I don’t think you’re capable.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
sorry i was gonna post a witty reply …
[/quote]
“Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.”
That’s what I thought I was doing. Wait…are you telling me that this is not a good place to get information about supplement use??? Can you recommend a good site where I can find out this kind of information because apparently T-Nation isn’t the place.
Anyway, some of you have been very helpful. Thanks. The rest of you, you seriously gotta work on your game. Maybe try lurking on some other forums and see if you can pick up some good material.
Peace!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
but people have died using creatine.
[/quote]
lol
are you trolling? be honest now. [/quote]
Bonez, how old are you? This was pretty prevalent in the news in the late 90s. People still weren’t very knowledgable about the side effects of creatine use as a supplement. A handful of deaths had occurred among wrestlers and football players. The wrestlers were from the weight cutting and the football players during summer football camp.
The issue was related to water retention and heavy exertion in hot conditions.
Sorry, I just like to know what I’m putting in my body and the benefits/side effects that come along with it. Maybe its because my wife and I work in the pharmaceutical industry, or maybe its because I’m a big pussy. Its hard to tell.[/quote]
My age has nothing to do with the fact that youre 100% unequivocally wrong about people dying from creatine.
There is creatine in goddamned red meat and youre trying to spew some bullshit about it DIRECTLY KILLING PEPOLE?
Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.
Find one case where an autopsy found ‘over consumption of creatine’ as a cause of death. Or soemething similar. We’ll wait… [/quote]
this man did too much creatine and things didnt end well for him
dont let it happen to you!
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
Now that’s actually funny, ; ^ )
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
this man did too much creatine and things didnt end well for him
dont let it happen to you![/quote]
[quote]IronBP wrote:
“Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.”
That’s what I thought I was doing. Wait…are you telling me that this is not a good place to get information about supplement use??? Can you recommend a good site where I can find out this kind of information because apparently T-Nation isn’t the place.
Anyway, some of you have been very helpful. Thanks. The rest of you, you seriously gotta work on your game. Maybe try lurking on some other forums and see if you can pick up some good material.
Peace!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
but people have died using creatine.
[/quote]
lol
are you trolling? be honest now. [/quote]
Bonez, how old are you? This was pretty prevalent in the news in the late 90s. People still weren’t very knowledgable about the side effects of creatine use as a supplement. A handful of deaths had occurred among wrestlers and football players. The wrestlers were from the weight cutting and the football players during summer football camp.
The issue was related to water retention and heavy exertion in hot conditions.
Sorry, I just like to know what I’m putting in my body and the benefits/side effects that come along with it. Maybe its because my wife and I work in the pharmaceutical industry, or maybe its because I’m a big pussy. Its hard to tell.[/quote]
My age has nothing to do with the fact that youre 100% unequivocally wrong about people dying from creatine.
There is creatine in goddamned red meat and youre trying to spew some bullshit about it DIRECTLY KILLING PEPOLE?
Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.
Find one case where an autopsy found ‘over consumption of creatine’ as a cause of death. Or soemething similar. We’ll wait… [/quote]
[/quote]
You have to understand something. Over the years there have been many threads created discussing this topic. For this reason people on this forum have little patience regarding this subject, especially when a poster passes on misinformation as fact.
Secondly, this is the Internet. Rudeness is the rule not the exception. If you plan to post here or any other anonymous forum you better develop thicker skin.
To answer your question, you have nothing to worry about with creatine use. The “deaths” you have associated with creatine use all have something in common. Long periods of extreme dehydration - wrestlers spending hours in the sauna to make weight, football players practising football severals hours at a time in the hot sun etc etc… Someone who drinks plenty of water (2 Litres+/day) and lifts 60min/day 5 days a week has absolutely nothing to worry about.
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
[/quote]
As me being a wrestler with an injury currently, I can tell you that it was not creatine. It was cutting up to 20lbs in a period of 2 days. I’ve seen people cut from 180-152 in a period of a week by eating a granola bar and 8oz water every day. Couple this with a 4 hour practice and you have dehydration, malnutrition, and just bad shit. It was not creatine.
Its like saying that someone who jumped off a bridge while on steroids was killed by steroids. It has nothing to do with the fact that the asshole jumped off a bridge, but receives the blame anyway.
"You have to understand something. Over the years there have been many threads created discussing this topic. For this reason people on this forum have little patience regarding this subject, especially when a poster passes on misinformation as fact.
Secondly, this is the Internet. Rudeness is the rule not the exception. If you plan to post here or any other anonymous forum you better develop thicker skin."
Thanks for the tips. I’ve actually been pretty active on internet forums for over a decade now. I completely understand, and to be clear, I’m pretty sure I didn’t use any special font to denote that my feelings were hurt.
“To answer your question, you have nothing to worry about with creatine use. The “deaths” you have associated with creatine use all have something in common. Long periods of extreme dehydration - wrestlers spending hours in the sauna to make weight, football players practising football severals hours at a time in the hot sun etc etc… Someone who drinks plenty of water (2 Litres+/day) and lifts 60min/day 5 days a week has absolutely nothing to worry about.”
