Could Anything Drive You to Suicide?

[quote]Kuz wrote:
So what about your reality are you looking to correct? I’m really not seeking to demean your situation in the slightest, but I am struggling to understand where your resistance to psychiatry lies. Let’s even take the drugs out of the mix for a second: What about counseling? Is that off the table too?[/quote]

i saw some counselors years ago…
my experience with them is that they have an almost universal tendancy to trivialize your goals… especially in the realm of physicality, the 40 year old across the room with a double chin and a spare tire around his waist can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to turn out like him at 5’10 200 lbs.

and 20% body fat… after all he’s within the “healthy” range right? these people think anything other than complacence is obsessive…

this entire thread is driving me to suicide i think…

i need to go surf for porn before i start crying.

This might sound off-track, insensitive, and weird, but start looking for chemicals that you (unknowingly) react strongly to.

A summer a couple of years ago I ate tons of whey protein with aspartame in it. In retrospect, and by trial and error, I found out I reacted very strongly to aspartame. At one point I thought I had MS.

I had panic attacks, and had to be prescribed Paxil. At another point, I all of my joints started feeling painful (and, no, it was not from overtraining), and I thought I was starting to lose it for good … all this at 27.

I also thought I had a magnesium deficiency (a common symptom in depressed persons). Supplementing helped, but that wasn’t enough. I stopped all whey + supplements for a couple of weeks and it returned back to normal.

Never underestimate potential allergies or reactions to ‘everyday’ chemicals. Excitotoxins could be part of the problem.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I am certainly no expert but I know a few people that have committed suicide.

They were all on anti-depressants and the doctors seem to prescribe this stuff like candy.

A guy from my old gym killed himself almost 10 years ago. He had been “depressed” for years. He saw a psychiatrist almost on a whim because his company had a new mental health program. He was prescribed some anti-depressant and within months he killed himself.

I also knew a kid from my town (he was a catholic school kid) that blew out his brains playing Russian Roulette. His friends said he did it a bunch of times before he hit the loaded chamber. He too was on medication.

While you certainly are correct about your chicken and the egg point it seems to me that anti-depressants and suicide go hand in hand.

I am sure they are wonder drugs for some that really need them but I think they are over-prescribed and would stay away from them if I were the original OP.

I don’t think this guy is depressed because of a chemical imbalance in his brain. He is depressed because of his pain, lack of mobility and the thought he will never achieve his specific life goals because of these physical problems.

i do appreciate the primer because I do not understand how the mediaction works.[/quote]

I agree with you that these medications are massively over prescribed. As I stated above, I believe that a geat deal of other work must be done first for them to be effective in relieving depresion and not just making it easier to “ease the pain” by offing yourself. This is not being done in most cases it seems, part of our “a pill for everything” mentality that even healthcare professionals buy into.

We must stop taking the easy way out through pills alone and learn to work through the real issues that underlie the problem.

However, I must respectfully point out a few things. When you say anti-depresants go hand and hand with suicide, it does come off sounding as though as though you are discounting the numbers of people who kill (and in the past before drugs, killed) themselves quite nicely without drugs “helping” them. perhaps not your intent…

As to the reason the depression is there, yes it is in your head. Depression basically is a change “brain chemistry.” It comes from our internal components’ interactions with our external environment.

I personally have health problems which have shut down my goals not just in lifting and health but also in finances, family stability and all our futures. Is my current state of depression situational? Certainly.

It is also due to my biochemical reactions to the external stressors. I have a very low tolerance to psychosocial stress that has often led to depressive episodes and this massive assualt on me by circumstance is more than my body can deal with without exhibiting signs of depression, even with all the things I’ve learned to use to help: medication, supplementation, exercise, stretching, massage, diet, etc…

Just give me a huge sack of money to pay off all the bills that pile up when dealing with chronic pain issues, move, get the ball rolling again on my education and keep my health in better shape with top of the line treatments and “poof” the situation is better and the depression goes away.

Because the chemistry in my body will have altered, in response to a lessening of the massive stress reaction from my environment.

We experience EVERYTHING through the biochemistry of our bodies (that’s what we are after all biochemical reactions, whether or not you wish to add a “soul” or other component to it), why would depression be any different?

The book: WHY ZEBRAS DON’T GET ULCERS (3rd edition)by Robert Sapolsky is a great primer for understanding depression and other stress reactions by our bodies from our interactions with the environment. I can’t recommend it highly enough.

