Thanks. It is interesting how body building is about illusion of size/shape and yet it is obsessed with numbers.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Thanks. It is interesting how body building is about illusion of size/shape and yet it is obsessed with numbers.[/quote]
Well, the issue with numbers is simply a matter of tracking progress. It’s a lot simpler for most trainees to gauge improvement by their bench going up a couple of lbs, or an extra rep than it is to look in the mirror and notice a 1 lb gain in lean muscle. The sort of mirror-improvements happen over the course of weeks, if not months. When I first started dieting down, Corey and I would take pics every week, even if we didn’t notice any changes. When we looked back on several weeks’ worth of pictures, we would notice imrpovements every 2, if not 3 weeks for the most part, and then, towards the very end (less than 6 weeks out), we were seeing pretty blatant changes on a weekly basis. The last couple of weeks was just crazy as far as how quickly things were improving. You just run out of fat, and your body can really change as your glycogen, water, and salt levels fluctuate throughout the day.
S
just wanna say that your new avatar is by far the most impressive photo you have posted from your show. looks extremely polished and you have that real bodybuilder “look.”
just my opinion but i think a little more traps to go with the big shoulders would help.
Great wins Stu, I’ve been following closely but mostly lurking. Very well done.
Have you considered using this post contest rebound to try and get as big as possible? I know you’ve mentioned staying within 20 lbs, but I wonder if you’ve thought about trying to move up a weight class at all? This post contest rebound could be a big help with that. And you’ve got time.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Great wins Stu, I’ve been following closely but mostly lurking. Very well done.
Have you considered using this post contest rebound to try and get as big as possible? I know you’ve mentioned staying within 20 lbs, but I wonder if you’ve thought about trying to move up a weight class at all? This post contest rebound could be a big help with that. And you’ve got time.[/quote]
Well, I’m certainly thinking about allowing the rebound to just go on it’s own for at least a few months. I mean, I was so concerned with being as tight as I could, that I almost accepted that I would lose size in the end. Brian Whitacre’s latest email to me, saying how I already have plenty of size (and even though I feel tiny in person, in contest shape, in the pics, I must admit to being one of the larger, and thicker middleweights), does make me think more about not even worrying about what weight class I end up in… and in all possibilities, chances are I will end up as one of the smaller light-heavies next time. The last few weeks, my strength has just been through the roof, so I’ll admit that I’ve been allowing myself calories in a much more liberal manner than I originally anticipated. Certainly, you can’t stay as tight as you’d like if you intend to put on any decent muscle size, so just like in the ‘old days’, when I started training, I’m eating every 2 hours, and as long as it’s got an appreciable amount of protein, everything else be damned -lol. I’ll probably keep this up for another month or so, and see how things are looking. Of course I miss the shredded midsection, even when I wasn’t flexing, but with all the comments about how much thicker I’m looking, I think things are going as they should. IN case anyone’s wondering how ‘pale and soft’ a competitor looks a month after a show, here’s a peek, with a 15-17 lb gain in the last 4 weeks (oh yeah, this is right after breakfast yesterday morning, so of course I’ll bitch and whine about my full stomach -lol).
S
Pale and soft? I understand the use of those expressions, but dude, you look great!!
God your calves look fucking massive in that photo.
Just wondering, how do you find your insulin sensitivity now, from say, before you started dieting and around contest time?
Omg Stu, you are SOOO fat – how did you let yourself get so fat? Start a contest diet immediately! 
Looking great man, as always. I may have missed it, but how much you weighin in now?
HARDGNR- It’s interesting, I always thought of myself as not being able to tolerate carbs well, never really giving them much attention other than trying to avoid them late at night, and always getting some simple sources immediately post workout. When I did the contest diet, I had to really pay careful attention, and at the beginning, I actually thought I was eating more carbs on certain days than I would have been comfortable with before starting to diet. Now, while I may whine about not being totally shredded anymore, I know that I need a higher carb intake in order to pack on some more size. While I wouldn’t say I’ve done any damage to my insulin sensitivity, I will admit that the tremendously depleted state I put my body in certainly sets up the stage for a ‘bad’ rebound if you’re not mindful of what you’re eating. Sure I binged for a day or two, and sure I’ll take a cheat meal whenever I want (I limit it to 1 ‘bad’ thing a day if I absolutely have to), but for the most part, my food choices have stayed pretty much the same, which is probably a smart thing as far as making the body’s desire to put on ‘weight’ work for you. I’m sure if I had started eating like someone who doesn’t train at all, that I would look a hell of a lot worse in my current pics.
