Constructive Solutions...

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

…that no one will pay attention too.

Per JeffR:
I was wondering if anyone had some constructive suggestions on how to deal with this growing threat.

I’m very nervous as the backdoor is wide open (russia) in case of sanctions.

Iraq isn’t ready to confront them militarily.

The international community (france) is not serious about confronting the issue.

We have a-thingy threatening to destroy Israel and the U.S.

This frightens me.

Valid issues we have to deal with.
What would you do to fix it. So far we have the bomb Isreal, fuck America crowd, and the anihalate the entire ME crowd and most of us who sit in the middle and really want to end the shit in the ME, at least as it is a treat to U.S, Western Zionistic pigs.
So I'll start with some things I think we can do to at least speed up the end of the Iraqi conflict.
1) We (our soldiers) need to dress and blend in with the public. Right now, we're like the red coats. We might as well wear bullseyes. Also we should utilize their vehicals and armor them. 
In other words we need to be hard targets to find.
2) close the borders to Syria and Iran completely. Air patrol the borders as well. This will reduce infiltration. 
3) Hit the known insurgent locations hard and mercilessly, now, not later.
4) Assisnate Al Sadr, his cronies and like minded Imams.

Will it solve the problems, not all, but it will help. We all want to leave, but we can't leave it as is. We have to leave it in some orderable control.

Next thing we need to do is start pulling our money out of the ME. You want to see panic! That will do it more than any war will.
2

[quote]pat36 wrote:
…that no one will pay attention too.

Per JeffR:
I was wondering if anyone had some constructive suggestions on how to deal with this growing threat.

I’m very nervous as the backdoor is wide open (russia) in case of sanctions.

Iraq isn’t ready to confront them militarily.

The international community (france) is not serious about confronting the issue.

We have a-thingy threatening to destroy Israel and the U.S.

This frightens me.

Valid issues we have to deal with.
What would you do to fix it. So far we have the bomb Isreal, fuck America crowd, and the anihalate the entire ME crowd and most of us who sit in the middle and really want to end the shit in the ME, at least as it is a treat to U.S, Western Zionistic pigs.
So I'll start with some things I think we can do to at least speed up the end of the Iraqi conflict.
1) We (our soldiers) need to dress and blend in with the public. Right now, we're like the red coats. We might as well wear bullseyes. Also we should utilize their vehicals and armor them. 
In other words we need to be hard targets to find.
2) close the borders to Syria and Iran completely. Air patrol the borders as well. This will reduce infiltration. 
3) Hit the known insurgent locations hard and mercilessly, now, not later.
4) Assisnate Al Sadr, his cronies and like minded Imams.

Will it solve the problems, not all, but it will help. We all want to leave, but we can't leave it as is. We have to leave it in some orderable control.

Next thing we need to do is start pulling our money out of the ME. You want to see panic! That will do it more than any war will.[/quote]

My 2 cents:

1.  Quit worrying about what the international community thinks(we will have to bail them out when the islamofacists take Europe anyways, they won't stand up to them, they didn't stand up to the Nazi's(except England) so you know they don't have the balls to stand up to this movement).
2.  Punish all terrorist activity and those that support it with force, Airpower.  Quit trying to fight a humane war with an extremely inhumane enemy.  Don't fight a war you don't plan on winning decisively.  Same shit that is happening now in Iraq was happening after WW2 and whenever an allied soldier was killed we would pull out and shell the city.  The Nazi sympathizers got the point quickly.

3.  Quit trying to reason with terrorists and hoping they come around.  Punish bad behavior don't appease it, we need Churchill not Chamberlain.  We will not wish this enemy away, they are already too strong and growing too fast.  We will never win the hearts and minds, it is their religous duty to hate us.  We must understand this.

4.  Find another Reagan, who can win this war with limited, if any, casualties by the real threat of force not these timelines of appeasement the Bush administration gives these savages.  There is only one way to stop this shit, our forefathers understood it, Churchill understood it, Reagan understood it.  A bunch of college no-it-all hippies don't understand it.  The way to stop it, is to stop it in the infant stages before it festers out of control and it is getting that way.  The way to limit casualties on both sides in the long run is not to draw it out and hope they come around, but to send a clear and distinct message that we will not stand for this bullshit anymore.
3

Pat,Jumper:

Thanks for this thread.

In my opinion, this next election hinges on the War on Terror. People are going to have to look at which candidate is serious about this issue.