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
Kuz wrote:
my experience with counselors is that they have an almost universal tendancy to trivialize your goals… especially in the realm of physicality, the 40 year old across the room with a double chin and a spare tire around his waist can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to turn out like him at 5’10 200 lbs.

and 20% body fat… after all he’s within the “healthy” range right? these people think anything other than complacence is obsessive… [/quote]

I have to agree here. My experiences have been similar. I’ve had to learn to carefully analyze where I agree with the therapist or doctor and where you know they are out of touch. I’ve told doctors about the incredible fatigue, lethargy, pain intolerance, etc., that I’ve been having these past few years and the trivialize it with “your not 20 anymore” and other useless crap that gets me to thinking they really aren’t paying much attention to me at all…

It sounds to me like you have some toxic, mind altering chemicals in your system as a result of a biological imbalance right now.

I highly suspect that most people who commit suicide have high cortisol levels. Look for ways to control that.

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
i’ll pass on the professional “help”… i don’t want to rely on toxic mind-altering drugs to be happy. sorry to sound like a scientologist but i really dont want anything to do with a psychiatrist

[/quote]

[quote]MrChill wrote:
This might sound off-track, insensitive, and weird, but start looking for chemicals that you (unknowingly) react strongly to.

A summer a couple of years ago I ate tons of whey protein with aspartame in it. In retrospect, and by trial and error, I found out I reacted very strongly to aspartame. At one point I thought I had MS.

I had panic attacks, and had to be prescribed Paxil. At another point, I all of my joints started feeling painful (and, no, it was not from overtraining), and I thought I was starting to lose it for good … all this at 27.

I also thought I had a magnesium deficiency (a common symptom in depressed persons). Supplementing helped, but that wasn’t enough. I stopped all whey + supplements for a couple of weeks and it returned back to normal.

Never underestimate potential allergies or reactions to ‘everyday’ chemicals. Excitotoxins could be part of the problem.[/quote]

I already know what caused this and it has nothing to do with chemicals. The short version of the story is this:

Earlier this year I sought the care of a local podiatrist for a stubborn case of shin splints that wouldn’t resolve with rest. He diagnosed me with tendonitis of the tibialis posterior tendons and prescribed a massive pair of orthotics.

These were not the ordinary type of soft or semirigid arch supports you slip into your athletic shoes to run in. They were the most enormous, bulky, rigid things you could imagine; the type normally used to help patients with totally collapsed arches walk. They basically immobilize the midfoot, preventing any pronation whatsover, and shift bodyweight onto the heel. In restricting the motion of the foot they also restrict motion of the ankles, knees, hips, and back.

I was instructed to wear these devices for every step I took every day to take the tension off of the tendons and allow them to heal.

A very long story short, the orthotics didn’t work. I also did some time in full immobilization (casts), which didn’t work either. Between the casts and the orthotics, I developed a significant disuse syndrome- a severe weakening of my feet and lower legs. Subsquently, over the course of several months, my feet became utterly dependant on the external support. Every time I tried to walk in bare feet, the shin pain would return worse than before I had recieved treatment.

I eventually learned that I had been misdiagnosed by the podiatrist, and that the orthotics were totally inappropriate for someone like me with an anatomically perfect foot who doesn’t overpronate (I had already figured as much). In May I terminated my realtionship with the podiatrist, disgarded the orthotics, and started walking normally again. My plan was to regain the strength in my feet and legs by slowly and gradually building up walking distance in conjunction with doing strength and flexibility exercises.

After about a week, on impulse, I decided to try to run- in bare feet on grass. My feet and legs were still extremely deconditioned and not anywhere near ready for running, and I think I knew this, but I was too impatient and I didn’t appreciate the potential for harm that existed. That’s when I got hurt.

Huslinbriks, how can we best help you?

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
I don’t want to talk about my circumstances, but I’m wondering, is there anything that could drive you to commit suicide?
[/quote]

I think no… apart from somethink that really kill my capability of living.

I mean, i want to live not to survive… if i get a bad form of brain cancer for example i think i’ll quit all in a way on an other…

I’ve contemplated it before. After losing my mobility (completely tore a hamstring), breaking up with my girlfriend, having a cousin commit suicide, and then a grandfather die soon after… The list goes on and it all happened within a year. The depressive episode thereafter became so bad that it literally took conscious effort to breathe.

That’s when I managed to drag myself to the psychiatric walk-in clinic.

My first two weeks on cipralex were hell, but I am definitely the better for it. You have to be careful about mixing it with other things (a small amount of alcohol leaves me depressed, a cup of coffee will make me panicky, and Power Drive… Let’s just say that mixing Power Drive with your SSRI is bad for your blood pressure, driving habits, and social reputation among other things.

A drug alone will not “cure” depression. Just like any other drug (with the exception of antibiotics) it will simply mask the symptoms.

Taking an anti-depressant for depression is like taking tylenol for a headache. Your headache is gone, but your sinuses are still infected.

The chemical imbalance is improved, but the negative thinking patterns (which are completely understandable considering your circumstances) will still be present. The major benefit I noticed from cipralex was that when good things happened or I started thinking more positively, I was actually capable of feeling good about them.

