[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
Here is a really cool Youtube-video explaining the effects of spanking/corporal punishment and the pro’s/ con’s
here are the references The Facts about Spanking - Freedomain – The no. 1 philosophy show online
[/quote]
Hmmmm
I always thought the reason why there was no physical violence among my siblings and I was because I was an awesome big sister. I guess it was the no spanking. :-/
[/quote]
You don’t have to spank because you are awesome. 
This seems a bit silly.
No one argues that beatings as the major way of disciplining a child is bad.
And if someone admits to using “beating” as a parental mode -as in: “do you beat your child?” Hell yeah!-
he’s an unsound parent.
An occasional spank at the right moment- that’s a whole different league.
Also, the vast majority of children don’t have to be spanked more then a few times - if at all.
(Those who really are malicious by nature, a tiny minority, probably won’t learn either way. Consider them a genetic tryout for uncivilized, savage times or leave them to the woods, spear in hands;)
Our western societies are so determined to view themselves as nonviolent and to condemn “brutality”, while little is made to really understand and accept violence as part of our animal heritage.
There might be few very distinct moments where your child might learn a lot from receiving a sharp slap instead of a stern sermon.
If you are a good parent, don’t let him miss that experience out.
Also, why on earth would you, Bodyguard create this thread?
Most of the time, you are working hard on maintaining the forum badass image.
Which actually might be very true, but it still undermines the argument.
To also comply with Push’s request, I am not a parent and have no “field experience”. However, judging on my own childhood, my parents never spanked me (my dad did threaten me with a belt once). My mom said she once spanked me so hard her handprint went through the diaper and it scared her so much she never hit me again. I was spanked by my babysitter though. Any punishment my parents gave me, depriving me of toys, TV, whatever, never worked. I just got around it. I figured out how long it took the TV to cool down so I knew when to turn it off before my parents got home. I learned how to sneak around and hide stuff from my parents. I can’t honestly remember when any punishment they inflicted worked. The spankings my babysitter gave me DID work. The last thing I wanted was to be swatted on the butt and stuck in the corner (the two always went together: spanking + corner) and away from the fun. Having said this, I will probably use a combination of both when I do have kids.
Green(?) Eyes,
I think this is a bit simplistic.
You’re implying to use spankings as a general tool since they worked with you and your parents never used them and their non-violent methods failed.
However, realize that your parents, from bad judgement, basically outsourced their natural punishment rights to an external guy.
You’ll never know how regular spankings would have worked for you, since your parents never had to deal with being the bad guys.
An external educator, who only did his job, with whom you did not bond as strongly did not have the power to cause you the emotional harm parents can cause if they lay their hands on their child.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Green(?) Eyes,
I think this is a bit simplistic.
You’re implying to use spankings as a general tool since they worked with you and your parents never used them and their non-violent methods failed.
However, realize that your parents, from bad judgement, basically outsourced their natural punishment rights to an external guy.
You’ll never know how regular spankings would have worked for you, since your parents never had to deal with being the bad guys.
An external educator, who only did his job, with whom you did not bond as strongly did not have the power to cause you the emotional harm parents can cause if they lay their hands on their child.
[/quote]
The name is grneyes. And my babysitter was a long time babysitter. I had been going to her house since I was 5 months old to the age of 12, Monday through Friday. She had four of her own kids plus up to 11 kids from infants to whatever my current age was (I was the oldest). I bonded to her and her kids. We are still friends, still send birthday and Christmas cards.
No, I will never know how regular spankings would have worked for me. I don’t think my parents outsourced anything. I think they decided, since my dad had been regularly whipped with a carriage whip and/or belt that they would not resort to similar techniques (spanking). Instead, when I was of proper age I got to decide my punishments and they would agree with or modify them.
Parenting is a learning experience and you have to tailor it to each individual kid. Some of the parents on here have shown that. I can say now how I will act, but I won’t be absolutely sure until I’m in a particular situation.
Well then, happy spanks!
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Does everyone fully understand the reason for my series of questions earlier?
Do I need to use a weightlifting/gym training analogy in order to make my point?[/quote]
I have a 10 year old boy (that I see on weekends) and a 14 month old girl.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Also, why on earth would you, Bodyguard create this thread?
Most of the time, you are working hard on maintaining the forum badass image.
Which actually might be very true, but it still undermines the argument. [/quote]
Because I’m a loving parent.
And I don’t maintain any “image”. I am exactly who I am. Ask those who met me.
So the new math is “badass” = using corporal punishment upon your children
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
To also comply with Push’s request, I am not a parent and have no “field experience”. However, judging on my own childhood, my parents never spanked me (my dad did threaten me with a belt once). My mom said she once spanked me so hard her handprint went through the diaper and it scared her so much she never hit me again. I was spanked by my babysitter though. Any punishment my parents gave me, depriving me of toys, TV, whatever, never worked. I just got around it. I figured out how long it took the TV to cool down so I knew when to turn it off before my parents got home. I learned how to sneak around and hide stuff from my parents. I can’t honestly remember when any punishment they inflicted worked. The spankings my babysitter gave me DID work. The last thing I wanted was to be swatted on the butt and stuck in the corner (the two always went together: spanking + corner) and away from the fun. Having said this, I will probably use a combination of both when I do have kids.[/quote]
but do the spankings IH gives you work?
this is the response i gave awhile back on a similiar thread.
i was whipped as a child and all i learned was to not get caught when doing something wrong and that when i was big enough and strong enough i would put an end to it. the first person i ever knocked out was my father. i was 13 years old and he broke out the belt and started in on me and i finished it by knocking him out cold. luckily this was a turning point in our relationship and he soon learned that physical abuse only made me mean and full of rage. we now have more of a brotherly relationship.