Iraq does take precedence. I like the surge coupled with attacking the militias (finally). I like the arresting of the iranian nationals (with their iranian flag flying).

Finally, I agree with your assertions that this has to be aggressively pursued.

Sadly, George is not the man to take the next step. He’s allowing others to define the course of the conflict.

I look forward to Rudy leaning on this problem. He needs to aggressively drive the agenda in the press (like billy boy).

Some of my ideas are pulling back to regional bases in each major quadrant of Iraq. Being available for short campaigns.

I don’t favor moving out of Iraq completely. I like the idea of a buffer between iran and the rest of the region. It doesn’t have to be a huge force.

JeffR

4

Just don’t mention Israel in any other capacity except as a helpless, faultless victim of mean ol’ [Iran, Syria, Lebanon] or he’ll take his ball and go home.

Iran, who as of yet has no nuclear weapons, needs to be taken out by Israel (the victim), with nuclear weapons. Otherwise the “madmen” will get nuclear weapons and absolutely use them on someone or give them to terrorists (in the future).

Why, anyone with half a brain would know a strike on Iran would CERTAINLY ease the tensions in the Middle East. We need to build on the successes of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

That’s why we didn’t attack Iran at the very beginning – we had to achieve several smaller successes before we moved onto to the “big fish”. Well, that and because IRAN had nothing to do with 9/11 – it would have been just plain silly to try and link 9/11 to IRAN.

No, if Iran refuses to quit it’s ambitions for nuclear power (under the supervision of the IAEA) then the only SMART choice is to attack and HOPE it goes only half smoothly as our adventure Iraq. (Which technically would be BETTER than Iraq since Iran is about 3X bigger)

5

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Just don’t mention Israel in any other capacity except as a helpless, faultless victim of mean ol’ [Iran, Syria, Lebanon] or he’ll take his ball and go home.

Iran, who as of yet has no nuclear weapons, needs to be taken out by Israel (the victim), with nuclear weapons. Otherwise the “madmen” will get nuclear weapons and absolutely use them on someone or give them to terrorists (in the future).

Why, anyone with half a brain would know a strike on Iran would CERTAINLY ease the tensions in the Middle East. We need to build on the successes of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

That’s why we didn’t attack Iran at the very beginning – we had to achieve several smaller successes before we moved onto to the “big fish”. Well, that and because IRAN had nothing to do with 9/11 – it would have been just plain silly to try and link 9/11 to IRAN.

No, if Iran refuses to quit it’s ambitions for nuclear power (under the supervision of the IAEA) then the only SMART choice is to attack and HOPE it goes only half smoothly as our adventure Iraq. (Which technically would be BETTER than Iraq since Iran is about 3X bigger)

[/quote]

Hey Justtheantisemite, excuse me, I mean Justthefacts, you know as well as I do the president of Iran refuses to acknowledge the holocaust and has threatened the extinction of the Jews and when he is capable he will attempt it, hopefully us or the Isrealis drop him off a little package before that happens. The Isrealis do not target civilians, the other guys do, and you know this. The Isrealis would love to live in peace with the Arab world, but they can’t, they have to fight for there own existense over there. You know as well as I do the Arabs are not to honor any peace agreements with the “non-believer”, they won’t do it, they are forbidden to.

While the Iranians celebrated in the streets on 911 burning our flag, while 3000 of our brothers and sisters, CIVILIANS, burned, the Irealis wept and prayed for us. There is no reason for me to argue with someone like you, you hate Jews, America, capitalism, yadayadayada. What should we do, bow down to maniacal ME leaders after 911?
They chant death to America and Isreal in the streets and then when they don’t follow international law and the powerless international community does nothing, we have to, because we cannot afford to have 911s anymore.

6

[quote]jumper wrote:
Hey Justtheantisemite, excuse me, I mean Justthefacts, and a bunch of crap… [/quote]

I think you just proved his point.

7

Election hinges on war on terror? I think you give the general population to much credit. I’d say most people don’t care. The Iraqi insurgent debacle fucked that all up. We Americans, being the kind hearted folk we are cannot stomach preemtive strikes.
What the election yeilds is still probably going to hinge on the economy as it always seems to.

8

[quote]jumper wrote:

Hey Justtheantisemite, excuse me, I mean Justthefacts, you know as well as I do the president of Iran refuses to acknowledge the holocaust and has threatened the extinction of the Jews and when he is capable he will attempt it, hopefully us or the Isrealis drop him off a little package before that happens.
[/quote]

Quite regurgitating the lies spoon-fed to you by the government-media complex.

