Crossfit Football

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]Welbourn wrote:

Have you ever played football? Been an 18 play drive? Had to run the ball 12 times in row? That will tax you anaerobic-lactic energy system. When you train for football you to attack all 3 energy systems, as football will tax all 3.
[/quote]
Here are my answers:
Yes.
Yes.
No.
(note that all three of these are irrelevant as you can play a sport and still not have the slightest clue how to train for it).
As for your comments about energy systems, I invite you to go to elitefts.com and read everything by “The Thinker” and from “Performance Training Center”.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
Why would be row? Maybe to save the pounding off of the joints.
[/quote]
because running on grass is all that hard?

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
And have you every used a C2 rower? It is not fun and very hard. The workouts are designed to tap all 3 energy systems. Many of the workouts mimic the time constraints of Football, and many go outside of it to push the limits of the players.
[/quote]
How long does it take to row 250m? I guess if your players ever get in a play where they run the length of the field 5 times they’ll be able to handle it. You got me there. I have a little news flash for you: just because something is hard doesn’t make it effective.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
Quarters are played in 15 mins…most of the workouts last less than 15 mins so they fit perfectly with in the needs of a football player.
[/quote]
Maybe I’m a little crazy here, but doesn’t a game have 4 quarters? I would think you would want the workouts to be somewhat longer than 1/4 the length of the competitive event.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
When we decided to not rest and just hammer the workouts it created better work capacity over the course of the game.
[/quote] And you detracted from developing the proper energy systems.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
How man pull ups can a 300 lbs football player do? I can do 23 strict and 36 kipping.
[/quote] Good for you.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
As for the percentages I do these workouts, if you want to get strong then you have to push the boundaries of what is possible. Try to squatting 3x10 at 80 % plus and shit gets religious, Jesus might stop you to ask if he can work in.
[/quote] If you can do 3x10, chances are it wasn’t with 80%. Particularly with fast-twitch dominant athletes.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
Want to get strong lift heavy weights for lots of reps.
[/quote] Why aren’t you doing this in the WOD. Why throw in something like intense rowing? That will only detract from the intensity that can be used with the weights.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
There are thousands of people doing these workouts and they have been for months.
[/quote] That is a shame.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
I get the emails daily from individuals and teams that are crushing it.
[/quote]I’m sure they have great GPP.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
Dont fear what you dont know or is different.
[/quote] Okay, I won’t.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
Let me hear your qualifications for knowing what works for football.[/quote]While I’ve actually read something about training athletes, let me be clear, I don’t consider myself qualified to train people in football, but it doesn’t take an expert to recognize crap.
I can’t design a car either, but I know the rusty piece of shit in my neighbor’s driveway isn’t a “dope ride”.

[quote]Welbourn wrote: Mine are pretty good as 9 year starter in the NFL.
[/quote] Jermaine O’Neal has been an NBA all-star several times and he still feels bicep curls are the key to basketball strength. Baron Davis endorses “Air Alert”. The list of pro athletes (if you actually are one) peddling garbage is pretty much endless.

[quote]Welbourn wrote:
I am here because I read T-Nation daily and the enjoy the info and the post articles from it because they make sense.

So lets here the questions or if you have some bashing comments lets here what the keyboard samurais got to say.

John
[/quote]
What motion studies have you performed in order to fully document the movements of each position within a football game?
How do you differentiate between the physical requirements of different positions, or do you truely believe that a WR and an OL have the same training requirements and should be focusing on the same things?
How do you incorporate the specific stresses of a player’s practice into planning when you simply post a generic in-season routine for the entire world?
How do you reconcile the idea of hard intervals lasting over 1 minute in length with the length of a typical football play being 5 seconds?
Why do you insist on only doing GPP work in a program that is supposed to be football specific?
Why do you do speed work with incomplete recovery?
What type of periodization are you following? Is it the same for beginners as it is for elite athletes in your program?
How can you in good concience not simply direct people to defrancostraining.com?

one more:
How do you reconcile the comments here:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=61049&tid=4
with what you are doing? Specifically the last paragraph.

22

I feel that crossfit football also doesn’t train the correct energy systems for the game. Especially lineman…look at picture of guys doing crossfit stuff, do we want defensive and offensive linemen looking like that. No! we want big ass neanderthal looking guys.

23

Wow. Just wow.

24

Why do people always bring up anything with Crossfit and expect the responses to change? I say, try it, if it works for you, cool beans. If it doesn’t work, don’t do it? The only thing I’m questionable on is the longevity of joints in-season with all the prescribed overhead movements, as linemen’s wrists/elbows/shoulders take quite a beating in normal practice.

Stay classy San Diego.

25

Don’t get me wrong…i believe crossfit is great for general fitness, and for people out their who want a challenge in their workouts. People are drawn to it because of the competitiveness it has with themselves and others that participate. Now is it best for sports? I wouldn’t agree.

Aloha

26

Don’t get me wrong…i believe crossfit is great for general fitness, and for people out their who want a challenge in their workouts. People are drawn to it because of the competitiveness it has with themselves and others that participate. Now is it best for sports? I wouldn’t agree.

Aloha

27

[quote]D-Nasty wrote:
I feel that crossfit football also doesn’t train the correct energy systems for the game. Especially lineman…look at picture of guys doing crossfit stuff, do we want defensive and offensive linemen looking like that. No! we want big ass neanderthal looking guys.[/quote]

That is only a matter of drugs…

28

well i mean it says on the site that the system is superior for football…

that deserves questioning.

plus im still waiting for his reply’s to all of the other questions…

peace

29

Mr. Welbourne, I would like to say that you have a good program, but it may be to advanced for someone like me who is trying to become quicker, not more condititoned-our coach takes care of that. This program might be a great thing for pro guys such as yourself and maybe even college guys, but for people like me, it doesnt help. I am trying to get faster, and quicker with more coordintation. I can endure a 10 play drive and still keep going, I just need to get more speed. Ill bet the OP is in my shoes also.

30

I haven’t played college or pro football, but I’ve never seen anybody outside of some really fat people who weren’t in shape for the first game just from practice. I doubt that those fat people would have the motivation to do a program geared toward conditioning, anyway. If I became more advanced my opinion might change, but I think the effectiveness of an off-season football program is determined by how well it improves speed, size/strength, and quickness. I don’t think conditioning should be so much of an issue, especially early in the off season.

31

i was under the impression that John would answer the samurai questions…

this thread is completely anti-climactic…

this fucking sucks, unless hes banging some of those hot crossfit chicks, then this is understandable.

HELLO??

32

[quote]adarqui wrote:
So lets here the questions or if you have some bashing comments lets here what the keyboard samurais got to say.

i was under the impression that John would answer the samurai questions…

this thread is completely anti-climactic…

this fucking sucks, unless hes banging some of those hot crossfit chicks, then this is understandable.

HELLO??[/quote]

Agree. Maybe someone should just start a thread of hot crossfit chicks.

33

[quote]D-Nasty wrote:
Agree. Maybe someone should just start a thread of hot crossfit chicks.[/quote]

I was just thinking the same thing. HE is most probably laughing at us getting heated while he is letting them do the crossfit Snake ride circuit…

34

I’m not a HIT advocate, but Arthur Jones always said, "If you want to find out the best way to train a race horse, you don’t ask the horse.

35

While something like DeFranco’s is more proven, the conditioning workouts definitely could be used in programs. The workouts posted on the crossfit mainsite are merely an example and could be put together in a number of different ways. I use a format based on defrancos along with crossfit conditioning workouts which have worked amazingly well. I’m sure the football program is the same way, merely an example of what could be done and the mixed modal conditioning could be used in a number of different ways.