I’ve always questioned whether or not CrossFit created a balanced physique. But I also “grew up” on a bodybuilder’s split that always did like six exercises every time I trained back.
Am I just ignorantly paranoid? Is the pulling in CrossFit enough for a balanced appearance and balanced shoulders?
I also question things like 5/3/1 for this and usually add to it…again, paranoia.
It’s all dependent on who’s programming the workouts. I’m sure there’s a Crossfit coach out there somewhere programming jerks and presses and HSPU every day for high volume without any pull ups, strict accessory work, or rower…just like there are plenty of self proclaimed bodybuilders out there training chest, shoulders, and arms 6x/week and nothing else.
With the amount of bar and ring pulls that most crossfitters are getting in their training, the big concern is less about balancing push/pull and more about balancing between horizontal/vertical plane as well as strict/kipped. Most competent coaches that I’ve seen account for this and include strict pulls and db/bb rowing as accessory work on a fairly regular basis.
I guess I need to boil my questions down even further:
A person wants to achieve goal X, and will do thing Y to have the highest likelihood of achieving the goal. Here are some examples:
A person wants to be as muscular as humanly possible, and will train in a body building manner to have the highest likelihood of achieving that goal.
A person wants to lift as much as possible in the bench, deadlift, squat, and will train in a power lifting manner to have the highest likelihood of achieving that goal.
A person wants to win the world chess title, and will study under a chess master to have the highest likelihood of achieving that goal.
A person wants to X, and will do crossfit to have the highest likelihood of achieving that goal.
What is X?
Its based on what I know about crossfit, but this might be dated because I stopped caring about it many, many years ago. Because of that it is probably largely based on the crossfit.com programming.
[quote] What leads you to believe that whatever you’re referring to isn’t programmed intelligently?
[/quote]
Quotes like this from the Crossfit website:
“We scale load and intensity; we don’t change the program. The needs of Olympic athletes and our grandparents differ by degree, not kind.”
So that means that an olympic lifter who logs into the crossfit site to do the WOD and a grandpa who logs in are going to do the same exact workout that day, regardless of their needs or goals.
Also, if one wants to get better at the Oly lifts primarily, doing constantly varied workouts that dont continuously work on Oly technique or expose the lifter to heavier and heavier weights, I do not think that person is going to excel as much as someone going through an olympic coaching program.
Not trying to speak for op, but it doesn’t seem like some mysterious answer that needs to be answered from an oracle.
“X” is long term fitness across broad time domains and modalities that improved overall quality of life and staves off the nursing home.
No offense again man, but what you know about Crossfit appears to be very little and you’re arguing based on these preconceptions that were not even really true a decade ago. If you’re actually trying to learn something here and not just grinding an axe, let go of those.
That’s not at all what that quote means. What it means is that both grandmothers and Olympic athletes should be using functional movements (as defined in the other thread but also relative to their capabilities), training with high intensity (relative to their abilities), and broadening the scope of their fitness in the 10 physical skills (strength, endurance, stamina, flexibility, power, speed, coordination, balance, accuracy, agility). It doesn’t mean that they do the same workouts. It means that grandma is better served by reclaiming as much function as she can through movement than she is by hitting the machine circuit and 20 minutes of slow exercise bike at the local YMCA.
If someone’s only goal is to be a better weightlifter, then they’re better served by only doing weightlifting. The goal of weightlifting is only to get better at weightlifting. The goal of Crossfit is to get better at as many conceivable physical tasks as possible, which by definition makes highly specific preparation impossible. That’s not to say a Crossfit program won’t make you a better weightlifter, it probably will, but it won’t do so as quickly as if you only trained for weightlifting. As far as specific examples, the mainsite programs heavy weightlifting fairly frequently. All of the competition style programs that I’ve seen include it 3-5x/week. All of them build in progression. I’m not sure what position you’re arguing from here since you’ve already stated that you have near zero experience or understanding of Crossfit and I’m not sure what kind of exposure you have to weightlifting since those two worlds walk together enough that most weightlifting coaches and athletes understand most of what I’m saying here.
I think CrossFit has introduced more people to Olympic lifts than weight lifting. And I think it’s a good thing to teach a lot of people to be decent at them compared to teaching a few to be perfect.
That’s much clearer to me now, thanks.
How many women were using barbells before CrossFit? How many use them now? I don’t have the numbers but anecdotally it seems to be a huge increase.
Yes! Contrary to the CrossFit FAIL videos I think it’s been very good for weight training/working out in general. I think the group setting helps eliminate some of the fear of judgement that keeps women from picking up the barbell.
Call it coincidence if you want but I see more women lifting and more people overall doing olympic lifts at the gym.
With respect to that point: although we were never class-attending members at the CrossFit box, I do attribute my wife’s interest in performing heavy barbell squats, deadlifts and kettlebell exercises to the rise of CrossFit and people like Katrin Davidsdottir, Annie Thorisdottir and Sara Sigmundsdottir showing her that one could be an attractive woman while lifting heavy weights. She’s not going to be any competitive athlete but squatting once a week and kettlebelling twice a week as an indirect result of CrossFit’s popularity,
Just read this old article about CrossFit.