BUGEUSHAAD- The morning I snapped those pics (after a HUGE sushi dinner the night before -lol, excuses excuses) I weighed 187 lbs. My weight on contest day was 170 lbs, but I keep pointing out that the Monday before the show, I was actually 174, so I figure the 4 lb “loss” was glycogen, and intestinal ‘bulk’. Looking at it that way, I’ve only gained 13 lbs in 4-5 weeks, which is fine. I’m sure things will taper off now, considering that my eating has been pretty consistent calorie and macro-wise. I’m still keeping a log/journal so I can see how everything is working. This really has turned into a very educational experience, and I’m still learning more as I see how my body ‘bounces back’. I just keep thinking about the differences I want to bring to the table next June when I compete again, and that helps me stay focused 
S
An interesting thought occured to me this past weekend. Obviously I’ve been eating a good amount of food since my show, and while training damn hard, have added a considerable amount of muscle in the process. This past Saturday, I pretty much binged all day. Some days you just sort of ‘lose it’ and enjoy yourself without thinking about your long term goals (and of course, I will agree that there are much more important things in life than bodybuilding).
Sure i hit the gym (nice and heavy AM leg session, still limping actually), but afterwards, with the crappy NY weather, all overcast and rainy, I just ran errands, had a good and unhealthy lunch at outback, and then snacked all afternoon with my girl while we watched movies. Long story short, by Sat evening, I felt horrible. Bloated, certainly not hungry enough to force myself to keep eating every few hours… When Sunday came, which was an off day for me training wise, I made sure I kept everything (cals and carbs) very low.
In fact, probably close to the numbers I was using on my low days towards the end of my prep. By this morning, I felt better, stomach was back to my usual 6 pack, and I felt good. Obviously this was an unplanned little binge, but I’m planning on going away for 10 days in July. For 4 of those days, I won’t be training, or carrying my food with me (Disney and Unversal Studios in Orlando). For the 2nd half, I will be finding a gym to ensure I get at least 3 sessions in. To accomodate for this, I’m going to really bust my ass the 2 weeks before I leave (no off days, and no cheating on my diet,… overreaching?).
But after I get back, (and this is where my initial thinking was going), I was pondering the alternating of small bulk/small diet phases. I know it’s had mixed reviews, but Layne Norton has written about it quite a bit. It’s not that I think I’m getting really fat or anything, and I know that you can’t make decent gains if your macros are restricted, but I’m curious how this sort of approach would compare to a simple carb cycling approach like Thibs recommends. The same goal obviously, muscle gain with minimal fat accumulation.
Wondering if there were any thoughts on this?
S
Bro, I got your bodybuilding nickname. I dub thee: Baby Yates!
You look awesome dude, keep it up.
I’ve seen that Shelby Starnes utilizes mini-diets. Here are his thoughts on the post-show rebound:
"You’re extremely sensitive to insulin after a show. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone. So boatload the carbs, keep protein moderate to high, and keep fat low.
I typically don’t eat much junk after a show, but will eat tons of carbs (very often over 1000 grams per day) for at least a couple weeks. I’m back in the gym within a couple days, training pretty close to how I normally do (low volume, high frequency). I think doing this is important for nutrient partitioning (training soon after the show, while eating a high carbohydrate, mod. protein, low fat diet).
I eat and train like this for 4 weeks, then take 4 weeks or more to do a mini-diet. This mini-diet helps shed any fat I gained during the last 4 week blast, and helps restore insulin sensitivity. If I want to take any time off from the gym, it would be during this mini-diet. The diet is somewhat similar to my precontest diet.
After that I get into my “normal” offseason diet, which is based on carb cycling."
thats a really interesting quote, I can’t believe he (someone who says he isn’t naturally lean) eats as much as 1000g/day for 4 weeks! Generally the advice I hear is to gradually add calories and carbs back in, I would have thought a lot of that would go towards fat after a few days. I’m sure it’s not “refeed food” like cereal and waffles but thats still a ton of carbs
If he uses that mini diet to lose any fat gained in that time (so he’d be back to his pre-contest levels) I wonder why he doesn’t do the 4 higher carb weeks again if it’s basically the same circumstances.