I’m now a parent and have been an elementary school teacher for 12 years. I work in a school with a large population of low income and single family children. I’ve known many children that are beaten by their parents. I’m always amazed when i talk to a parent about a child’s behavior and they tell me “don’t worry… they will get a good ass whipp’n when they get home” It’s like they are bragging about their beating of some little kid. I often tell them that I’m not impressed. I can say from my experience that beating a kid NEVER improves behavior. Consistency improves behavior. As a teacher obviously i’ve never layed my hands on a student but often i get comments from parents that their kids listen to me but they won’t listen to them. the reason… I’m consistent. The kids respect me and they know they are safe with me. There’s also mutual respect.
As it pertains to my daughter. i knew the moment she was born that i would NEVER lay my hands on her other than to show her love and affection. Raising a child requires one to actually be involved in your child’s life. You have to be there every moment to lead them, protect them and love them. It’s all about love and being there through it all.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
To also comply with Push’s request, I am not a parent and have no “field experience”. However, judging on my own childhood, my parents never spanked me (my dad did threaten me with a belt once). My mom said she once spanked me so hard her handprint went through the diaper and it scared her so much she never hit me again. I was spanked by my babysitter though. Any punishment my parents gave me, depriving me of toys, TV, whatever, never worked. I just got around it. I figured out how long it took the TV to cool down so I knew when to turn it off before my parents got home. I learned how to sneak around and hide stuff from my parents. I can’t honestly remember when any punishment they inflicted worked. The spankings my babysitter gave me DID work. The last thing I wanted was to be swatted on the butt and stuck in the corner (the two always went together: spanking + corner) and away from the fun. Having said this, I will probably use a combination of both when I do have kids.[/quote]
but do the spankings IH gives you work?
[/quote]
Apparently not.
I’ll have to turn the tension up on the nipple clamps, for sure, now. Maybe THEN she’ll learn not to make the bed while i’m in it.
For what it’s worth, Greeny and I have talked about this on more than a few occasions and we agree that spanking is to be done as a last resort. And, only then, between certain ages.
I’ll probably have a stroke when I hear that she’s pregnant, anyway. Then, I won’t have to worry about any of this mess.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Also, why on earth would you, Bodyguard create this thread?
Most of the time, you are working hard on maintaining the forum badass image.
Which actually might be very true, but it still undermines the argument. [/quote]
Because I’m a loving parent.
And I don’t maintain any “image”. I am exactly who I am. Ask those who met me.
So the new math is “badass” = using corporal punishment upon your children[/quote]
Look, I gladly give you the benefit of a doubt. Let’s assume that your virtual you is like you.
Which is fine; I like to read your posts and think of you as a straight shooter.
But you still come off as a very violent man.
If parenting for you means no physicalities at any time, I ask myself why you come off as a most threatening individual, and very openly so (esp. with trolls) .
Let’s just call it a lack of imagination…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
this is the response i gave awhile back on a similiar thread.
i was whipped as a child and all i learned was to not get caught when doing something wrong and that when i was big enough and strong enough i would put an end to it. the first person i ever knocked out was my father. i was 13 years old and he broke out the belt and started in on me and i finished it by knocking him out cold. luckily this was a turning point in our relationship and he soon learned that physical abuse only made me mean and full of rage. we now have more of a brotherly relationship.
I’m now a parent and have been an elementary school teacher for 12 years. I work in a school with a large population of low income and single family children. I’ve known many children that are beaten by their parents. I’m always amazed when i talk to a parent about a child’s behavior and they tell me “don’t worry… they will get a good ass whipp’n when they get home” It’s like they are bragging about their beating of some little kid. I often tell them that I’m not impressed. I can say from my experience that beating a kid NEVER improves behavior. Consistency improves behavior. As a teacher obviously i’ve never layed my hands on a student but often i get comments from parents that their kids listen to me but they won’t listen to them. the reason… I’m consistent. The kids respect me and they know they are safe with me. There’s also mutual respect.
As it pertains to my daughter. i knew the moment she was born that i would NEVER lay my hands on her other than to show her love and affection. Raising a child requires one to actually be involved in your child’s life. You have to be there every moment to lead them, protect them and love them. It’s all about love and being there through it all. [/quote]
Have you seen anyone here advocating “beating” their child?
Please identify where you are at in the parenting process.[/quote]
i can’t tell if you are being serious or not.
And I skipped through the youtube clip.
Clearly, someone who regularly beats his child, be it by handslap or by cane, doesn’t matter - is a loser -parentally and integritywise.
And just like with the studies, it’s crystal-clear that bad parents are often the one who beat the kids more.
You might easily say, the more someone beats his kids, the worse he probably is a parent.
So there is a definitive causal connection.
But that doesn’t disprove the potentially good effects of very-well timed and placed beatings, if the child really deserves so. And it’s so especially because it should be NOT the norm.
Beating/Spanking out of habit, frustration, anger is something entirely different.
Push,
I don’t believe it has much to say if one is an actual parent or not.
In some families, you are around children all the time, and some fathers, esp. the ones who are shitty parents, seldom see their offspring. Which is probably the norm today.
Also, raising and taking care of children and setting good examples seems pretty natural to me.
In contrast to lifting weights (your example)