Cressey's 635 Deadlift Form

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]UFpaul wrote:
eic wrote:

And in defence of the “knucklehead” comments posted. Whether we missed the point of this post or not, it is my opinion that in order to criticize someone elses performance you must achieve a level of performance equal to, or greater than the one you are citicizing.

Who do you want coaching you deadlift, (even if his max lift has shitty form) the guy that can deadlift 315 or the guy that can deadlift 715?

If you want to see perfect form on the deadlift check out men’s health or something of the sort.

[/quote]

You don’t need to have someone’s performance level to criticize their performance. Knowledge and the application are two different things. I can’t play baseball for shit, and when an infielder creates a bad error, I don’t think I have to be able to turn two to say, “he screwed up”

The fact is this, Cressey makes a very big deal about form/technique on ALL lifts. Its all over his articles. So people were surprised when his big pull looked about like what you see in gyms all over. Was it a ME attempt? yup. Good lift? yup.

Great form? no, but that is going to happen if you are going for all out on deads. Although, as far as a max attempt, he is doing really well to keep form, but like mentioned earlier, that isn’t how he would lift 315.

Just because he is famous to us doesn’t mean he is flawless, nor does that take away from his very impressive lift. I throw the shot, and one of the best in the nation/world has just ass terrible form. Worse than a lot of high schoolers with no coaching. Just because he is throwing damn far doesn’t mean he has great technique on his throws.

I think the big deal was just made about it since Cressey always stressed technique.

And frankly, if the 315 deadlifter can help my lifts out more than a 700 guy telling me what to do, I’d take the 315 any day. Come on, Cosgrove probably can’t compete with most of the guys on this site, and I think he is going to be my choice over guys who “lift a lot” anyday.

JMO

42

[quote]chris98 wrote:
Hey what is the deal with Cressey doing that arm raise thing? Could somebody explain that? Preferrably somebody who knows and not just guessing.
[/quote]

You know how to PM Eric, right? Ask him that.

43

The point is that it’s good form FOR A MAX EFFORT SINGLE.

Too many people simply don’t understand what a 1RM looks like from a powerlifting perspective. If they say “Well, I can deadlift 315 without any rounding of the back” then I’d say throw on more weight. If they can then do 335, but the back begins to round and they still don’t hitch, but they DO GET THE LIFT, then the weight before was NOT a 1 rep max. It’s pretty simple.

This is one of the reasons that many powerlifters don’t pull straight deadlifts from the floor very often.

Additionally, Stuart McGill has stated that advanced powerlifters are typically able to flex at the thoracic spine while still maintaining proper alignment (about 2-3 degrees from danger zone) of the lumbar spine.

-Matt

44

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
this is the same attitude that has reduced united states (olympic) weightlifting - USAW - to little more than a joke internationally. the sport is filled, almost exclusively, with coaches who focus on FORM rather than on the task of developing the physical strength required to move loads on par with top lifters from china, greece, former soviet-bloc nations, iran, etc.

this change in philosophy began in the mid-70’s and USAW has never recovered.

i see this attitude at meet after meet after meet. a lifter will pop a big PR or even a winning lift, hell, i’ve even seen american record lifts inspire comments from coaches like, “sloppy” or “his form was BAD!” or “seemed a bit out front…” insane. in short: every coach now residing at the USOC should be FIRED. every one of them.

don’t let this attitude creep into powerlifting. you’ll never recover if you do. o-lifting and powerlifting have one thing in common: they have officials NOT judges.

they ensure that the lifts are completed within the parameters established by the existing rules. they don’t award style points or judge how technically sound the lift is. it ain’t figure skating folks. the guys who lift the most weight win.[/quote]

AWESOME post.

45

I’ve covered this at least a dozen times on the forums at one point or another, but I’ll briefly touch on it again…

The secret with respect to rounding on maximal pulls is to get it in the right places. The best pullers get any rounding that occurs in the thoracic region, not the lumbar spine. We buttress against shear stress more effectively at the thoracic spine (more ROM) than we do at the lumbar spine (less ROM). The problem is that beginners don’t have the motor control to tell the difference.

If you need proof, take a look at Olexsandr Kutcher (near-800 deadlift at 165-181). He’s very thin at the lumbar erectors, but thick at the thoracic erectors. This hypertrophy comes because that’s where his body is working hardest. My back isn’t as big as Kutcher’s, but in terms of proportionate structure, it’s a complete replica.

46

EC’s lift Rocked! Great lift. He got psyched out and picked that @#!$@% up! At 165# picking up 635 that’s phenomenal. He used his awesome back strength, all power lifters vary somewhat when it comes to personal bests or Max Effort lifts. Eric has a super strong back that’s his strength, together with long arms and a super grip he can do what most of us can’t, pull 635# off the floor!

And to me it looked easy for him! Sure, learn to train correctly but when the time comes to battle the iron, let it rip, don’t let the “Almighty Form Gods” get in your way!

Jon Mello - Santa Cruz, Ca

47

Just an FYI, what I do as a powerlifter is under absolutely, 100% different circumstances to what I’ll do with an athlete who lifts to get better in his sport. By this token, bodybuilding would be considered one of those sports - and 1RM singles aren’t really a huge part of a bodybuilding arsenal, to be honest. If you think I’d let a high school kid pull with even a flexed thoracic spine, you’ve got another thing coming.