Well I certainly don’t think I could ever get anywhere near 1000g of carbs a day -lol. Still, There have been some days where I’ve been ‘less than strict’ with my diet, again, as long as I get enough protein every few hours, I can rationalize it, at least for a little while. Still, it is good hear about others besides Layne who utilize a back and forth approach. I’ve seen it discussed on forums before, and no one ever really has a definitive answer, you can see both sides of the argument.
I’m sure if I wasn’t planning on going away in July I might be a bit more inclined to just let myself keep going (I’m definitely looking thick, and still maintaining a lot of definition in my delts). I was leery about reintroducing carbs too quickly myself, as admittedly I used to be kind of scarred of eating too many and pudging up. Aside from the day after binge, I think the fact that I kept most of my carbs from good sources for the first couple of weeks helped a lot (even though my amounts were a lot higher). Right now, I’m thinking of just keeping all my numbers down a little bit the 2 weeks before I go away, and because I won’t be training for a week, I’m going to switch from my current 5 day split to a 3 day split, with no days off (just keep repeating until I have to leave town).
I figure this will put me in a depleted, somewhat overtrained state, and then the week off, I can use as a rest/supercompensation week, as I rest, eat, and just recuperate from all the beating I’ve been doing to my body lately. Should be interesting to see what happens. The last time I had to really take time off (a vacation I took about 7 years ago), when I came home, and my brother forced me to measure my arms, they had grown from actually taking time away from the gym.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
…
But after I get back, (and this is where my initial thinking was going), I was pondering the alternating of small bulk/small diet phases. I know it’s had mixed reviews, but Layne Norton has written about it quite a bit. It’s not that I think I’m getting really fat or anything, and I know that you can’t make decent gains if your macros are restricted, but I’m curious how this sort of approach would compare to a simple carb cycling approach like Thibs recommends. The same goal obviously, muscle gain with minimal fat accumulation.
Wondering if there were any thoughts on this?
S
[/quote]
Personally, I don’t see the mini bulks/cuts working as well if you want to gain some significant size. My reasoning is that gaining significant muscle seems to require sustained time and effort. It’s a relatively slow process, and it’s unpredictable, in that you go for awhile seemingly gaining nothing and then suddenly make gains. Even dieting off fat, though faster and more predictable according to calorie deficit, still requires the traction of a bunch of weeks strung together to make significant progress.
Say you log a 1000-cal deficit for a week, which would predict losing 2 pounds. In reality, you might lose 8 pounds or more, mostly from water/glycogen and a little fat. You won’t even lose 2 pounds of fat because the body will use some stored glycogen for energy as well as a bit of stored fat. Then say you start to bulk and up the cals and carbs; within days, you can gain 8 pounds or more, but again, this is mostly water/glycogen. For the first couple weeks of either bulking or cutting, the results are mostly water/glycogen.
So if you alternate a few weeks of bulking with a few of cutting, IMO you are probably just depleting and reloading glycogen over and over again, losing a small amount of fat and then gaining it again – not making any significant or lasting changes to your body comp.
In fact, if you keep up the cycles long enough, the body might adapt to see them as normal and not even load/deplete glycogen as much in response to the calorie change. It is known that the body somehow “averages” calorie intake over the course of days to make scale weight much more stable than calorie intake. With a few weeks of increasing followed by decreasing calories, you might just lengthen your body’s averaging mechanism.
Carb cycling over a long period makes more sense to me for changing body comp because you target the excess carbs to times when your muscles are more insulin sensitive, around training. You have a good chance to grow your muscle because you provide the excess when the stimulus to build is highest. You avoid big surpluses on your off days because your nutrient partioning is not so favorable at those times, so excess calories then will result in more fat storage than around training. The low carb days also let you lose some water so that you can see more clearly what gains are actually muscle versus fat.
Bulk/Cut cycles sound appealing to me, the way Layne explained it made a lot of sense. Four weeks 500kcal above maintenance and two weeks 500kcal below maintenance, even when you cut your calories down you still have a high amount of anabolic hormones during that period.
If you gain four pounds the first month, loose two pounds the following two weeks. You end up with a gain of two very solid pounds.
[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Bulk/Cut cycles sound appealing to me, the way Layne explained it made a lot of sense. Four weeks 500kcal above maintenance and two weeks 500kcal below maintenance, even when you cut your calories down you still have a high amount of anabolic hormones during that period.