That is just an outright lie. The Palestinians and Lebanese know all to well that your statement is false.

Once again, you’re incorrect. Click below to see Israelis living with their neighbor in peace…whilst using them for target practice.

http://globalresearch.ca/audiovideo/Gaza_women_shot.WMV

[quote]
While the Iranians celebrated in the streets on 911 burning our flag, while 3000 of our brothers and sisters, CIVILIANS, burned, the Irealis wept and prayed for us. There is no reason for me to argue with someone like you, you hate Jews, America, capitalism, yadayadayada. What should we do, bow down to maniacal ME leaders after 911?
They chant death to America and Isreal in the streets and then when they don’t follow international law and the powerless international community does nothing, we have to, because we cannot afford to have 911s anymore. [/quote]

I can’t imagine why they don’t like us?

http://www.bushflash.com/3.html

At least they were all terrorists!

How many more terrorists have we “made” because of our actions in Iraq?

Dustin

9

[quote]jumper wrote:
Hey Justtheantisemite, excuse me, I mean Justthefacts, you know as well as I do the president of Iran refuses to acknowledge the holocaust and has threatened the extinction of the Jews and when he is capable he will attempt it.Hopefully us or the Isrealis drop him off a little package before that happens. The Isrealis do not target civilians, the other guys do, and you know this. The Isrealis would love to live in peace with the Arab world, but they can’t, they have to fight for there own existense over there. You know as well as I do the Arabs are not to honor any peace agreements with the “non-believer”, they won’t do it, they are forbidden to.

While the Iranians celebrated in the streets on 911 burning our flag, while 3000 of our brothers and sisters, CIVILIANS, burned, the Irealis wept and prayed for us. There is no reason for me to argue with someone like you, you hate Jews, America, capitalism, yadayadayada. What should we do, bow down to maniacal ME leaders after 911?
They chant death to America and Isreal in the streets and then when they don’t follow international law and the powerless international community does nothing, we have to, because we cannot afford to have 911s anymore. [/quote]

Couple of points:

  1. Again, as I’ve stated many times but you guys don’t realize, the president of Iran is a FIGUREHEAD. He does not possess any power and has no authority to order any type of military strike.

Israel isn’t worth a single American soldier dying for.

  1. The Israelis don’t target civilians? hahahahahaha. Ask Amnesty International about that. The Israelis are the dirtiest SOBs in the world when it comes to targeting civilians. Remember the shelling of the BEACH this summer? Or how about indiscriminate shooting of Palestinian civilians (including schoolkids) that happen on an almost daily basis in the West Bank (funny how our sorry media never reports these).

  2. You are a moron if you think the Iranians celebrated in the streets after 9/11. They held candlelight vigils attended by thousands and thousands throughout their cities for us. Do a search on the net- there are tons of pics and stories of these. The general Iranian population (99% of them) is very pro-Western.

10

You guys really should read this abstract by two of the leading political scientists in the country, Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Walt of Harvard. Funny how not a single American publishing house would print their report. Wonder why…:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

11

Few notes, somebody stated Iran had nothing to do with September 11th, neither did Iraq, President Bush stated this in an interview. I think twelve out of eighteen of the supposed hijackers were Saudis, wonder why we aren’t there. Quite frankly we need to quit worrying about what world opinion is and just bomb the shit out of these morons, and stop getting our troops killed and pissing away all our money so that it will take three generations to pay our already nine tirllion dollar debt.

Stop letting these little shithole third world countries think they can make demands and threats, honestly, turn Iran into a crater before they even come close to developing ICBMs. Then tell North Korea that they WILL disarm and end their program within a week, or they’ll wind up the same. It’s time we set an example, let’s go back to the big stick policy. When the holy land is a radiated hole in the ground, let’s see how tough the terrorists are, let’s see how many countries threaten us then. Another note; somebody said something along the lines of an embargo with the middle east, hate to tell you but we get very little oil from them. The majority is actually purchased from Venezuela.

“He who gives up liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.”

  • Benjamin Franklin
    Stop changing our ways of life, stop giving up our rights. This is letting these dickheads win a greater war than attacking us, we have to stand tall and realize that living your life based on a fictional color that FOX news tells us is horse shit. We’re Americans, we’re free, and we’re proud to live free.