When you’re depressed, your ABILITY to feel good about anything is blunted. It’s gotten to the point where you can’t simply “decide” to feel better when positive events and thoughts don’t feel good anymore. This is why I think outside help is warranted.

Whether or not you take an antidepressant, it would be best to get a psychologist to help you talk through your problems to establish new thinking patterns.

If your training pattern was giving you shitty results, you’d consult a strength coach to establish a better pattern, right?

Same diff.

Shitty thinking patterns, shitty results.

The antidepressant simply ALLOWS you to feel good about things when good things or thoughts happen. The rest of the work you’ll still have to do yourself and, just like any other pursuit, you’ll do a hell of a lot better with a qualified coach.

Other than that, I’ve also purchased an alpha-stim and it helps when I use it consistently.

Beef

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
i’m depressed as all fuck-balls and contemplate suicide all the time. I don’t think I could ever actually go through with it, because I’m too fucking chicken, and the truth is that i really don’t want to die. i don’t want to die but when your quality of life is ruined, maybe it’s just better end yourself.

I don’t want to talk about my circumstances, but I’m wondering, is there anything that could drive you to commit suicide?

there’s a lot of great stuff in the world to experience… but when you no longer have the ability to appreciate any of it, I can see why some people just prefer to off themselves![/quote]

I was in the same situation about 13 years ago. Hey, I still get depressed often enough. I thought and actually tried to kill myself, but in the midst of all of it, I was told about the love of God. I found God, by accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and He has shown me His perfect path of life ever since!

If you want to know more, PM me…

Life is too precious to throw away.

SteveO

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I was in the same situation about 13 years ago… but in the midst of all of it, I was told about the love of God. I found God, by accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and He has shown me His perfect path of life ever since!

SteveO[/quote]

Oh shit.

Here it starts.

Beef

Also, in my year of more serious training for whitewater kayaking I would get severe swelling and pain in the second knuckle of every one of my fingers. It happened after practices, races, the gym, whenever.

After a three-hour training session I would literally be unable to open my hands. It was like they were “welded” into the shape of holding a paddle shaft and I had to put them in warm water to get full mobility back.

I’d had lingering problems with finger-joint pain since my paddling career ended until I started taking a glucosamine-chondroitin combination supplement at the maximum recommended dosage. It took a couple weeks, but the pain eventually went away and now I can rock climb with very little trouble.

Also, I remember reading an abstract or an article a while back showing that people who ate 10g of hydrolyzed collagen per day showed signs of joint regeneration on an MRI scan after 12 weeks.

Fish oil’s good for the inflammation, too.

So, for physical symptoms I say:

Fish oil

Chondroitin & glucosamine

Hydrolyzed collagen (although I’ve heard gelatin is a popular joint-health aid, too)

An alpha-stim would also help with the psychological side-effects of physical pain.

Beef

Don’t give up… an example of current research:

Devgen drug candidates may promise breakthrough in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and other inflammatory diseases
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=157005
[i]
GHENT, Belgium, August 24, 2006 – Devgen (Euronext Brussels: DEVG) announced today that, following encouraging results from studies in animals, one of its preclinical programs may show promise for the treatment of inflammatory diseases.

Devgen scientists have discovered compounds that inhibit the secretion of specific hormones that are the primary cause of rheumatoid arthritis, an autoimmune disease that causes chronic inflammation of the joints.

A key competitive edge of the Devgen molecules is that they are small molecule drugs that can be orally administered. The current treatments are protein based therapeutics, applied by injection and are costly to produce. Hence, they are infrequently administered early in the development of the disease.

The value of biological drugs indicated for autoimmune diseases, which affect up to 5% of the world population, was roughly $11 billion in 2005.

“Finding orally active TNFa inhibitors is a ‘holy grail’ in inflammation research as it may provide patients with convenient, cost effective and hence earlier treatment options in the development of these progressive diseases” says Devgen CEO Thierry Bogaert. “Such inhibitors may furthermore be suitable for treating other inflammatory diseases including inflammatory bowel disease and multiple sclerosis”.

Devgen is progressing with the development of its novel inhibitors in additional preclinical models of inflammatory diseases and will conduct further studies to complete a preclinical and partnering package over the next 9 months.
[/i]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
huslinbriks wrote:
i’m depressed as all fuck-balls and contemplate suicide all the time. I don’t think I could ever actually go through with it, because I’m too fucking chicken, and the truth is that i really don’t want to die. i don’t want to die but when your quality of life is ruined, maybe it’s just better end yourself.

I don’t want to talk about my circumstances, but I’m wondering, is there anything that could drive you to commit suicide?

there’s a lot of great stuff in the world to experience… but when you no longer have the ability to appreciate any of it, I can see why some people just prefer to off themselves!

