hmmm…I think that your analogy is more akin to knowhow, since culture and being German is not in one’s blood (even if some like to think that) as is parenting.
Having said this, I do think someone who is a parent should and, on average, does know quite a bit more about it.
But I cannot see how that makes him automatically an expert. Or that he couldn’t be a lousy parent.
Would that be so, we wouldn’t have all those shitty parents and bad-mannered teens around.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
this is the response i gave awhile back on a similiar thread.
i was whipped as a child and all i learned was to not get caught when doing something wrong and that when i was big enough and strong enough i would put an end to it. the first person i ever knocked out was my father. i was 13 years old and he broke out the belt and started in on me and i finished it by knocking him out cold. luckily this was a turning point in our relationship and he soon learned that physical abuse only made me mean and full of rage. we now have more of a brotherly relationship.
I’m now a parent and have been an elementary school teacher for 12 years. I work in a school with a large population of low income and single family children. I’ve known many children that are beaten by their parents. I’m always amazed when i talk to a parent about a child’s behavior and they tell me “don’t worry… they will get a good ass whipp’n when they get home” It’s like they are bragging about their beating of some little kid. I often tell them that I’m not impressed. I can say from my experience that beating a kid NEVER improves behavior. Consistency improves behavior. As a teacher obviously i’ve never layed my hands on a student but often i get comments from parents that their kids listen to me but they won’t listen to them. the reason… I’m consistent. The kids respect me and they know they are safe with me. There’s also mutual respect.
As it pertains to my daughter. i knew the moment she was born that i would NEVER lay my hands on her other than to show her love and affection. Raising a child requires one to actually be involved in your child’s life. You have to be there every moment to lead them, protect them and love them. It’s all about love and being there through it all. [/quote]
Have you seen anyone here advocating “beating” their child?
Please identify where you are at in the parenting process.[/quote]
i can’t tell if you are being serious or not. [/quote]
I’m being completely serious. My post was not antagonistic at all BTW.
How many children do you have and what ages are they?
In my case I have a son and daughter, ages 23 and 20 respectively.
I never beat my kids. I did spank them. My laying a hand on them did not constitute a lack of love and affection.
I’m asking you and every other poster on this thread to lay out their experience as a parent as part of their post. It would be similar to a lifting thread where one would make it known if they were a beginner, intermediate or advanced lifter along with what your numbers are including poundages, bodyweight, years lifting, etc. When one gave advice or expressed a particular view on how to squat or deadlift, or how to make improvements to body composition etc. their level of experience could then be factored in.
For instance, I know for a fact I could come to you for lifting advice with complete confidence that you know what the hell you’re talking about. Your way wouldn’t be the only way and you would be the first one to admit that but nonetheless I KNOW I would be dealing with an experienced veteran in the world of weightlifting and could trust that nuggets of gold could be found in your words.[/quote]
i have a daughter that is six years old but i’ve also been in elementary education for 12 years and have taught thousands and thousands of children. During this time i have seen many different parenting styles.
I know were you stand on corporal punishment. It’s my professional opinion that corporal punishment doesn’t work and actually can and does have negative effects on children. I feel that there are far better ways to discipline a child without actually laying your hands on them.
i could give you example after example after example of the negative effects i’ve seen on children.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Also, why on earth would you, Bodyguard create this thread?
Most of the time, you are working hard on maintaining the forum badass image.
Which actually might be very true, but it still undermines the argument. [/quote]
Because I’m a loving parent.
And I don’t maintain any “image”. I am exactly who I am. Ask those who met me.
So the new math is “badass” = using corporal punishment upon your children[/quote]
Look, I gladly give you the benefit of a doubt. Let’s assume that your virtual you is like you.
Which is fine; I like to read your posts and think of you as a straight shooter.
But you still come off as a very violent man.
If parenting for you means no physicalities at any time, I ask myself why you come off as a most threatening individual, and very openly so (esp. with trolls) .
Let’s just call it a lack of imagination…
[/quote]
Seriously, I don’t want the benefit of the doubt. I’m not taking myself so seriously here these days. Those that know me, know. Those that don’t, who cares?
In many ways (socially) the “virtual” me is worse than the real me (I wouldn’t give half of you the time of day IRL), and in other ways, the real me is much worse than the “virtual” (because we don’t type in real life and when you have my attention, you have it).
I’ve lead a violent life but that doesn’t mean I like violence.
What does this have to do with raising your children? What does my familiarity with violence have to do with my chosen parenting style? I have two older boys that I NEVER spanked - not once.
What’s your point?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Another point:
The final result is not always THE only arbiter of the worthiness of corporal punishment.
