?[/quote]
No, I’d have to create a tad more momentum and be quick under the bar, which I’m currently working on. A 180kg high pull like that from my experience, indicate the strength levels to do about a 145kg snatch if one was efficient under the bar (my lifetime best is 142.5 so it’s not that far off). But for maximum transfer I’d have to be able to do that pull without straps.
And again, elite lifters are at that level not because they pull high, but because they are fast under the bar. [/quote]
I am a bit confused, I tought that you mentioned that the ratio between snatch grip high pulls and power snataches should be 1 to 1 (high pull=powersnatch). But this sounds more like snacth=100% and high pull=125%
[/quote]
High pulls are about 120-130% of the snatch (not power snatch)… well the range can vary depending on technical efficiency. It can be from 100 up to 140%. I have very technically efficient, but weaker, female lifters who can snatch more than they can high pull and most lifters more weight when they pull than they can snatch, especially power snatch (a power snatchis about 85% of a full snatch).
But more importantly, and this is important, ratios are just averages found over time (mostly in Russian litterature as well as chinese coaching) as with all averages, results are rarely AT the average, there is a wide variation.
For example, according to the litterature one should clean 70% of his back squat. A strongman at the gym (Canada’s strongest man and WSM finalist) back squats 880lbs (no suit, full squat) and he “only” cleans 400lbs… still a solid lift, but way below the 70% ratio (45%). And even if he had perfect technique he still couldn’t clean 70% of his squat since that would but him about 40lbs above the world record.
Ratios are just observations based on the average of all analyzed lifters (which, when done in the former soviet union was over 100 000).
So you cannot say “I high pull 200lbs so I can power snatch that weight”, there is a lot more than that involved.[/quote]
Lifting the bar is the easy part, the hard part is catching it (or rather lifting the bar in such a manner as to be able to catch it and complete the movement). As for the discussion on relative percentages of pulls to full lifts, I’d agree that they shouldn’t be used as more than rough guidelines, if used at all (though my opinion really doesn’t carry as much weight). As a random example I’d like to point out there’s video of Lu Xiaojun snatch pulling 180kg for a double a few days out from his Olympic victory in London where he snatched a world record 175kg at a bodyweight of 77kg. I could post the video but I don’t want to hijack the thread from CT’s insane display of power.
[quote]Leo Solis wrote:
CT, not triying to create conflict but once you mentioned this on the live spill:
“POWER CLEAN VS. HIGH PULL:
I use less weight for a properly done high pull than a power clean. Sure you can do a “kinda high pullish” movement with as much weight or more than you power clean, but it will not be high enough to get all the muscle-building benefits. My high pull is about 90-100% of my power snatch, so about 75-80% of my clean. But start much lighter at first, it is not the same dynamic and it is actually hard-ish to learn.”
Could you explain why the change on the target weight recommendation?
Sorry for the trolling
[/quote]
To catch a power clean you only need to bring it to sternum height, which is essentially where you pull a high pull) whereas in the power snatch (not squat snatch) you need to pull it much higher for the full lift than for the pull. If anything, a snatch-grip high pull is pulled pretty much the same height required to do a power clean and in most people who are reasonably skilled at both the power snatch and power clean, there is about a 20% difference between both lifts.
Jesus…
Well dammit. Looks like i’m going to have to take it up a notch to match you. That’s a helluva pull, great form! …405 is my new goal!!
If you have time i would like to get your advice on how to get my hang power snatch to the next level, i will start a new thread so as not to derail this beast demonstartion!
That explosiveness… just superhuman
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