Strength is important to me. I’m not as strong as I’d like to be yet. Can I add 50-100 lbs to my squat through CrossFit?
I see CrossFitters with impressive strength but I suspect most of them built that strength before they started CrossFit. This article seems to support that notion.
I want to squat 405 but I’m probably only good for 330-350 lbs right now.
I don’t do CrossFit. I read that article though, and this is what jumps out at me: “No matter what anyone tells you, you’ll never get truly strong doing CrossFit”. This is bullshit. The competitors at the CrossFit games are outrageously strong. There’s no way around it. They may be some of the overall fittest people on Earth. The contributor of this article made this determination after failing to complete Fran. There’s no way you could complete any event at the CrossFit Games without being strong. No way at all.
I’m sure lots of them had a good strength base, but CrossFit has you squat, deadlift, and oly lift like all the time. No reason why it wouldn’t get you stronger.
Most of the people we see on TV were special long before CrossFit. Matt Fraser was a junior Olympic competitor and suffered a severe spinal injury. He tried a new procedure to get fixed up and it seems that it worked pretty well. He found his way into CrossFit because he still wanted to compete.
The pro’s also train like pro’s. They have time for different sessions each day. They can do a tough strength session in the morning, eat, rest/recover, and then knock out a tough MetCon in the evening. That’s not realistic for average folks.
I’m not sure if one can improve their strength to the tune of a 400+ squat by just doing the workouts at the gym. I’ve looked at several gyms’ training and they have a strength emphasis but I’m not sure if working up to a heave triple once or twice a month is going to add 50 lbs to your squat.
I’d be willing to settle for maintenance once I get to a 4 plate squat. I’m just not sure if I can get there with the programming I’ve seen.
I’m sure you’re correct, I was more criticizing a guy who took a 2 day seminar, failed a basic WOD, and then determined something he wasn’t strong enough to do couldn’t get you strong.
A guy who I was in the Marines with who was jacked as shit used to do 45 min strength training sessions followed by a 15 minute intense CrossFit workout. Maybe you could try that?
I’ve tried to merge them together like that but I struggle to find a WOD or MetCon that won’t interfere with my strength training. It doesn’t matter if I do upper/lower or push/pull splits, there’s always a conflict. I like complexes with the barbell but you end up with deadlifts, front squats, and presses in most of them.
I’m having good luck with my strength program at the moment, so I’ll probably find a way to keep doing a part of it while adding the MetCon stuff. I’m leaning towards something like this:
Monday: Squat, Deadlift, and maybe Power Clean + MetCon designed to be assistance for overall balance
Wednesday: Bench and OHP + MetCon as assistance
Repeat for Friday and Saturday if I can figure out how to squeeze it into my schedule.
I suppose it may not be CrossFit but my MetCon might end up being more of a bodybuilding complex.
So that article is 9 years old, and much has changed.
There was zero mention of “slop” at my L1. The repeated mantra was the “mechanics, consistency, intensity” hierarchy and that orthopedic safety was amongst the highest concerns. The only allusion to “slop” was that pursuit of mechanical perfection beyond consistent proficiency shouldn’t be allowed to overcome intensity. We all know someone who refuses to push themselves because they’re always working on their form with 50% weights.
Quarter pounders weren’t mentioned in the nutrition lecture. It was all about fresh, whole food sources applied to a zone framework. They didn’t push paleo either, stating that it is unnecessarily restrictive for many.
As far as not getting bigger or stronger doing Crossfit, I think that’s a matter of volume and what you take into it. If you only do 4-5 classes a week, that basically amounts to 20-40 minutes of actual training per workout once you account for warm up, instructional time, and cooldown/cleanup. Compare that to what the average recreational bodybuilder is spending in the gym and there’s a gap there. Just like any other goal, the more you do (within reason), the more you get out of it. In real life I still talk with a number of former tnation members who switched from more traditional bodybuilding training to crossfit and have had no issues building or maintaining strength or size while doing so. Personally, I maintain my strength in the big 3 on a fraction of my old training volume.
I suspect this might be the most likely scenario. I think maintenance is a no brainer.
My only takeaway from that article was the conclusion that a person can’t build impressive strength by only doing CrossFit. That’s the only thing I care about now. I’m still working towards my lifetime goals of squatting 4 plates and benching 3. I’m not sure where I’m at on squats; I’m hoping to be hitting 350-365 in a few weeks once I work my way down to heavy singles. That’s leave me 50ish pounds away from my goal.
I think you mentioned that you follow Invictus. In your opinion, is the strength portion of the training going to be sufficient to help me continue improving my squat?
I’m trying to figure out if I’m going all CrossFit in June or if I’ll be trying to create my own hybrid.
As always, thanks for your time!