What do I mean? It’s not just about “Well, he/she turned out alright and I did/didn’t spank.”
It’s also about the journey.
Was your kid(s) a pleasure to be around? Were they respectful and polite AS CHILDREN to both their parents and other adults? Were they difficult for their teachers? Did their grandparents cringe when you said you were dropping off the rug rats because they, the grandparents, knew it would be sheer hell while the kids were there? Did babysitters have a constant battle?
I could go on with a zillion examples.[/quote]
This is only partially true, I didn’t have children to raise perfect little soldiers. IMO if I they turn out respectful when given respect I have done my job. And yes my kids are a joy to be around, sometimes because of their spunk, sometimes in spite of it.
One of the aspects I have not seen mentioned, is what they are being taught about the acceptability of others laying hands on them. As a father of girls, I want them to know that it is not normal for someone you love to hit you, even if it is “for your own good”.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
… beating a kid NEVER improves behavior. Consistency improves behavior. [/quote]
This. This. THIS.
My wife and I were tirelessly RELENTLESS with monitoring and CONSISTENCY.
We also kept the display of our emotions out of the equation.
Yes, it was exhausting at times, but it worked so well that our son never even went through “the terrible 2s”.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
… beating a kid NEVER improves behavior. Consistency improves behavior. [/quote]
This. This. THIS.
My wife and I were tirelessly RELENTLESS with monitoring and CONSISTENCY.
We also kept the display of our emotions out of the equation.
Yes, it was exhausting at times, but it worked so well that our son never even went through “the terrible 2s”.
[/quote]
Again that is because of your awesomeness, I can be adopted for a fair cheap price and I am potty trained.
My twins boy and girl are 17. She is going to psu majoring in business as of now. He’s waiting on acceptances . He’s accepted at psu and has applied to columbia , lehigh, bucknell , penn, Hopkins , and Cornell. Planning to major in bioengineering.
They’ve never been in trouble with the law or school. They’re polite , respectful kids. They’ve helped organize a bus to take wwII vets to see the national monuments in DC the last two years.
They do some sports. They exercise .
And they had app ten swats on the rear the last being about ten years ago. Six years ago my son got a little mouthy and I picked him up in the air with my right hand and told him to knock it off. He stopped.
Whenever they have been punished they had the why explained later.
I’d say the most important thing was following through with a punishment when they broke the rules. It wasnt hard, it just took diligence.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
This is only partially true,
[/quote]
No, it’s 101% true and you know it. You’re throwing in the “partially” for the sheer sake of being contentious.
Did you see any hint of militarism in my post above? Or did you see me say that well behaved, non-contentious, non-bratty kids were pleasant to have around?
My hat’s off to you. But spanking isn’t for the “spunk” that many kids show from time to time. It’s for willful, defiant disobedience.
You understand this. Or you should regardless of your own personal practices. However, I suspect you’re one of the politically correct crowd that wants to redirect the conversation and consistently make it all about abuse. And of course you abhor abuse so therefore you don’t spank. Those who don’t virtuously abhor abuse like you…well…let’s just say those are the ones who spank, right?
Ahhhh…see what I mean? Redirection. Subtle redirection. Implications of abuse. Subtle implications and allegations of abuse. It’s a clever ploy but a little wisdom on the part of an observer sees it for what it is.
[/quote]
This may not apply to you, and I don’t think it does, but I have seen plenty of parents who have resorted more to hitting as they lose control. I’m not trying to paint with a broad brush everyone who spanks, but it is not always clear where the spankings end and the beatings begin. What is acceptable, hand, belt, bare-assed appliance cord? What happens when that no longer works?
As far as redirection in my last statement, no it’s not. The whole point of spanking is supposed to be about learning and keeping them safe isn’t it? When the most important people in their world teach them it is okay to be hit by someone who loves them, what do they learn? I may be wrong, but it seems there are more than a few people that stay in abusive relationships because it is the norm where they came from.
The last time my son got a whack on the rear was when I told him not to jump on that board because it has nails in it. I was cleaning up stuff and he was seven . Thirty seconds after I caught him jumping on it and he was told why I caught him doing it again. He got a whack. He learned a lesson that was "cheaper " than a nail through his foot.
It didn’t damage the kid and he understood exactly why he got the one smack on the rear. It was an immediate correction to his disregarding of my instruction and designed to teach him there are consequences to stupid decisions . He’s lucky if he got ten smacks on his rear in his life
.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
This is only partially true,
[/quote]
No, it’s 101% true and you know it. You’re throwing in the “partially” for the sheer sake of being contentious.