Yeah, people have said that several times so far, including the guy who posted after you. No one has provided a source for information. When the incidents occurred, everyone was well aware of the fact that these athletes were extremely dehydrated, yet there was still concern as death from dehydration during these activities had not been as big of an issue in the past.
Again, I’m not challenging anyone on this issue. I’m just wondering if there’s a source that someone can point me too. Since this has been done to death, I would assume that a source would be very easy to come up with.
…another thing I’ve learned from internet forums. Just because someone says its true and tags some insults to the end of the post (not you), doesn’t mean its true.
Anyway, in all seriousness, thanks for the imput.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
“Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.”
That’s what I thought I was doing. Wait…are you telling me that this is not a good place to get information about supplement use??? Can you recommend a good site where I can find out this kind of information because apparently T-Nation isn’t the place.
Anyway, some of you have been very helpful. Thanks. The rest of you, you seriously gotta work on your game. Maybe try lurking on some other forums and see if you can pick up some good material.
Peace!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
but people have died using creatine.
[/quote]
lol
are you trolling? be honest now. [/quote]
Bonez, how old are you? This was pretty prevalent in the news in the late 90s. People still weren’t very knowledgable about the side effects of creatine use as a supplement. A handful of deaths had occurred among wrestlers and football players. The wrestlers were from the weight cutting and the football players during summer football camp.
The issue was related to water retention and heavy exertion in hot conditions.
Sorry, I just like to know what I’m putting in my body and the benefits/side effects that come along with it. Maybe its because my wife and I work in the pharmaceutical industry, or maybe its because I’m a big pussy. Its hard to tell.[/quote]
My age has nothing to do with the fact that youre 100% unequivocally wrong about people dying from creatine.
There is creatine in goddamned red meat and youre trying to spew some bullshit about it DIRECTLY KILLING PEPOLE?
Ignorance is not an excuse. Youre absolutely wrong. Do more research.
Find one case where an autopsy found ‘over consumption of creatine’ as a cause of death. Or soemething similar. We’ll wait… [/quote]
[/quote]
You have to understand something. Over the years there have been many threads created discussing this topic. For this reason people on this forum have little patience regarding this subject, especially when a poster passes on misinformation as fact.
Secondly, this is the Internet. Rudeness is the rule not the exception. If you plan to post here or any other anonymous forum you better develop thicker skin.
To answer your question, you have nothing to worry about with creatine use. The “deaths” you have associated with creatine use all have something in common. Long periods of extreme dehydration - wrestlers spending hours in the sauna to make weight, football players practising football severals hours at a time in the hot sun etc etc… Someone who drinks plenty of water (2 Litres+/day) and lifts 60min/day 5 days a week has absolutely nothing to worry about.
[/quote]
But if people jumped off the same bridge for 70 years with no deaths, then all of the sudden 3 people who used steroids jumped off a bridge and died…
Again, I’m just looking for something scientific. Thanks.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
[/quote]
As me being a wrestler with an injury currently, I can tell you that it was not creatine. It was cutting up to 20lbs in a period of 2 days. I’ve seen people cut from 180-152 in a period of a week by eating a granola bar and 8oz water every day. Couple this with a 4 hour practice and you have dehydration, malnutrition, and just bad shit. It was not creatine.
Its like saying that someone who jumped off a bridge while on steroids was killed by steroids. It has nothing to do with the fact that the asshole jumped off a bridge, but receives the blame anyway.[/quote]
youre welcome.
bye
[quote]IronBP wrote:
Again, I’m not challenging anyone on this issue. I’m just wondering if there’s a source that someone can point me too. Since this has been done to death, I would assume that a source would be very easy to come up with.
[/quote]
FDA rejects creatine role in deaths. Associated Press: April 30, 1998.
^ this is related to the death of a wrestler in 1997. I don’t have a link to the specific article but it’s used as a source in several articles discussing creatine use.
Edit: There are plenty of studies on the FDA’s website clearing creatine for oral use.
The annoying this is that youre asking people to prove a negative.
Youre asking to prove that creatine DOESNT cause death.
Creatine is the most widely researched sports supplement ever. The burden should be on YOU to prove that it DOES cause death. By citing studies. Not some bullshit newspaper articles or whatever.
Ill save you the time of attempting that. You wont find that information.
[quote]IronBP wrote:
But if people jumped off the same bridge for 70 years with no deaths, then all of the sudden 3 people who used steroids jumped off a bridge and died…
Again, I’m just looking for something scientific. Thanks.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
[/quote]
As me being a wrestler with an injury currently, I can tell you that it was not creatine. It was cutting up to 20lbs in a period of 2 days. I’ve seen people cut from 180-152 in a period of a week by eating a granola bar and 8oz water every day. Couple this with a 4 hour practice and you have dehydration, malnutrition, and just bad shit. It was not creatine.