48

[quote]Modi wrote:
Whoever had the judges vs. officials comment was right on. You don’t score a perfect 10 or a 9.9 based on how pretty your lift is, it’s strictly by how much weight is moved as long as it complies with the rules. 3xBW deadlift is pretty amazing regardless of bodyweight or equipment.[/quote]

I’d get a 10 just because I’m dead sexy. :slight_smile:

49

I can’t wait for the day I pull 3X bodyweight and people criticize my form.

50

[quote]KO421 wrote:
I can’t wait for the day I pull 3X bodyweight and people criticize my form.[/quote]

Eg-fuggin-xactly!

51

[quote]eic wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
would you consider the deadlift on Cressey’s article to be considered good form.

No. Absolutely not. How could you? His back is rounding quite badly. Is this par for the course with a max effort competition lift? My experience tells me yes, but that doesn’t make it “good form.”

I think the attitude seems to be that it’s okay to loosen your form on a max-effort lift. It seems to me, however, that the point of training is to get stronger in all the right places so you can do a max-effort lift properly.

I mean, what the hell is the point of emphasizing good form on your pulls (or squats, or benches) in training if you are only going to have to drastically break form to get the lift up?

A lot of authors recommend ending a set not when you can no longer move the weight, but when you can no longer move the weight WITH GOOD FORM. Obviously in a competitive setting someone is going to do whatever it takes, within reason, to get the weight up.

But at the same time it would be hard to take such a person seriously if they criticized my form or told me how to do a lift properly.

Yes the weight is great but our his hips and glutes firing properly?

That I can’t speak to. I think it apparent, however, that the weight is far too heavy for him to pull with proper form. He looks the way he does, in my opinion, because he must alter his leverage so as to compensate for a lack of strength necessary to pull with a flat back.

Is the lift impressive? Yes, because it demonstrates a lot of brute strength. But the lift is not as impressive as it would have been if he pulled it with a flat back. [/quote]

Wow you felt me man!Im surprised there was one person that shared the similar beliefs as me.

you summed it up perfectly!

Do I powerlift? I have at points in my life. But I just dont find so much physique changes by only concentrating on moving weight. I like to blast my body many different ways.

I do regularly go up to 500lb deadlifts, but I also like to do preeshausted supersets and varying types of training that satisfys me and allows me to blast my body in many different ways.

52

As a follow-up to the thoracic vs. lumbar flexion topic, check out this newsletter I published back in October following a seminar with Stuart McGill where he covered the topic in great detail.

http://www.ericcressey.com/newsletter28.html

53

Was this lift really done at 165lbs? If so thats only 25lbs off a 4X BW deadlift.
WOW

54

Eric,

Is there a reason you stomp your heals before you begin the lift, or is it just a “ritual” you do?

I tried searching for it but nothing came up, so sorry if you’ve already answered this before.

Awesome job by the way. Truly inspiring.

55

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
eic wrote:
…

Is the lift impressive? Yes, because it demonstrates a lot of brute strength. But the lift is not as impressive as it would have been if he pulled it with a flat back.

Wow you felt me man!Im surprised there was one person that shared the similar beliefs as me.

…

[/quote]

I would have been more impressed if he did it one handed.

56

When someone raises their arms, it enables them to take a slightly bigger breath.
The bigger breath gives more support to your back and gets a better push off the belt.

57

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
Yeah, I agree with the OP. That lift was crap. Just as bad as this guy’s horrible form:

Sarcasm Off[/quote]

Hmm…I guess all the juice finally nuked his nads once and for all…

58

I hate him cause he pulls more than me at 75% of my bodyweight. If you’re even talking about his form call a cab, because you missed the boat.

59

[quote]Mr. Clean & Jerk wrote:
Dre Cappa wrote:
Yeah, I agree with the OP. That lift was crap. Just as bad as this guy’s horrible form:

Sarcasm Off

Hmm…I guess all the juice finally nuked his nads once and for all…

- YouTube [/quote]

Who is that guy? is he a personal trainer at your gym?24hr fitness?
I wonder what his lift would be with no straps and no belt?
I don’t think it counts cause it looks like he has four legs.

ha ha ha. I like to piss you overly defensive guys off!

60

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
this is the same attitude that has reduced united states (olympic) weightlifting - USAW - to little more than a joke internationally. the sport is filled, almost exclusively, with coaches who focus on FORM rather than on the task of developing the physical strength required to move loads on par with top lifters from china, greece, former soviet-bloc nations, iran, etc.

this change in philosophy began in the mid-70’s and USAW has never recovered.

i see this attitude at meet after meet after meet. a lifter will pop a big PR or even a winning lift, hell, i’ve even seen american record lifts inspire comments from coaches like, “sloppy” or “his form was BAD!” or “seemed a bit out front…” insane. in short: every coach now residing at the USOC should be FIRED. every one of them.

don’t let this attitude creep into powerlifting. you’ll never recover if you do. o-lifting and powerlifting have one thing in common: they have officials NOT judges.

they ensure that the lifts are completed within the parameters established by the existing rules. they don’t award style points or judge how technically sound the lift is. it ain’t figure skating folks. the guys who lift the most weight win.[/quote]

you heard wrong…