If you gain four pounds the first month, loose two pounds the following two weeks. You end up with a gain of two very solid pounds.[/quote]
It doesn’t seem complicated, but do you have any articles by Layne on his thoughts on this?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Bulk/Cut cycles sound appealing to me, the way Layne explained it made a lot of sense. Four weeks 500kcal above maintenance and two weeks 500kcal below maintenance, even when you cut your calories down you still have a high amount of anabolic hormones during that period.
If you gain four pounds the first month, loose two pounds the following two weeks. You end up with a gain of two very solid pounds.
It doesn’t seem complicated, but do you have any articles by Layne on his thoughts on this?[/quote]
I got this info from his video ‘Unleashed’ I’d recommend it, very good material.
[quote]andersons wrote:
Personally, I don’t see the mini bulks/cuts working as well if you want to gain some significant size. My reasoning is that gaining significant muscle seems to require sustained time and effort. It’s a relatively slow process, and it’s unpredictable, in that you go for awhile seemingly gaining nothing and then suddenly make gains. Even dieting off fat, though faster and more predictable according to calorie deficit, still requires the traction of a bunch of weeks strung together to make significant progress.
Say you log a 1000-cal deficit for a week, which would predict losing 2 pounds. In reality, you might lose 8 pounds or more, mostly from water/glycogen and a little fat. You won’t even lose 2 pounds of fat because the body will use some stored glycogen for energy as well as a bit of stored fat. Then say you start to bulk and up the cals and carbs; within days, you can gain 8 pounds or more, but again, this is mostly water/glycogen. For the first couple weeks of either bulking or cutting, the results are mostly water/glycogen.
So if you alternate a few weeks of bulking with a few of cutting, IMO you are probably just depleting and reloading glycogen over and over again, losing a small amount of fat and then gaining it again – not making any significant or lasting changes to your body comp.
In fact, if you keep up the cycles long enough, the body might adapt to see them as normal and not even load/deplete glycogen as much in response to the calorie change. It is known that the body somehow “averages” calorie intake over the course of days to make scale weight much more stable than calorie intake. With a few weeks of increasing followed by decreasing calories, you might just lengthen your body’s averaging mechanism.
Carb cycling over a long period makes more sense to me for changing body comp because you target the excess carbs to times when your muscles are more insulin sensitive, around training. You have a good chance to grow your muscle because you provide the excess when the stimulus to build is highest.
You avoid big surpluses on your off days because your nutrient partioning is not so favorable at those times, so excess calories then will result in more fat storage than around training. The low carb days also let you lose some water so that you can see more clearly what gains are actually muscle versus fat.[/quote]
Well, I’m not a new trainer searching for number gains on the scale, moreso improving my body composition as my weight returns to being closer to what it was before cutting for a show. Obviously I’m not going to be concerned with BS water/glycogen gains, but the concern simply being overeating a little too much, for a little too long post show, and maybe losing sight of keeping my overall conditioning at the cost of ‘bulking’. Maybe I wasn’t thinking so much of actually alternating bulking with ‘cutting’, but maybe an alternating of bulking with a closer-to-maintenance level of nutrients.
Layne does express his rational quite well, I’m sure his writings are all over the internet (he also answers all emails, I’ve had back and forths with him for the past few years on a number of topics, very cordial as well as being well informed).
Luckily, as my training partner Corey put it, as I have so much time before my next show (next May, and then June), now is the time to ‘play around’ a bit with any new ideas or concepts and see what works, then discard what doesn’t. We’ve always taken a very objective and removed approach to assessing my progress, so this off season for me will be no different.
S
So I finally started putting all the numbers from my prep journal into a spreadsheet. Truly fascinating to see the progression, and even the mistakes I made. Still, it’s all a learning experience. So I’ve got columns for daily macro breakdown (only carbs and cals, as that was all I really played with), as well as avg intakes for each week, how high the high day numbers were, how low the low day numbers were, and what (if any) cardio I did each particular week.
I was planning on using this to not only plan my next contest diet, but to assist my 2 training partners, who will be competing in the Spring as well. Then it hit me,… all the PMs I get on here asking me questions,… when I’m done, I’ll just toss it up here, with a little paragraph explaining all the things I now realize were done incorrectly, or maybe could have been done in a different (better?) way. I figure this should asnwer a lot of questions.
I will note though, upon looking over my initial numbers… I feel better about planning to keep the numbers higher next time, and do small amounts of cardio ealier out. While I don’t want to comit to anything as far as if I’ll move up a weight class or not, I will concede that it is indeed a possibility, but that conditioning will always be the acid test for stepping onstage.
S