Its like saying that someone who jumped off a bridge while on steroids was killed by steroids. It has nothing to do with the fact that the asshole jumped off a bridge, but receives the blame anyway.[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]IronBP wrote:
But if people jumped off the same bridge for 70 years with no deaths, then all of the sudden 3 people who used steroids jumped off a bridge and died…
Again, I’m just looking for something scientific. Thanks.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
[/quote]
As me being a wrestler with an injury currently, I can tell you that it was not creatine. It was cutting up to 20lbs in a period of 2 days. I’ve seen people cut from 180-152 in a period of a week by eating a granola bar and 8oz water every day. Couple this with a 4 hour practice and you have dehydration, malnutrition, and just bad shit. It was not creatine.
Its like saying that someone who jumped off a bridge while on steroids was killed by steroids. It has nothing to do with the fact that the asshole jumped off a bridge, but receives the blame anyway.[/quote]
[/quote]
only 50 posts to make it on my ignore list. tip of the hat to you.
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
[/quote]
Google the name of the author of that article.
Still want to take advice from her?
Now, google creatine + death
I think 9 out of ten hits say that the wrestlers died from sitting on an exercise bike wearing a garbage bag in a sauna without drinking water and that one of the hits is your article by miss Dudash. Which pretty much says “further studies needed cause I just quote a bunch of irrelevant shit from a basic chemistry book and didn’t really get anywhere with my article”
Critical thinking man. Come on. Millions of people have used creatine for years and not one of them has died from it. Sounds extremely safe. Give one million people a hairdryer and at least one of them will find a way to die from it. But you don’t see people being scared of hairdryers.
Oh no, how will I ever go on without useless one line derogatory quips from a man in a Skelator costume? I might have to take some steroids and jump off a bridge now!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
But if people jumped off the same bridge for 70 years with no deaths, then all of the sudden 3 people who used steroids jumped off a bridge and died…
Again, I’m just looking for something scientific. Thanks.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
I know, I know…ha ha ha I’m stupid for reading an article that references scientific literature on the subject. You’ll note that the article is from 2000, which is about the time frame where I stopped lifting. I came to this forum because I had assumed that there’s probably a better understanding of the potential side effects and the proper usage of the supplement. I’ve noticed that there are some pretty knowledgable and helpful people here.
Again, since some of you who are calling me stupid clearly have reading comprehension problems of your own, I am not arguing. All I stated was that the scientific community of 12 years ago believed that there were dangers while using the supplement. I am curious as to what information has come out since then.
Does anyone have any additional background about what has been discovered since then? Any links? I think some of the information I recently found is still pretty old. ie They stil recommend loading and cycling. I’ve since learned that the loading isn’t neccessary anymore, but this thread is the first I’ve heard about no need for cycling.
[/quote]
As me being a wrestler with an injury currently, I can tell you that it was not creatine. It was cutting up to 20lbs in a period of 2 days. I’ve seen people cut from 180-152 in a period of a week by eating a granola bar and 8oz water every day. Couple this with a 4 hour practice and you have dehydration, malnutrition, and just bad shit. It was not creatine.
Its like saying that someone who jumped off a bridge while on steroids was killed by steroids. It has nothing to do with the fact that the asshole jumped off a bridge, but receives the blame anyway.[/quote]
[/quote]
only 50 posts to make it on my ignore list. tip of the hat to you. [/quote]
Critical thinking…okay, got it! I’ll try to start applying that from now on. Next time I won’t ask a question on a forum related to a topic I’m interested in, but instead google the information…except that when the information I find is incorrect according to the forum members that I’m not supposed to wast my time asking, I’ll keep googling until I get the right information.
Thanks for the help man!
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
[/quote]
Google the name of the author of that article.
Still want to take advice from her?
Now, google creatine + death
I think 9 out of ten hits say that the wrestlers died from sitting on an exercise bike wearing a garbage bag in a sauna without drinking water and that one of the hits is your article by miss Dudash. Which pretty much says “further studies needed cause I just quote a bunch of irrelevant shit from a basic chemistry book and didn’t really get anywhere with my article”
Critical thinking man. Come on. Millions of people have used creatine for years and not one of them has died from it. Sounds extremely safe. Give one million people a hairdryer and at least one of them will find a way to die from it. But you don’t see people being scared of hairdryers.[/quote]
[quote]IronBP wrote:
Critical thinking…okay, got it! I’ll try to start applying that from now on. Next time I won’t ask a question on a forum related to a topic I’m interested in, but instead google the information…except that when the information I find is incorrect according to the forum members that I’m not supposed to wast my time asking, I’ll keep googling until I get the right information.
Thanks for the help man!
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
I thought I would post a link to an article I found:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/WrestlingandCreatine.htm
[/quote]
Google the name of the author of that article.
Still want to take advice from her?
Now, google creatine + death
I think 9 out of ten hits say that the wrestlers died from sitting on an exercise bike wearing a garbage bag in a sauna without drinking water and that one of the hits is your article by miss Dudash. Which pretty much says “further studies needed cause I just quote a bunch of irrelevant shit from a basic chemistry book and didn’t really get anywhere with my article”
Critical thinking man. Come on. Millions of people have used creatine for years and not one of them has died from it. Sounds extremely safe. Give one million people a hairdryer and at least one of them will find a way to die from it. But you don’t see people being scared of hairdryers.[/quote]
[/quote]
Body building doesn’t kill people.
Creatine kills people.