Did you see any hint of militarism in my post above? Or did you see me say that well behaved, non-contentious, non-bratty kids were pleasant to have around?
My hat’s off to you. But spanking isn’t for the “spunk” that many kids show from time to time. It’s for willful, defiant disobedience.
You understand this. Or you should regardless of your own personal practices. However, I suspect you’re one of the politically correct crowd that wants to redirect the conversation and consistently make it all about abuse. And of course you abhor abuse so therefore you don’t spank. Those who don’t virtuously abhor abuse like you…well…let’s just say those are the ones who spank, right?
Ahhhh…see what I mean? Redirection. Subtle redirection. Implications of abuse. Subtle implications and allegations of abuse. It’s a clever ploy but a little wisdom on the part of an observer sees it for what it is.
[/quote]
This may not apply to you, and I don’t think it does, but I have seen plenty of parents who have resorted more to hitting as they lose control. I’m not trying to paint with a broad brush everyone who spanks, but it is not always clear where the spankings end and the beatings begin. What is acceptable, hand, belt, bare-assed appliance cord? What happens when that no longer works?
As far as redirection in my last statement, no it’s not. The whole point of spanking is supposed to be about learning and keeping them safe isn’t it? When the most important people in their world teach them it is okay to be hit by someone who loves them, what do they learn? I may be wrong, but it seems there are more than a few people that stay in abusive relationships because it is the norm where they came from.[/quote]
[quote]tom63 wrote:
The last time my son got a whack on the rear was when I told him not to jump on that board because it has nails in it. I was cleaning up stuff and he was seven . Thirty seconds after I caught him jumping on it and he was told why I caught him doing it again. He got a whack. He learned a lesson that was "cheaper " than a nail through his foot.
It didn’t damage the kid and he understood exactly why he got the one smack on the rear. It was an immediate correction to his disregarding of my instruction and designed to teach him there are consequences to stupid decisions . He’s lucky if he got ten smacks on his rear in his life
.
[/quote]
I’m not trying to demonize everyone who chooses to go this route, and I understand that there may be a place for it and that it is not always damaging. Truthfully I came into my marriage with the same mindset. However, my wife was so strongly against it and after thinking it through I really couldn’t give a good defense for it.
It might not be necessary if you are very vigilant and always follow through. I didn’t use it much personally .
The last time my son got a whack on the rear was when I told him not to jump on that board because it has nails in it. I was cleaning up stuff and he was seven . Thirty seconds after I caught him jumping on it and he was told why I caught him doing it again. He got a whack. He learned a lesson that was "cheaper " than a nail through his foot.
It didn’t damage the kid and he understood exactly why he got the one smack on the rear. It was an immediate correction to his disregarding of my instruction and designed to teach him there are consequences to stupid decisions . He’s lucky if he got ten smacks on his rear in his life
.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
This is only partially true,
[/quote]
No, it’s 101% true and you know it. You’re throwing in the “partially” for the sheer sake of being contentious.
Did you see any hint of militarism in my post above? Or did you see me say that well behaved, non-contentious, non-bratty kids were pleasant to have around?
My hat’s off to you. But spanking isn’t for the “spunk” that many kids show from time to time. It’s for willful, defiant disobedience.
You understand this. Or you should regardless of your own personal practices. However, I suspect you’re one of the politically correct crowd that wants to redirect the conversation and consistently make it all about abuse. And of course you abhor abuse so therefore you don’t spank. Those who don’t virtuously abhor abuse like you…well…let’s just say those are the ones who spank, right?
Ahhhh…see what I mean? Redirection. Subtle redirection. Implications of abuse. Subtle implications and allegations of abuse. It’s a clever ploy but a little wisdom on the part of an observer sees it for what it is.
[/quote]
This may not apply to you, and I don’t think it does, but I have seen plenty of parents who have resorted more to hitting as they lose control. I’m not trying to paint with a broad brush everyone who spanks, but it is not always clear where the spankings end and the beatings begin. What is acceptable, hand, belt, bare-assed appliance cord? What happens when that no longer works?
As far as redirection in my last statement, no it’s not. The whole point of spanking is supposed to be about learning and keeping them safe isn’t it? When the most important people in their world teach them it is okay to be hit by someone who loves them, what do they learn? I may be wrong, but it seems there are more than a few people that stay in abusive relationships because it is the norm where they came from.[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I’m not trying to demonize everyone who chooses to go this route…
[/quote]
Yes, you are to a certain extent. It’s somewhat subtle but it’s there. I can post your quotes if need be. You and I both know where and how you did it.
[/quote]
Read into it what you want. I’ve already stated that I don’t think you likely go overboard.