Lastly, don’t be afraid to criticize our own actions. Speak up, think outside the box, voice your opinions, this is what induces your vote to actually count, this is what makes our federal republic more like a democracy. Stop watching the news like a drone, read the paper, read foreign news, get a different perspective, make an informed, unbiased, decision. I don’t care if you’re Democrat, Republican, Independent, Socialist, whatever, we’re all Americans, let’s all get back on the same side and fight this together, let’s better ourselves together.

12

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:

  1. Again, as I’ve stated many times but you guys don’t realize, the president of Iran is a FIGUREHEAD. He does not possess any power and has no authority to order any type of military strike.
    [/quote]
    It does not matter. He is the voice for those he represents. If he was proclaiming view oppossing those he represents he’d be gone quick.

Most conflicts are in fact stupid or started from stupid reasons. The palistinians are worth pissing on either, but we put up with their crap none the less. Actually more people are dying because we (the U.S. and allies) are trying to find an amicable solution for both sides. I say let them duke it out. It wasn’t palistinian land prior to 1967 any damn way so really thay are ahead of the game as it is. But alas, the palstinians do not want their own land, they want thier own land with Jeruselum as it’s capitol. That’s why none of this “Road map to Peace” crap will ever work. The Palistinians don’t want any old piece of dirt, they want the piece of dirt named Jesruselem as they belive it is their divine right.
Again, let them duke it out fair and square, who ever wins the war gets the land, just as it has always been through out history.

I don’t see any evidence that they directely target civilians. They certainly won’t let civilians get in the way of a mission. They are a bit more ruthless than the U.S., but of course every inch of their borders are occupied by people who hate them and want them dead and gone, so I can’t say I would be anyless ruthless. I do hate to see innocent people die no matte what. But it pisses me off way more when the target is innocent people. I concider that different. The palistinians target civilains directely. Actually, they often avoid military targets to get to the civilians. That’s pretty fuckin’ dirty too. Justifying terrorism because “Israel done bad things too” is stupid. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

No, it was the Palistinians who celebrated in the streets the day after 9/11. There was a breif moment of solidarity between the poeple of Iran and U.S. citizens. But I doubt very seriously 99% are prowestern. The Islamic revolotion and subsequent hostage taking in 1979, pretty much insured a permanent rift between the U.S. and Iran. I am pretty sure, most Iranians hate our guts.

13

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
You guys really should read this abstract by two of the leading political scientists in the country, Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Walt of Harvard. Funny how not a single American publishing house would print their report. Wonder why…:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html[/quote]

Oh I aggree 100% that this idea of spreading democracy through out the ME is idiotic on a grand scale. That is not the same as saying the good ol’ Middle East are really our good buddies and there is no problem there.
There is still a large radical factions operating in the middle east and supported and by governments and idividuals through out the region. This has to be dealt with. Doing it properly is the hard part. It’s easy to blow shit up, blowing the right shit up is what needs to happen. We need to take this battle and move it underground. We aren’t going to make much headway with CNN broadcasting our every move. Besides if you take the propaganda game out of it, we have the upper hand.

14

[quote]pat36 wrote:
But I doubt very seriously 99% are prowestern. The Islamic revolotion and subsequent hostage taking in 1979, pretty much insured a permanent rift between the U.S. and Iran. I am pretty sure, most Iranians hate our guts.
[/quote]

The Iranian Revolution was not a religious revolution. They revolted against the Shah because he was a dictator, not because they wanted a religious government. For the 6 months after the Shah was overthrown Iran was a complete democracy…but then the mullahs took over by force and established a complete police state, which is the only way they retain power.

One of my buddies married a Persian (Iranian girl) and has been to Iran twice. Their popular culture is completely American-based. They watch our movies, listen to our music (particularly rap- go figure) and for some reason (probably because over 1 million Persians live in Los Angelas) are hardcore Lakers fans. Anyhow, my buddy had some serious reservations about going there but came back saying he had the time of his life and was treated like a rock start simply because he was an American. He also said he went to some of the best parties he’s ever been to there. They are completely infatuated with us but are controlled by a totalitarian government.

In last week’s Sports Illustrated (or maybe 2 weeks ago) there’s an article about our national wrestling team going to Iran. The article was full of qoutes from our wrestlers about how they were treated like celebrities by the Iranians and never heard a single anti-American sentiment.