I was in the same situation about 13 years ago. Hey, I still get depressed often enough. I thought and actually tried to kill myself, but in the midst of all of it, I was told about the love of God. I found God, by accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and He has shown me His perfect path of life ever since!

If you want to know more, PM me…

Life is too precious to throw away.

SteveO[/quote]

SteveO,
Now, that was a nice post. You didn’t go off on or condemn him in any way,
yet.

VROOM, that’s rheumatism… totally different condition. Osteoarthritis is not an inflammatory disease

Suicide sucks balls. My Dad did it…and it fucked with my head ever seice I was 7. I’m 29 now .

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
VROOM, that’s rheumatism… totally different condition. Osteoarthritis is not an inflammatory disease[/quote]

http://www.arthritis.org/conditions/diseasecenter/oa/oa_overview.asp
[i]
There are several stages of osteoarthritis:

Cartilage loses elasticity and is more easily damaged by injury or use.

Wear of cartilage causes changes to underlying bone. The bone thickens and cysts may occur under the cartilage. Bony growths, called spurs or osteophytes, develop near the end of the bone at the affected joint.

Bits of bone or cartilage float loosely in the joint space.

The joint lining, or the synovium, becomes inflamed due to cartilage breakdown causing cytokines (inflammation proteins) and enzymes that damage cartilage further.

Changes in the cartilage and bones of the joint can lead to pain, stiffness and use limitations. Deterioration of cartilage can:

  • Affect the shape and makeup of the joint so it doesn?t function smoothly. This can mean that you limp when you walk or have trouble going up and down stairs.

  • Cause fragments of bone and cartilage to float in joint fluid causing irritation and pain.

  • Cause bony spurs, called osteophytes, to develop near the ends of bones

  • Mean the joint fluid doesn?t have enough hyaluronan, which affects the joint?s ability to absorb shock.

  • Result in inflammation.
    Osteoarthritis most commonly occurs in the weight-bearing joints of the hips, knees and lower back. It also affects the neck, small finger joints, the base of the thumb and the big toe. OA rarely affects other joints except when injury or stress is involved.

It is important that you take an active role in the treatment of your OA and in prevention of additional joint damage.
[/i]

Inflammatory processes plays a key role in many diseases. While it may not be part of the onset, it seems to be involved afterwards.

http://www.arthritis.ca/types%20of%20arthritis/osteoarthritis/default.asp?s=1

Osteoarthritis is classified as non-inflammatory arthritis. This suggests that there is no inflammation (swelling), but recent research shows that this is not true. Although there is usually no swelling in the early stage of the disease, as the arthritis progresses there can be inflammation. Bits of cartilage may break off and float around inside the joint. This disturbs other soft tissues inside the joint and can cause pain and swelling between bones. The result is you may have trouble moving the joint.

[quote]huslinbriks wrote:
hey guys, this is kind of a weird question to ask, but do you think people who commit suicide go to hell? i’m kind of confused about the whole religion thing, but assuming there is a God and a heaven/hell situation, do you think he sends suicides to burn?[/quote]

I am not really a christian, so my opinion might not count. Something along the lines of an agnostic pantheist would be more accurate.

I see hell as a manipulation device. Do things our way or suffer eternally. Is that something a loving and compassionate God would do? Even I have enough compassion to forgive, so how can I be more forgiving than God?

Besides the idea of hell (and heaven for that matter) is somewhat of a paradox. An endless repetition of pain will eventually make one numb to the ordeal. Of course its hard to know what hell would be exactly, but atleast if ours souls have human qualities, then any soul in hell would adapt. We need polarities to evaluate things. Can you appreciate food if you have never been hungry?

And as for taking your own life. Suicide in my eyes is not selfish, cowardly or an easy way out. Life has much to offer, but no one will know exactly what you are going through, so no one will be in a position to tell you what to do. Like I mentioned, we humans adapt, and so will you if you choose to hang around. Eventually the pain will become a routine and positive things will shine through.

A friend of mine has spent 7 years in considerable back pains and in poverty, but he is still around. I know its not easy on him and will never probably enjoy life to the extent that other people do, but I do know he has his good times as well. If he did commit suicide, I would not blame him for one minute, nor would I think that he was in hell for it. I would just drink a toast in his memory and wish him happier times on his next adventure.

  • POC

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I was in the same situation about 13 years ago. Hey, I still get depressed often enough. I thought and actually tried to kill myself, but in the midst of all of it, I was told about the love of God. I found God, by accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and He has shown me His perfect path of life ever since!

If you want to know more, PM me…

Life is too precious to throw away.

SteveO[/quote]

let him find God is own way, you shouldn’t try to push your concept of religion down his throat

anyways to the OP there’s this beautiful spanish movie you should see it’s called ‘mar adentro’

anyways I think people should have the right to chose when they want to end their lifes and they should have the right to die with dignity

but you should try all your other options because suicide will be the last card dealt

so to speak