15

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:

The Iranian Revolution was not a religious revolution. They revolted against the Shah because he was a dictator, not because they wanted a religious government. For the 6 months after the Shah was overthrown Iran was a complete democracy…but then the mullahs took over by force and established a complete police state, which is the only way they retain power.

One of my buddies married a Persian (Iranian girl) and has been to Iran twice. Their popular culture is completely American-based. They watch our movies, listen to our music (particularly rap- go figure) and for some reason (probably because over 1 million Persians live in Los Angelas) are hardcore Lakers fans. Anyhow, my buddy had some serious reservations about going there but came back saying he had the time of his life and was treated like a rock start simply because he was an American. He also said he went to some of the best parties he’s ever been to there. They are completely infatuated with us but are controlled by a totalitarian government.

In last week’s Sports Illustrated (or maybe 2 weeks ago) there’s an article about our national wrestling team going to Iran. The article was full of qoutes from our wrestlers about how they were treated like celebrities by the Iranians and never heard a single anti-American sentiment.

[/quote]

I would argue against the 1979 revolution not being and islamic revolution because that is what it is called by name.

As for Iranian popular culture, you are probably right as I have no personal experience with it. At least I hope your right.

16

It is called the “Islamic Revolution” because that’s what their government became. The people who initially took over were very secular, Western-educated guys who planned to establish a true democracy. Then Khomenei and his thugs took over by force and established a police state and systematically killed off anyone who opposed them.

17

[quote]Dustin wrote:
How many more terrorists have we “made” because of our actions in Iraq?
Dustin[/quote]

Answer: None.

I’ll agree we may have sped up the process, but those who are terrorists are such because of their fundamentalist teachings - their stage presence is inevitable.

18

[quote]pat36 wrote:
…that no one will pay attention too.

Per JeffR:
I was wondering if anyone had some constructive suggestions on how to deal with this growing threat.

I’m very nervous as the backdoor is wide open (russia) in case of sanctions.

Iraq isn’t ready to confront them militarily.

The international community (france) is not serious about confronting the issue.

We have a-thingy threatening to destroy Israel and the U.S.

This frightens me.

Valid issues we have to deal with.
What would you do to fix it. So far we have the bomb Isreal, fuck America crowd, and the anihalate the entire ME crowd and most of us who sit in the middle and really want to end the shit in the ME, at least as it is a treat to U.S, Western Zionistic pigs.
So I'll start with some things I think we can do to at least speed up the end of the Iraqi conflict.
1) We (our soldiers) need to dress and blend in with the public. Right now, we're like the red coats. We might as well wear bullseyes. Also we should utilize their vehicals and armor them. 
In other words we need to be hard targets to find.
2) close the borders to Syria and Iran completely. Air patrol the borders as well. This will reduce infiltration. 
3) Hit the known insurgent locations hard and mercilessly, now, not later.
4) Assisnate Al Sadr, his cronies and like minded Imams.

Will it solve the problems, not all, but it will help. We all want to leave, but we can't leave it as is. We have to leave it in some orderable control.

Next thing we need to do is start pulling our money out of the ME. You want to see panic! That will do it more than any war will.[/quote]

I am wondering exactly how much you understand about the situation over there at all.

Do you realize the amount of troops that it would take to do half of what you just suiggested?  This country has not been asked to sacrifice...at all. Anywhere.  It's civilians have not been called to service, and people are whining when gas prices go up.  

"Closing the borders" is not possible with 120,00 troops.  To suggest that we do all of that, along with assassinating their leaders, is to suggest going into a full scale war with an entire section of the world, and would need every man in this country to serve in order to do it. I don't believe that you are saying that you want this kind of war- but that is what it would become.  Quickly.

Fighting this kind of war in Vietnam took over 500,000 troops, and that was in a smaller area that was not nearly as sensitive as the middle east, and, more importantly, had no oil.

There is no military action that is going to end the problems there.  Our troops have gone from being the liberators to becoming the occupiers.  The only solution for the ME is diplomacy, and the solution for Iraq is (hopefully) Petraeus' plan.  However, I do not think he has enough soldiers...and do Iraq will, inevitable, slide deeper and deeper into war, most likely resulting in secession, and therefore the dissolving of the country.
19

Lol, thanks for giving me a good laugh. A right wing wacko and his version of history, well well…

20

O-State:

Seems to me that OFTEN in history there is a “disconnect” between a people and their Government.

Great post!

Mufasa